Originally posted by Mindset
If she had a gun in her purse and was willing to use it, do you think escalating the situation by punching her in the face was smart?
Better that than waiting for her to draw the fictional gun, ya think?
Or hey, cops could just let people who carry guns on them get away with anything they want.
Questions: Was the girl wrong for not cooperating with the officer? Was the second girl wrong for assaulting the officer?
Originally posted by Rogue JediSo he had to choose between punching her in the face or waiting for her to draw a gun?
Better that than waiting for her to draw the fictional gun, ya think?Or hey, cops could just let people who carry guns on them get away with anything they want.
Questions: Was the girl wrong for not cooperating with the officer? Was the second girl wrong for assaulting the officer?
Yes, I guess they could.
Yes, and he was wrong for punching her in the face.
Originally posted by Mindset
So he had to choose between punching her in the face or waiting for her to draw a gun?Yes, I guess they could.
Yes, and he was wrong for punching her in the face.
OK.
He had to defuse the situation as quickly as possible. He chose to punch her. Not what I would have done, but he did what he did, and he was well within his rights doing so.
Nice, let the outlaws run shit then?
No he most certainly was not. He was assaulted and fought back. What if the cop had been a woman and the suspect a man?
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Ok, but he chose to punch her. Taking her down by force, he is risking bodily injury to her.What if's are everything here. Cops have to deal with shit like this:
And this
And this:
Yeah, I know, the guys in the vids are crazy drugged up assholes, but how was the Seattle cop to know that the lady didn't have a gun in her purse?
He found himself in a pressure situation, he acted, that's it.
No, the what if's you are presenting have no bearing on what was happening. You are talking about high speed chases and driving away from a speeding ticket when nothing of the sort happened here. These are not valid or reasonable comparisons you are making.
And punching someone and then ignoring them isn't going to stop them from pulling a gun. If she had a gun she still had ample time to use it after being punched. It seems he just wanted to get her away from him, so pushing would have done that just as well as punching.
Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
A police officer can't put their hands on you for just any reason. They can attempt to stop you, or talk to you
So the girl doesn't wan a ticket, and refuses to stop and hand over her ID, and just keep walking how is the police officer supposed to give the caution? OBVIOUSLY if she's ignoring the cop , he has to physically restrain her in order to serve her with the ticket doesnt he?
Is this such a hard concept to grasp? i mean really?
Originally posted by BackFire
No, the what if's you are presenting have no bearing on what was happening. You are talking about high speed chases and driving away from a speeding ticket when nothing of the sort happened here. These are not valid or reasonable comparisons you are making.And punching someone and then ignoring them isn't going to stop them from pulling a gun. If she had a gun she still had ample time to use it after being punched. It seems he just wanted to get her away from him, so pushing would have done that just as well as punching.
I see, so it's more like this then:
lENpsFyUNOc&feature=related
Punching, pushing, whatever, she fought the law and the law won. You do NOT put your hands on a police officer, not ever, not if all they are trying to do is detain you.
She would have just let the two girls walk away, authority slapped back down infront of a crowd, thequestion is WHAT THE HELL ELSE could he have done? He either uses physical force to restrain a woman who DOES NOT want to be restrained - whilst trying not to physically imjure her - which you can bet your ass is damn hard to do. OR letthem go and 'ask them to stop ' which OBVIOUSLY would not work. This is such a female response that the male was being overly aggressive.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
I see, so it's more like this then:lENpsFyUNOc&feature=related
Punching, pushing, whatever, she fought the law and the law won. You do NOT put your hands on a police officer, not ever, not if all they are trying to do is detain you.
No it was nothing like that, because there was no gun involved in the situation and the people being arrested were not hidden from view in a car. And again, punching someone in the face and then promptly ignoring them is not going to somehow magically disarm them. If anything it's going to provoke them into using said weapon. He acted recklessly and just put himself in more danger acting that way.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
What would you have done if you were the cop?
Well, for starters, I probably wouldn't have decided to try and arrest a girl for jaywalking, and then held the girl down by her neck and caused the other to get freaked out and try to push at me.
And there are a lot of ways that it could have been handled better. Simply shoving her off, or holding her arms, calling for a partner...something simple - and non-violent - would have more than sufficed. Punching her in the face should never have crossed the cop's mind. Cops are supposed to defuse the situation, not escalate it.
