Ganondorf(tp) vs. Hylden Lord(BO2)

Originally posted by Burning thought
Above is also true, Ganons never been displayed to be able to do so. If Zant has more capability, or his overall knowledge of his own twili world is in effect then it makes sense he may be able to do more with Ganons power than Ganon can in these cirumstances.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Am only up to date on some of Ganon's recent feats. Though if he can I'm puzzled to why everyone brings ups Zants feats to talk about Ganon's if he has his own. Twilight thing can be done by Twili as they don't have enough power, Zant happened to become the strongest now and is able to. Not that Ganon can do it whenever he want, never been displayed or hinted to.

If so, every thread he's been teamed up with Link in, he wins by giving Link the power to cause airborne AIDS. 😐 Also, immunity. And it's instant death. uhuh

Looks like, from Midna and other Twili, that its a Twili thing. (and the world being their home makes it sounds about right) Eg Dormant. It wouldnt be the first time in fiction that a character has gotten unique or unlocked powers from someone else.

Lol didn't mean he can give any power he wishes. But nice plan.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
You should never talk about a game you haven't played. 😐 Zant had no powers, nothing. No magical abilities. All of that came from Ganon. Can Ganon give someone else a power he can't give himself?

So your a massive troll, parrot, fallacious and poor debator and hopeless fanboy and now your a hypocrite "sigh", again.....the irony!

Pure electricity by itself cannot create images, but if put through a TV, the TV can project images...see what I did there? 😉

Originally posted by Burning thought
So your a massive troll, parrot, fallacious and poor debator and hopeless fanboy and now your a hypocrite "sigh", again.....the irony!

Pure electricity by itself cannot create images, but if put through a TV, the TV can project images...see what I did there? 😉

Its a great example because Ganons the source of power and Zants a completly different character with unique background. Hes called down twilight and Ganon has not, therefore we cannot claim Ganon can just because hes the source of power just like I cant claim electricity can toast bread by itself or create images like a TV can with its source.

Your damn skippy electricity can toast bread. 😐 Among other things.

You're now claiming Ganon is electricty and Zant is a tv which is a horrible example. Zant's power is Ganon's power. He cannot do somethign that Ganon cannot anymore than Ganon can do something the ToP cannot.

The TV's power is also the Toasters power, same power (electricity), different effects, abilities etc.

Ofc this is basic, Zant and Ganon are far more unique than electrical appliances therefore even more chance of varied use of a single power is more likely.

Ganon can do things the ToP cannot, he can run, walk around and percieve his environment. Also I dont know for sure but does ToP have sentience? my point being is that the ToP is just another source of power, it cannot do as much by itself without an owner than that owner can do when using its power.

I really can't believe you just argued that. That is amazing.

Ganon can give powers he can't use. Neat.

He can give a power source, just not powers. Nothing says the specific abilities Zant gains are Ganons, only the power is from Ganon. Theres a difference. A good example is Kain gave the dark gift to his vampire sons yet what powers it gave them are diverse and until now when Kain regains the fragments of his soul, he never had them when he gained them. All the same source:Kain, many different effects...

''Ganon can give powers he can't use. Neat.''

Would be the first fiction to do so. And its not really 'give a power away' its more unlocking via power amp.

Ditto to above as well. Its not really that hard to understand but then again.....

Originally posted by BloodRain
''Ganon can give powers he can't use. Neat.''

Would be the first fiction to do so. And its not really 'give a power away' its more unlocking via power amp.

Personally I think that the idea of Zant being able to use a power with Ganon as his powersource, but Ganondorf being unable to replicate it, is a really stupid idea that speaks volumes about the person who would even suggest such a thing.

But hey that's just me.

Btw that was supposed to be *Wouldn't* as in its been done before. Which it has, like this.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Youve shown me something thats not useful for your claim 3 times, because we dont know how they were defeated. By the looks of it, they were transformed where they stand and they did not realise anything was going on before they were transformed. Hence why the power is several times useless in a VS, 1. too slow and 2. it does not seem to work, or not as well on entities privy to the twilight cloud.

1. Why is it not useful? I have shown you soldiers, Gorons, monsters, and plant monsters being affected by twilight, yet you continue to fall back on a few soldiers that weren't even covered, despite me showing you more soldiers that were affected.

