Atheism

Originally posted by Deadline
Its is though. You may have heard the story about a Jewish man in a Nazi concentration camp. He asked God to help him but because nothing happened he stopped believing in God. There are lots of people like that, maybe soimething traumatic happened to them so they don't believe in God and they don't give a **** about life. There lack of belief in God will affect everything they do in life. They may decide to basically get high and get drunk because they don't see the point in life or not having serious relationships. Now I'm not saying that this is right or all atheists think like that but atheists like that do exist and that is a belief system.

Im' pointing out that just because something isn't written doesn't mean its not a system. Some things are informal and unofficial.

I know. My point isn't that atheism is a belief system. My point is that you can have an atheistic belief system. [/B]

Originally posted by 753
No, that's depression, not a belief system.

A system implies a network of interconnected beliefs shaping an individual's world view, it doesnt matter how formalized it is. The reason atheism is not a system is that it is a single isolated belief or lack thereof.

You can be an atheist and have any kind of belief system incorporating atheism into it, if that's what you mean.

Oh God now hes stalking me.

Originally posted by Deadline
Oh God now hes stalking me.

^ Who is this guy? 😕

Originally posted by Deadline
^ Who is this guy? 😕

Originally posted by Deadline
^ Who is this guy? 😕

He raises valid points, why do you think he's stalking you?

He has posted in this thread over 30 times and the first time over 20 pages ago, I don't think he visits this thread to stalk you.

Originally posted by Bardock42
He raises valid points,

Not really and I could easily respond to his points but I dont think its worth my while. That doesn't mean that because I don't respond to a post I'm ignoring a poster but in his case I am.

Originally posted by Bardock42

why do you think he's stalking you?

He has posted in this thread over 30 times and the first time over 20 pages ago, I don't think he visits this thread to stalk you.

Hes not stalking me persay. I just ignored one of this post he made in the GDF and he went straight to this post. Hell he may not be, I wasn't really serious.

Originally posted by Deadline
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Pillars_of_Islam

There you go. See how Sunnis and Shia disagree on the fundamentals.

well, yes, but that would be because Shias and Sunnis have different belief systems within the framework of islam...

The same as how catholics and protestants disagree about the Pope or transsubstantiation

753 covered the other points well

Oh I just noticed how 753 after bothering to read my post edited it. Not that there is anything wrong with editing your post but that the exact argumentative crap I'm talking about. Posters who are so hellbent on being correct that can't even be arsed to read the post.

lol

Originally posted by inimalist
well, yes, but that would be because Shias and Sunnis have different belief systems within the framework of islam...

The same as how catholics and protestants disagree about the Pope or transsubstantiation

Well you said they didn't disagree on fundamental points they do. Sorry it just sounds like you're explaining why they do but that doesn't change the fact that they do.

Originally posted by inimalist

753 covered the other points well

Some of them.

Originally posted by 753
[B ]No, that's depression, not a belief system [/B]

Not at all. Certain belief systems can make you have a postive outlook on life and some can give you a negative outlook life. Just because a belief system makes you act 'depressed' doesn't mean that the belief system is depression. Furthermore in that example the Jewish man had a bleak outlook on life because he didn't belive in God. Thats a belief system that makes you act depressed.

You also don't have to be depressed to have that type of lifestyle.

Originally posted by 753

A system implies a network of interconnected beliefs shaping an individual's world view, it doesnt matter how formalized it is. This has nothing to do with the point though, inimalist was taking issue with the idea that any given atheist's individual belief system should be identified as an 'atheist belief system', when it would simply be 'a' belief system, a random one, that just happens to be atheistic.

I'm not sure how that changes anything. An athiest can have an individual athiestic system I don't think I denied that. Its still a belief system. However I'm not talking about belef systems were atheism is just a part of it.

Originally posted by 753

You can be an atheist and have any kind of belief system incorporating atheism into it, if that's what you mean.

When I say an athiestic belief system I mean a belief system were a disbelief in God is an important part of it or the most important part, like the example I gave. I don't mean a belief system were athiesm just happens to be part of it.

