Originally posted by cdtm
On Power Girl being faster:She flat out admitted Cap was faster in Johns initial JSA run. Cap is in no way superior to Adam.
Incorrect actually. BA is stronger than Cap and has much better durability. This is because of the God's that power him two give him strength (Amon and Aton) and two give him durability(Shu and Aton). While Cap is faster and has better endurance. BA is just over half light speed (his speed only coming from Horus).
Both the women have a speed advantage over Adam. I don't however think either is capable of doing sufficient damage to him to bring about a win.
Originally posted by beatboks
Incorrect actually. BA is stronger than Cap and has much better durability. This is because of the God's that power him two give him strength (Amon and Aton) and two give him durability(Shu and Aton). While Cap is faster and has better endurance. BA is just over half light speed (his speed only coming from Horus).Both the women have a speed advantage over Adam. I don't however think either is capable of doing sufficient damage to him to bring about a win.
Originally posted by cdtmAnd I know Captain Marvels lost against Adam in their first major post crisis fight, and again in World War 3. In general, Adam tends to look a little stronger...
Cap was at 1/3 power level in that fight because Freddy (Jnr) and Mary were both powered up. Despite this and even after BA dislocated his shoulder and he had his arm in a sling and with another Marvel (uncle) powered up Billy's stamina was still enough to keep taking on BA until he had the moral victory. Cap always outlasts BA.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Incorrect, their strength comes from different gods but they are equal in everything.
equal huh. Why has Cap been able to achieve Light speed and been asked by wally if he was linked to the Speed force and yet BA has tapped out at over half the speed of light (mach 500) and collapsed in the background of Jay. Also BA was unable to react to Jay when speed blitzing in JSA. the only way he could deal with Jay was to thunderclap and have him busy saving innocents from flying glass. Cap has also shown to match WW in speed who is faster than Jay.
On a side note IIRC in their first encounter before Mary and Freddy also powered up Billy's thought balloon was pretty clear that he was hit by BA harder than he could himself.
Originally posted by beatboksMach 500 is not half of speed of light and that's from different writers anyway. Adam was just a few steps behind Jay when Jay went lightspeed, he was getting tired at mach 500. Not to mention Jay was amped on the speed of another speedster there. Its like asking how is Cap more durable when he got hurt by bullets.
equal huh. Why has Cap been able to achieve Light speed and been asked by wally if he was linked to the Speed force and yet BA has tapped out at over half the speed of light (mach 500) and collapsed in the background of Jay.
Different writers and all that.
Also BA was unable to react to Jay when speed blitzing in JSA. the only way he could deal with Jay was to thunderclap and have him busy saving innocents from flying glass.And then he knocked him out with a backhand in Black Reign.
Cap has also shown to match WW in speed who is faster than Jay.No, she isn't.
On a side note IIRC in their first encounter before Mary and Freddy also powered up Billy's thought balloon was pretty clear that he was hit by BA harder than he could himself.He was unaware of his own strength there.
Originally posted by beatboks
equal huh. Why has Cap been able to achieve Light speed and been asked by wally if he was linked to the Speed force and yet BA has tapped out at over half the speed of light (mach 500) and collapsed in the background of Jay. Also BA was unable to react to Jay when speed blitzing in JSA. the only way he could deal with Jay was to thunderclap and have him busy saving innocents from flying glass. Cap has also shown to match WW in speed who is faster than Jay.On a side note IIRC in their first encounter before Mary and Freddy also powered up Billy's thought balloon was pretty clear that he was hit by BA harder than he could himself.
I might be confusing this with another moment but didn't black Adam knock jay on his ass in the middle of a speed blitz. He backhanded him.
Originally posted by JakeTheBank
Skill can only go so far against someone with better stats and isn't a complete idiot. I do think Diana can "outfight" Teth for a time, but eventually, the speed and strength difference is going to come in.
You know, there's plenty of boxers who win championships based on better technical skill. Even if your opponent has higher strength, if you can avoid more and hit more, you've got a very good shot. They're both high-herald melee types, no-one's going to win all the time, but either approach will work.
Also, I think speed's about equal- Speed of Hermes = Speed of Mercury = Teth's speed. Diana's also got higher reflexes/arm speed than even her speed of hermes would imply.
[QUOTE=14549159]Originally posted by Q99
[B]You know, there's plenty of boxers who win championships based on better technical skill. Even if your opponent has higher strength, if you can avoid more and hit more, you've got a very good shot. They're both high-herald melee types, no-one's going to win all the time, but either approach will work.
Also, I think speed's about equal- Speed of Hermes = Speed of Mercury = Teth's speed. Diana's also got higher reflexes/arm speed than even her speed of hermes would imply. "
Hmm id have to wager hermes is faster then mercury. hermes has some good speed and reflex feats against flash.
Originally posted by JakeTheBankWell both Cap, Batman, DD, etc. has consistently beaten beings physically superior to them because of skill. I would say BA is less than twice as strong as Diana and I would say Diana is more than twice as skilled as BA. As far as combat speed goes, Diana has the better feats than BA. To be clear, I feel blow for blow BA would beat WW. But given her skill advantage she can manage to out hit him 3 to 1 or even greater. This IMO is the reason why I think she beats him.
Skill can only go so far against someone with better stats and isn't a complete idiot. I do think Diana can "outfight" Teth for a time, but eventually, the speed and strength difference is going to come in.
Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
so 500 mac is more than half of light speed.black adam is just under light speed while cap can hit it
Yeah which is the exact words I used in my post that BA topped ou OVER half light speed. So not sure why Abhi said Mach 500 isn't half the speed of light because I never said it was.
Originally posted by Abhilegend Adam was just a few steps behind Jay when Jay went lightspeed, he was getting tired at mach 500. Not to mention Jay was amped on the speed of another speedster there.
Actually the panel in which Jay went Light speed BA was no where to be seen. The one your thinking of was the previous panel and BA wasn't just a few steps behind at all. BA was pictured at about two thirds the size of Jay in that panel. BA is taller than Jay the reason for the size difference was the way artists depict distance in comics, you know because things look smaller when their further away. Plus Jay only amped himself at light speed by draining BA speed ( what little there was) so that he could make the jump through time.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131174/3369767-2227676-eb1fd_flash4.jpg
I might be confusing this with another moment but didn't black Adam knock jay on his ass in the middle of a speed blitz. He backhanded him.yeah that was a separate instance but it was one against several that have shown the opposite. Personally I'll take consistent evidence over one offs that don't seem to fit with consistent showings.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/12/125079/2980602-2836890-1.png
This is how BA consistently shows against Jay
And this is how he has to deal with him
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/scale_super/12/125079/2980603-2836891-2.png
Both those scans are from the Goyer / Johns JSA run during the period Wally was in the speed force and Jay's connection to it was weakened and he could not attain light speed. So Jay at only 70/80% light speed was faster than BA by some measure. Considering that WW could keep up with Jesse Quick when she entered the Speed force she's the one with a slight speed advantage here ( very slight) and she's a lot more prone to actually use speed than BA is.