2. Twilight is not slow. It took less than a second with Lanayru.
YouTube video

0:47

Its been shown, you dont remember a few pages back the Lord teleporting in seconds, in comparison to twilight call down taking 4 seconds? (according to you, but tbh I wont even check, thats still too long).

1. You mean the one where he has to stand with his arms stretched to his sides, leaving himselff vulnerable?

YouTube video

3:40

2. Watch it again, that's less than a second.

Thats twilight coming back after the light spirit in that area was vanquished. Zant did not show any indication of casting it again, only taking away a protection that area had.

1. The Light Spirit had already gotten rid of the twilight. It came into existence right after Lanayru was defeated.

2. Zant called it as Lanayru was defeated, and it was instant.

It would mean that shes refering to her home being in perpetual twilight. Technically shes fallible at that point because she does not know how long the merge will last, either way obviously it was not perpetual as it was stopped.

1. She comparing them. Why would she say her own was perpetual if it was normal to her? Hyrule isn't normal covered in twilight.

2. Perpetual until stopped by an outside force, obviously. If nothing had been done, do you think the twilight would have lifted itself?

3. It doesn't need to last long. A few seconds is all Ganondorf will need.

😆 igorance ftw, when did they have hold a 20+ second conversation? if he transforms into Ganon then hes lost half his powers because from what weve seen its almost purely a physical entity, usually incredibly slow and cumbersome. Well I dunno, maybe being more magically resistant than normal soldiers for starters....dodging entirely or killing Ganon before he gets off the slow cast being another. But youve yet to prove Ganon can cast the spell...

YouTube video

8:19

1. My mistake. Kain began absorbing Raziel's soul at 8:19 and Raziel managed to get free at 8:47. I got that wrong, since it was actually more like 28 seconds and it wasn't even successful.

2. Ganon retains the ability to teleport and open portals in Beast form, and the magic wall he puts up stays there.

3. Show me the Hylden Lord being magically resistant to anything.

You said 4 seconds for hyrule to be covered not me, I think its probably longer. Your refering to after the twilight being called, only returning after spirits have been removed 😛

1. If I said that, I'm now correcting myself. Less than a second.

2. Your point? There is no Light Spirit here, so it can be called instantly.

Yes, Zant states that when hes using TK...and overpowering Midna, he never claims that merging dimensions was possible if he was not a twili, or that Ganon could do the same which he has not done. The same source of power does not always give the same ends.

1. What part of "This is the magic of my god," do you not understand?

YouTube video

1:30 onwards.

2. Hold on,
YouTube video

5:00

YouTube video

Read from 1:50 to 2:30. Ganondorf was feeding on the Twili and it's rather obvious he picked some things up. Take the mist like thing he does at 3:30, for instance. It's obviously twilight influenced, as are the portals he uses in the Ganon fight. The barriers that Ganondorf uses, such at the one at 4:00, are also used whenever Shadow Beasts appear, though Ganondorf's are yellow rather than red.

3. Zant gets his power from Ganondorf, and Ganondorf uses several twilight inspired abilities. It's clear that Ganondorf gave them to Zant.

Ganons minions, not Ganon himself. I cant imagine why the King of evil with all his forces would break a mirror, only to run around placing them here and there and assuming he did thats still not evidence he resisted mind control or possession, you would have to prove the magic shards react the same way as it looks to me like Ganon has some control over them as I assume its him that puts them in the entities that have become evil to attack link?

1. Good point, congratulations. Ganondorf does have some minions.

2. Bad point, sorry. You've said yourself that having power over something doesn't grant an immunity.

3. Nuetral point, whatever. The Sages state that the Mirror has terrible power, and mere fragments are powerful enough to make these monsters. Ganondorf took the brunt of the Mirror's power and was sent to the Twilight Realm for his trouble, but remained himself despite that.

Then maybe you should not argue points not meant for you, it can confuse a conversation.

Why haven't you dropped this one yet?

1. Nah

Get a better argument that "nah." I've shown you the video, why do you continue this denial?

2. Nope, youve proven twilight can return fairly quickly after being initially cast. Which takes 4 seconds+

Better. And no, that's only the small cloud. I've also proved that the large scale lasts much longer.

3. I admit that part of the post was more hinted at the other thread although to answer, all light can push back darkness, even a lightbulb. Twilight is not even full darkness.