I'm making this post for inimalist to reply to by the way.

Originally posted by Deadline
Well you said they didn't disagree on fundamental points they do. Sorry it just sounds like you're explaining why they do but that doesn't change the fact that they do.

yes, they do, hence why they are considered two versions of the same religion

this isn't the "gotcha" moment you think it is, in fact, that Sunni and Shia are considered two sects of Islam actually confirms my initial point, religious groups rarely disagree on fundamental issues, if they do, they become two groups

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, they do, hence why they are considered two versions of the same religion

Right.

Originally posted by inimalist

this isn't the "gotcha" moment you think it is,

Don't see where thats coming from I thought we were having a discussion.

Originally posted by inimalist

in fact, that Sunni and Shia are considered two sects of Islam actually confirms my initial point, religious groups rarely disagree on fundamental issues, if they do, they become two groups

Actually I could probably give you examples of Sunni muslims disagreeing with other Sunni muslims about the fundamentals as well so its not actually rare. Actually from my experience it happened all the time. In some cases they would be considered to be outside the fold of Islam.

Other points? The rest of my post was aimed at you not 753.

Originally posted by Deadline
Actually I could probably give you examples of Sunni muslims disagreeing with other Sunni muslims about the fundamentals as well so its not actually rare. Actually from my experience it happened all the time. In some cases they would be considered to be outside the fold of Islam.

yes, and there are distinct groups within Sunni Islam

my point is, when these disagreements come up, if they can't be reconciled, there become 2 seperate groups

Originally posted by inimalist
yes, and there are distinct groups within Sunni Islam

Ok but my point is that some sunni muslims consider certain groups to be non-muslim. I'm just pointing out there is alot of disagreement on core issues.

Originally posted by inimalist

my point is, when these disagreements come up, if they can't be reconciled, there become 2 seperate groups

Ok you initially said that religous groups don't disagree on core issues. I don't see how pointing this out furthers that point.

Originally posted by inimalist

not really. There are contensious issues within each system, but fundamentally, there is agreement on core issues. Whether or not morality is subjective, in most systems of belief, is pretty fundamental.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok but my point is that some sunni muslims consider certain groups to be non-muslim. I'm just pointing out there is alot of disagreement on core issues.

Ok you initially said that religous groups don't disagree on core issues. I don't see how pointing this out furthers that point.

I wouldn't define the entire faith of Islam as a single religious group, nor has anything I said indicated this

Originally posted by Deadline
Not at all. Certain belief systems can make you have a postive outlook on life and some can give you a negative outlook life. Just because a belief system makes you act 'depressed' doesn't mean that the belief system is depression. Furthermore in that example the Jewish man had a bleak outlook on life because he didn't belive in God. Thats a belief system that makes you act depressed.

You also don't have to be depressed to have that type of lifestyle.

If you're trying to argue that Atheists are more depressed than members of religions, I severally doubt that the statistics would support that.

Originally posted by inimalist
I wouldn't define the entire faith of Islam as a single religious group, nor has anything I said indicated this

Sometimes I use words incorrectly. Substitute the word group for the correct defintion.

You were arguing that within religons or sects they don't disagree on core issues. What I'm saying to you is that this was your initial point I think its incorrect due to reasons given and I don't see how pointing out that disagreements causing splits furthers your initial point.

Originally posted by King Kandy
The Jewish man had a bleak outlook on life because he was in a concentration camp during the holocaust.

Ok whats your point?

Originally posted by King Kandy

If you're trying to argue that Atheists are more depressed than members of religions, I severally doubt that the statistics would support that.

Yes thats exactly what I'm trying to argue when I specifically stated thats what I wasn't trying to do.

Originally posted by Deadline
Furthermore in that example the Jewish man had a bleak outlook on life because he didn't belive in God. Thats a belief system that makes you act depressed.

Originally posted by Deadline
Ok whats your point?

You said he was depressed because he didn't believe in god and ignored that he was in a concentration camp, something that makes a lot of people depressed.