Vaapad the deadliest, formIII the most likely to survive, juyo the most intense, formII the most eloquent and refined, etc.
Being deadliest does not equate to being superior, the most deadliest form is not the most likely form to triumph, win, or survive. Is it the most accurate, vicious, swiftest, powerful of all the forms? No. A different form trumps it in each regard, as well as each form being superior to it in many varying regards.
Being the most deadly combatant in an arena does not equate to being the best combatant, one who is faster negates that deadly aspect. Same with some one who is far more skilled, technically refined would negate that deadliness, and this can be applied to any viewpoint.
No where in canon is vaapad stated as being the superior form, is it the deadliest? Yes it is, just as each form is the epitome of a certain aspect. Is it stated in canon anywhere that the concept of deadly is equated with being most superior? No. Only in the reality of your paradigm.
Originally posted by Board WalkerDid you forget what thread you're in?
Vaapad the deadliest, formIII the most likely to survive, juyo the most intense, formII the most eloquent and refined, etc.
Take that here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t533913.html
Originally posted by Galan007
Did you forget what thread you're in?Take that here:
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f6/t533913.html
This topic pertains to questions about makashi, and vaapad as well as the other saber styles are in context to makashi of the paradigm of understanding saber combat and its varying nuances as a whole. So did I forget what thread I am posting in? No, did you?
Vaapad was specifically named after a predator known for it's speed.
Vaapad is the fastest lightsaber form. Vaapad is the deadliest lightsaber form. Vaapad requires the most skill in order to master. Vaapad is the most erratic and unpredictable for opponents to counter lightsaber form.
Conclusion? Vaapad is the superior lightsaber form. Period.
Originally posted by Board WalkerHeh, yet you mention (in unison) the exact same forms being debated in that thread... I'm sure you can understand the confusion.
This topic pertains to questions about makashi, and vaapad as well as the other saber styles are in context to makashi of the paradigm of understanding saber combat and its varying nuances as a whole. So did I forget what thread I am posting in? No, did you?
Anywho, nothing seems to be getting through to you. You had an opinion already set in your mind from page 1, and despite numerous statements/excerpts posted from canon sources, your opinion has remained completely unchanged. Thus I personally see no reason to respond to your questions here any further.
👆
Originally posted by ares834
I was wondering where was Juyo said to be an incomplete form? I seem to recall reading that some where but it may have been from the Wook.
"Also the nickname it is, given by students, for the seventh form of lightsaber combat."
"Hmph. I've always heard there are only six."
"Six there were, for generations of Jedi. The seventh... is not well known. A powerful form it is. Deadliest of all... But dangerous it is-to its master, as well as its opponent. Few have studied. One student alone to mastery has risen."
Juyo was so incomplete that it was virtually unknown. Mace takes it and refines it to perfection, calling his variant Vaapad.
I think what what may be getting to you, is not that my opinion is unchanged, but rather that my opinion has not shifted to one that is similar to yours.
My opinion and view of the forms has changed very much so, as I have assimilated portions of many varying paradigm from the myriad of users which have posted in this thread.
I also would like to thank you Galan for the knowledge, and insight I have incorporated from your posts, thank you.
Originally posted by Galan007
"Because so few have achieved the necessary mastery to advance form VII, this discipline can only be regarded as under development to a select few, and forbidden to all others." - Jedi vs. Sith
Originally posted by Galan007
Yet Palpatine is the one who gave out first, not Mace...
Which is illogical, and thus proves that Palpatine threw the fight.
Juyo was so incomplete that it was virtually unknown. Mace takes it and refines it to perfection, calling his variant Vaapad.
No. Your quote fails to substantiate that Juyo is an incomplete form as you claim, it merely states that there are few who actually use it. You can have a complete form and have few users of it. Moreover, as the Wookie page states, Masters discourage use of it because of its aggresive style, and is therefore unlikely to be taught as part of combat training, which furthermore obscures the form.
Originally posted by EnyalusIt says "under development to a select few" and by this is means the said few are developing their skills in it. This makes sense in the context of the quote as well.
My sock account, Galan, provided the quote I was looking for immediately after my post.
Originally posted by Shoes
That means they had already "developed" Juyo, and continuing to "develop" Vaapad.
The quote, "under development to a select few" was in reference to Juyo, as it is listed in the Form VII, Juyo section in Jedi vs. Sith. Juyo was under development. By Mace. Who perfected it and called the addition/variation Vaapad.
Originally posted by ares834
Vaapad was already around well before Mace. 😖hifty:
Originally posted by ares834
Also I still think "under develpment to" they were developing their own skills in it rather than developing the form itself.
"...this discipline can only be regarded as under development to a select few."
They were speaking about the form being under development. Here's how it goes:
31 BBY: Form VII Juyo is incomplete and being developed fully by Sora Bulq, Depa Billaba and Mace Windu.
22 BBY: Form VII's variant, Vaapad, has been completed and mastered by Mace and Depa.
Inbetween 31 and 22 BBY, Juyo was completed and added to in order to create the variant, Vaapad.
Meaning that the Juyo which Maul and Sidious practiced would more than likely be considered inferior to Vaapad as a form in and of itself due to its incompleteness, unless the Rule of Two had a swordsman somewhere down the line who developed Juyo to the fullest on his own. But we have no evidence for believing that...