Not all light can push back magical darkness, and not all magical light can push back magical darkness. This point is irrelevant anyway.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
Except it really isn't. 😐 The example BT used was so faulty and horrible as to be hilarious. 😐 Comparing a person to a toaster is freakin' terrible. Zant has no powers that Ganon doesn't. It would be impossible for him to do so, since his powers come from Ganon.

Originally posted by BloodRain
Btw that was supposed to be *Wouldn't* as in its been done before. Which it has, like this.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Personally I think that the idea of Zant being able to use a power with Ganon as his powersource, but Ganondorf being unable to replicate it, is a really stupid idea that speaks volumes about the person who would even suggest such a thing.

But hey that's just me.

IMO, it depends.

If Ganondorf shared a small portion of his own powers with Zant, then yes, Ganondorf should have no problem replicating feats that Zant performed.

If Ganondorf just gave him power with which Zant can use his own abilities (i.e. Ganondorf's power is fuel), then I don't think it's for certain that Ganondorf can replicate Zant's feats.

Which is it?

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
IMO, it depends.

If Ganondorf shared a small portion of his own powers with Zant, then yes, Ganondorf should have no problem replicating feats that Zant performed.

If Ganondorf just gave him power with which Zant can use his own abilities (i.e. Ganondorf's power is fuel), then I don't think it's for certain that Ganondorf can replicate Zant's feats.

Which is it?

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
I'm not even sure why it matters in this thread, as Ganondorf crushes the Hylden lord anyway. 😐 But it is repeated many times in TP, Zant's power comes from Ganondorf, without it Zant is powerless. 😐

Well, the LoK supporters keep trying to say that Ganondorf shouldn't be able to replicate Zant's feats, and you guys say that Ganondorf should be able to. srug

Zant being powerless without Ganondorf's power could prove either of the two situations I brought up. It could be that Ganondorf simply provides the fuel with which Zant performs those feats, or it could be that Ganondorf has granted Zant those very abilities.

Originally posted by Demonic Phoenix
Well, the LoK supporters keep trying to say that Ganondorf shouldn't be able to replicate Zant's feats, and you guys say that Ganondorf should be able to. srug

Zant being powerless without Ganondorf's power could prove either of the two situations I brought up. It could be that Ganondorf simply provides the fuel with which Zant performs those feats, or it could be that Ganondorf has granted Zant those very abilities.

Originally posted by The Scenario
1. Why is it not useful? I have shown you soldiers, Gorons, monsters, and plant monsters being affected by twilight, yet you continue to fall back on a few soldiers that weren't even covered, despite me showing you more soldiers that were affected.

2. Twilight is not slow. It took less than a second with Lanayru.
YouTube video

0:47

1. You mean the one where he has to stand with his arms stretched to his sides, leaving himselff vulnerable?

YouTube video

3:40

2. Watch it again, that's less than a second.

1. The Light Spirit had already gotten rid of the twilight. It came into existence right after Lanayru was defeated.

2. Zant called it as Lanayru was defeated, and it was instant.

1. She comparing them. Why would she say her own was perpetual if it was normal to her? Hyrule isn't normal covered in twilight.

2. Perpetual until stopped by an outside force, obviously. If nothing had been done, do you think the twilight would have lifted itself?

3. It doesn't need to last long. A few seconds is all Ganondorf will need.

YouTube video

8:19

1. My mistake. Kain began absorbing Raziel's soul at 8:19 and Raziel managed to get free at 8:47. I got that wrong, since it was actually more like 28 seconds and it wasn't even successful.

2. Ganon retains the ability to teleport and open portals in Beast form, and the magic wall he puts up stays there.

3. Show me the Hylden Lord being magically resistant to anything.

1. If I said that, I'm now correcting myself. Less than a second.

2. Your point? There is no Light Spirit here, so it can be called instantly.

1. What part of "This is the magic of my god," do you not understand?

YouTube video

1:30 onwards.

2. Hold on,
YouTube video

5:00

YouTube video

Read from 1:50 to 2:30. Ganondorf was feeding on the Twili and it's rather obvious he picked some things up. Take the mist like thing he does at 3:30, for instance. It's obviously twilight influenced, as are the portals he uses in the Ganon fight. The barriers that Ganondorf uses, such at the one at 4:00, are also used whenever Shadow Beasts appear, though Ganondorf's are yellow rather than red.