Originally posted by Juk3n
She would have just let the two girls walk away, authority slapped back down infront of a crowd, thequestion is WHAT THE HELL ELSE could he have done? He either uses physical force to restrain a woman who DOES NOT want to be restrained - whilst trying not to physically imjure her - which you can bet your ass is damn hard to do. OR letthem go and 'ask them to stop ' which OBVIOUSLY would not work. This is such a female response that the male was being overly aggressive.
It is not hard at all to restrain someone without punching them in the head.
Sexist comments like that are not called for. Most people think that the way the cop acted was out of line, because it was.
Originally posted by Peach
Well, for starters, I probably wouldn't have decided to try and arrest a girl for jaywalking, and then held the girl down by her neck and caused the other to get freaked out and try to push at me.And there are a lot of ways that it could have been handled better. Simply shoving her off, or holding her arms, calling for a partner...something simple - and non-violent - would have more than sufficed. Punching her in the face should never have crossed the cop's mind. Cops are supposed to defuse the situation, not escalate it.
You really think he set out to arrest her right away? You think he grabbed her and got physical with her right off the bat?
I ask again. What if the cop was a woman and the jaywalker a man? What then?
Originally posted by Peach
Well, for starters, I probably wouldn't have decided to try and arrest a girl for jaywalking, and then held the girl down by her neck and caused the other to get freaked out and try to push at me.And there are a lot of ways that it could have been handled better. Simply shoving her off, or holding her arms, calling for a partner...something simple - and non-violent - would have more than sufficed. Punching her in the face should never have crossed the cop's mind. Cops are supposed to defuse the situation, not escalate it.
you saw him shove the friend off, she came back multiple times, holding her arms AND the arms of the arrestie aswell? lolwut? He had no partner.
So please for the sake of my limited intellect, i'll give you a situation and someone, ANYONE put yourself in the cops place and tell me how to get the arrest.
1. Ypu stop a girl for a petty crime
2. She does not stop and refuses to hand over ID and starts to walk away.
3. You grab her by the arm and she pushes you off and continues to walk away.
4...?
You HAVE to get the arrest, what do you do. *stipulations If you touch the girl again her friend will help in trying to release her from yor grip both grabbing you atnd her friend at the same time. WELL?
Originally posted by PeachIt is not hard at all to restrain someone
with ANOTHER fully grown heavy set woman physically interferring? Are you quite sane?
Could you explain the logistics of that to me? getting the cuffs on one person with another person fighting against you? WITHOUT getting physical with either of them? Lolwut?
Originally posted by Juk3n
you saw him shove the friend off, she came back multiple times, holding her arms AND the arms of the arrestie aswell? lolwut? He had no partner.So please for the sake of my limited intellect, i'll give you a situation and someone, ANYONE put yourself in the cops place and tell me how to get the arrest.
1. Ypu stop a girl for a petty crime
2. She does not stop and refuses to hand over ID and starts to walk away.
3. You grab her by the arm and she pushes you off and continues to walk away.
4...?You HAVE to get the arrest, what do you do. *stipulations If you touch the girl again her friend will help in trying to release her from yor grip both grabbing you atnd her friend at the same time. WELL?
What's with you and RJ just making up situations that have nothing to do with what actually happened. And worse, making up stipulations like it's some game show or something. Good lord.
Originally posted by BackFire
What's with you and RJ just making up situations that have nothing to do with what actually happened. And worse, making up stipulations like it's some game show or something. Good lord.
thats exactly what happened , did you watch the video? OBVIOUSLY he wanted to caution the girl and she refused to stop..why ELSE would he have grabbed her in the first place?
Originally posted by BackFire
No it was nothing like that, because there was no gun involved in the situation and the people being arrested were not hidden from view in a car. And again, punching someone in the face and then promptly ignoring them is not going to somehow magically disarm them. If anything it's going to provoke them into using said weapon. He acted recklessly and just put himself in more danger acting that way.
In the vid, the cops are at the car talking to the guys inside, then BLAM BLAM BLAM.
This situation could have very well been the same.
I'll say this. I don't think the officer used excessive force. I do believe he used very ineffective force.
Me? I would have forced her to the ground and cuffed her. There is just as much room for bodily injury to her, perhaps even more, but it doesn't look as bad.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
You really think he set out to arrest her right away? You think he grabbed her and got physical with her right off the bat?I ask again. What if the cop was a woman and the jaywalker a man? What then?
Actually, if you bother to actually read anything about this case, that is exactly what happened. The first girl did not step over to the police car immediately when asked, and the cop dragged her over - twice - and was holding her down by her neck.
Also, probably nothing at all, because I've never once heard of someone getting even a warning of the "crosswalk is over there" sort for jaywalking.