I have always thoght that Operation: Knightfall Vader=in teh z0ne Anakin. This is due to the way he effortlessly beat Drallig one handed and some off his force feats in the vido game cutscenes. Against Kenobi he fought like shit because he was conflicted. Against Yoda he likely wouln't have that problem. Also I doubt Yoda would just pwn Vader with the force. If it was that easy Dooku would have done it in ROTS. Yes I still think Yoda would beat him with the force, but Yoda uses the force for defense never for attack. Really he mostly reflects attacks and doesn't just come in sending objects flying... He pushes the Emperor once, otherwise he just reflects Sidious/Dooku's attacks.
Yoda would win, but Anakin would take much longer to defeat since Anakin is about as good with the saber as Yoda. Once Yoda had a oppurtunity, he would own him with the force, unless Sidious got there in time to help. If Sidiou took a while to get there, Yoda has time to pwn Anakin with the force. Then if Sidious takes a while, Yoda would have time to regenarate and beat sidious if he didn't manipulate the envorment. If he did, they fight to a draw, and Yoda flees
Originally posted by ares834
I I doubt Yoda would just pwn Vader with the force. If it was that easy Dooku would have done it in ROTS.
Yet Yoda>Dooku, if not Yoda >>Dooku in the force. What Dooku couldn't do (maybe he could but didn't go for it?), Yoda might be able to do with ease.
Originally posted by ares834
I Yes I still think Yoda would beat him with the force, but Yoda uses the force for defense never for attack.
True, but when he uses it offensively he totally embarrasses Ventress, the same Ventress who was always a good match for Anakin, saber and force wise.
Originally posted by ares834
I Really he mostly reflects attacks and doesn't just come in sending objects flying... He pushes the Emperor once,
And puts the most powerful Sith ever on his ass, mind you.
Originally posted by ares834 I
he just reflects Sidious/Dooku's attacks.
Yoda was never going all out with Dooku. Big difference. Also he was evenly matched with Palpatine, and Anakin is no Palpy.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Yet Yoda>Dooku, if not Yoda >>Dooku in the force. What Dooku couldn't do (maybe he could but didn't go for it?), Yoda might be able to do with ease.
True, but when he uses it offensively he totally embarrasses Ventress, the same Ventress who was always a good match for Anakin, saber and force wise.
And puts the most powerful Sith ever on his ass, mind you.
Yoda was never going all out with Dooku. Big difference.
Also he was evenly matched with Palpatine, and Anakin is no Palpy.
What if Sidious decides to act arrogant like he often does and decides to battle Obi Wan in a lightsaber duel? He'd be unable to break through Obi Wan's defenses and would eventually have to resort to offensive Force moves. By that time Yoda would have defeated Anakin (aka Vader). Sidious might take a while to get there, in which case Yoda can prepare for the confrontation. Sidious will duel Yoda, in which case it would be a toss up. Yoda would probably win, unless if he happens to be too close to the lava if Sidious uses his Force lightning.
It might have made more sense for Yoda to bring Obi Wan with him to confront Sidious. They could tactically/strategically prepare and position themselves in a way that Sidious can't just one shot Obi Wan. In that case Sidious would likely lose.
Originally posted by ares834
Key word might.
Originally posted by ares834
ANyway Padawan Anakin was a match for Ventress, in teh z0ne Anakin would dominate her.
Key word would. Its very likely, but who knows.
Originally posted by ares834
Because he was laughing his ass off and was caught by surprise. It is impressive but not enough to guarentee a win for Yoda.
Agreed, yet it shows how powerful Yoda is. I don't think teh Zone Anakin could hope to replicate such feat against Sidious.
Originally posted by ares834
Proove that he wasn't going all out on Yoda. Hell he was gasping for breath when he said how powerful Dooku became.
Gasping for air is hardly an indication of anything. If my memory serves me right it was mentioned in the Rots novel (maybe I'm mistaken, it's been years since I read it). Also in Dark Randevous Yoda starts the fight with Dooku with words along this one: "I'm not going to hurt you" or sth. I'm positive it has been established on this very forum that Yoda was not going for the kill in his confrontations with Dooku.
I don't think the chances are large even if it was just a lightsaber duel that Anakin would go down before Obi Wan. The reason Obi Wan did so well against Anakin was he taught him and Anakin was conflicted. If he fought Yoda, Yoda wouldn't have that advantage and it would be a decent fight before Yoda took down Vader, which i say would happen 7/10 times. Obi wan would go down super quick to Sidious, and Sidious would then go to confront Yoda unless somehow Anakin one because he was in t3h z0n3.
Ahh, sorry for double posts.
Originally posted by ares834
The way he puts Dooku on his ass is amazing. The novel itself makes it clear that there was simply no chance for Dooku and that he was powerless before Anakin. This is the same Dooku who has held his own against Yoda twice.
True. Indeed, Dooku got ****ed. Yet again, he is not as powerful as Yoda. Also it was stated that his defeat was due to the weakness of his lightsaber style (?) It may be also speculated that his orders were not to kill Anakin (sth along this lines was argued here if I remember correctly).