3. Zant gets his power from Ganondorf, and Ganondorf uses several twilight inspired abilities. It's clear that Ganondorf gave them to Zant.

1. Good point, congratulations. Ganondorf does have some minions.

2. Bad point, sorry. You've said yourself that having power over something doesn't grant an immunity.

3. Nuetral point, whatever. The Sages state that the Mirror has terrible power, and mere fragments are powerful enough to make these monsters. Ganondorf took the brunt of the Mirror's power and was sent to the Twilight Realm for his trouble, but remained himself despite that.

Why haven't you dropped this one yet?

Get a better argument that "nah." I've shown you the video, why do you continue this denial?

Better. And no, that's only the small cloud. I've also proved that the large scale lasts much longer.

Not all light can push back magical darkness, and not all magical light can push back magical darkness. This point is irrelevant anyway.

1. FMV contradicts, and we dont see how they were affected do we. We actually see these men, for all we know the soldiers and Gorons were showing me took a very long time, standing in twilight for it to effect them ,or they were nto aware.

2. Countered in the other thread, probably this one as well.

1. There you go again, "has to", where are you getting that from? the Sarafan lord had no reason to attack Kain therefore he had no weapon out, not even the reaver which he seems to be able to instantly call to his hand out of thin air. Far faster than Ganon.

1. Right back into excistence without its protection.

2. Show me Zant calling it? I dont recall him doing anything but standing there as the twilight returned since it was already across the world at that point. Already in the world after 6-16 second cast and effect.

1. No but her home is normal to her, her home is in perpetual twilight therefore she sees no reason why no other are should be. Cearly. Still fallible.

2. Neither of us can assume whther it would have stayed or that Zant/Ganons power would have had a limit to how long they could keep the two dimentions merged.

3. It takes 16 for Zant to bring twilight into the world....let alone Ganon whos not even done it before. Not to mension the twilight realm is not in this verses. A few seconds is all the hylden lord will need 😉

1. I answered this in the other thread as well, thats not the soul reaver ,thats the blood reaver.

2. Depends what "form" he takes, if he can takes the Boar ive not seen it do anything but run around, if he takes the OoT one all ive seen it do is create some fields to keep Link in and swing swords , all of them seem to take time and are larger or more cumbersome than his Ganondorf form.

3. Cant find the vid 🙁 , but the point remains, normal men can stand immune therefore its slow ass effect is no worry to the Lord.

2. Prove Zant called it there and it did not just come back because he called it across the world earlier. Technically twilight is already merged, it takes the spirits to push the twilight back but Zant beat it, so....the twilight came back. Your claim now is that Zant summoned a seperate area of twilight again?

1. I never said I did not understand that the TK he was using to overpower Midna was Ganons power....I never argued that did I?

Ok so, he gained some powers from the twili, so your admitting the twili have powers of their own then? powers Ganon may not have gained. You cant assume he can do what Zant can do just because hes fed on some twili.

3. Zant gets extra amp or Ganons entire power from Ganon, threfore Zant can use some powers Ganondorf can use AND those altered/powered up by the amp he previously may have had as a twili. Either way hes shown powers Ganondorf has not.

1. Aye.

2. Good point again, why? because having power over something e.g. having power over the fused shadow itself, would grant him some control of how it affects him. My claims previously have been having a specific power, e.g. mind powers does not make you immune or necesserily resistant to them.

3. Remained himself? the guy ended up as a bodiless twilightlike head floating around reqtuiring to power up Zant to act as an avatar in Hyrule....hardly his typical self

Why should I? you did something foolish and I outlined it then you tried to make a point about it. If you want to drop it then just dont reply to this reply 😉

1. Because ive seen the vid of where Zant takes ages to call down his first twilight across the world, him beating a spirit so the twilight can return to an area the spirit protected does not mean hes suddenly become faster at calling twilight.

2. Lasts longer, takes 16 seconds to cast as proven by vid evidence in the other thread.

3. Whats the "magical darkness"? according to Nemebro their just merging twilight with Hyrule, thats the only magic is the ability to merge. Other than that, the stuff itself has not afaik been considered magcial, only what theyve done with it.

Originally posted by ScreamPaste
as Ganondorf crushes the Hylden lord anyway. 😐

What with? his lightning speed reactions and his godlike castle busting durability!!! zomg! lol...

Nah, faster teleport, hylden lord beasts Ganons soul with the reaver.