Originally posted by ares834
Now I'm not saying that Anakin would win against Yoda every time, but that he could get some wins.
I think this nicely sums up our argument, So actually we agree on the outcome of this fight. I'm willing to agree that teh Zone Anakin will be a worthy opponent for Yoda in sabers. In teh force, idk, I just don't see it. So all out lets say 7/10 for Yoda and call it a day. 🙂
BTW. I'm going on a trip tomorrow, and probably will have no access to the internet. If you want to adress my post I will be able to respond in like 3 days.
Originally posted by Zack Skywalker
I don't think the chances are large even if it was just a lightsaber duel that Anakin would go down before Obi Wan. The reason Obi Wan did so well against Anakin was he taught him and Anakin was conflicted. If he fought Yoda, Yoda wouldn't have that advantage and it would be a decent fight before Yoda took down Vader, which i say would happen 7/10 times. Obi wan would go down super quick to Sidious, and Sidious would then go to confront Yoda unless somehow Anakin one because he was in t3h z0n3.
In a lightsaber duel with no offensive Force powers being used, Obi Wan might last quite a while against Sidious. Obi Wan was capable of blocking over 20 strikes per second, and I doubt that Sidious could strike faster than that. Oh, and Yoda would likely beat Anakin far more often than 7/10.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
Key word would. Its very likely, but who knows.
Agreed, yet it shows how powerful Yoda is. I don't think teh Zone Anakin could hope to replicate such feat against Sidious.
Gasping for air is hardly an indication of anything.
If my memory serves me right it was mentioned in the Rots novel (maybe I'm mistaken, it's been years since I read it). Also in Dark Randevous Yoda starts the fight with Dooku with words along this one: "I'm not going to hurt you" or sth.
I'm positive it has been established on this very forum that Yoda was not going for the kill in his confrontations with Dooku.
True. Indeed, Dooku got ****ed. Yet again, he is not as powerful as Yoda. Also it was stated that his defeat was due to the weakness of his lightsaber style (?) It may be also speculated that his orders were not to kill Anakin (sth along this lines was argued here if I remember correctly).
Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
What if Sidious decides to act arrogant like he often does and decides to battle Obi Wan in a lightsaber duel? He'd be unable to break through Obi Wan's defenses and would eventually have to resort to offensive Force moves. By that time Yoda would have defeated Anakin (aka Vader). Sidious might take a while to get there, in which case Yoda can prepare for the confrontation. Sidious will duel Yoda, in which case it would be a toss up. Yoda would probably win, unless if he happens to be too close to the lava if Sidious uses his Force lightning.It might have made more sense for Yoda to bring Obi Wan with him to confront Sidious. They could tactically/strategically prepare and position themselves in a way that Sidious can't just one shot Obi Wan. In that case Sidious would likely lose.
What you are referring to is http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Dun_M%C3%B6ch
The argument that Yoda and Dooku were on par or equals was something that was perpetuated by pro-Dooku fanboys or partisans who smothered the rest of us with their Christopher Lee fetish. Attack of the Clones saw the Count and Yoda engage in two contests, one of the Force and one of blades. Dooku, to my knowledge, attacked Yoda two or three times with telekinesis and Force lightning, with Yoda casually deflecting them all; Yoda only "attacked" Dooku once in the Force contest, by deflecting the lightning back to him. If Yoda had really attempted to subdue or kill the Count, wouldn't he have responded in kind every time? Furthermore, the fact that Yoda chose to rescue Kenobi and Skywalker -- making the same choice that Mace later lamented in Shatterpoint -- is further indicative that he was not yet prepared to kill his former apprentice. Yoda, like Mace, was too clouded by personal attachment and respect for Dooku to kill him.
Dark Rendezvous takes place on Vjun, in which Dooku's dark side powers are greater than what they would be on a Force-neutral world. And despite attacking Yoda through cunning, trickery, and manipulation, he is unable to overcome Yoda in combat; it is Dooku who is fatigued by the effort, it is Dooku who retreats, even though Yoda spent the majority of the fight attempting to avoid killing the Count ("Wish to hurt you, I do not!"😉.
This, coupled with the Count's enormous fear of Darth Sidious and his powers, indicates quite clearly that however talented and prodigious Dooku is, he's not on the same level as either of his Masters.
My point has never been to claim that Dooku was Yoda's equal simply that Anakin trashed Dooku and that Dooku held his own against Yoda. Yes it came out that way, but my quote was simply to show that the two were comparable on Geonosis. In fact earlier on I pointed out that Yoda does not seem to use the force offensively and uses it to defend himself.
Originally posted by Gideon
Furthermore, the fact that Yoda chose to rescue Kenobi and Skywalker -- making the same choice that Mace later lamented in Shatterpoint -- is further indicative that he was not yet prepared to kill his former apprentice. Yoda, like Mace, was too clouded by personal attachment and respect for Dooku to kill him.