Originally posted by Hewhoknowsall
There were numerous situations in which Sidious could have used that power and didn't. One can assume that he didn't learn it until DE.Yoda beats Anakin and Sidious beats Obi Wan.
If Yoda goes to confront Sidious, then it's a toss up, with a slight edge to Yoda.
If Sidious goes to confront Yoda, then it's still a toss up with a slight edge to Yoda.
Furthermore, there are plenty of situations that warranted the utilization of Force storms during the events of Dark Empire II and Empire's End. Are you going to claim that Sidious somehow lost the ability to conjure storms simply because he neglected to make use of the power? The logic you're using to bolster your assumption is fallacious in that regard.
Originally posted by Elok Quintly
Yoda has the advantage why? What evidence do you have to reach that conclusion? I would hope something other than "facial expressions".Furthermore, there are plenty of situations that warranted the utilization of Force storms during the events of Dark Empire II and Empire's End. Are you going to claim that Sidious somehow lost the ability to conjure storms simply because he neglected to make use of the power? The logic you're using to bolster your assumption is fallacious in that regard.
Yoda disarmed Sidious, which is apparently confirmed. Yoda therefore would have won had he not by chance had been too close to the edge of the Senate pod. In an even battle, Yoda has an advantage over Sidious.
What I was saying about the Force storm ability is that Sidious never used it during the OT period (or did he?). There is no evidence that he knew it by that time and he could have benefited from using it but didn't.
He could have benefited from using it post-DE as well, and yet he did not use it. Sidious was seen flying in TFU and Sithisis, yet he did not do so in ROTS and ROTJ--both events in which the power would definitely have come in handy.
Palpatine's disarmament is depicted in two sources that conflict with two other sources of equal canonicity. Take from that as you will. I'm not going to bother pointing toward all the sources that explicitly declare Sidious's superiority over Yoda, as they seem to be flippantly disregarded.
I'm willing to concede the idea that Yoda was the superior swordsman in terms of technical ability and aptitude as of Revenge of the Sith, since there is absolutely zero indication or implication that the Emperor maintained his swordsmanship as Supreme Chancellor -- he tells Vader in the Rise of Darth Vader that a true Sith has very little use for a lightsaber other than simply "to humiliate Jedi" (presumably by using their own weapons against them) -- whereas Yoda had time and inclination to maintain his skills, not to mention the frontline experience with which to wield them.
I'll also concede the idea that Yoda disarmed Sidious.
What I won't concede is how the disarmament is portrayed in the screenplay; the scene depicts Yoda clearly holding the upper hand, defeating both the Emperor's assaults with the lightsaber and Force lightning, but then Yoda retreats for absolutely zero reason. This is in direct conflict with Yoda's motivation (to kill Palpatine, not play a game of catch-and-release) that was depicted in all of the canon mediums. Accepting that would not only defy all common sense and relegate Yoda to the status of utter moron, but also contradict G-canon "Destroy the Sith, we must!"
There is no source that claims Sidious let his skills go to the wayside either--only that he kept a lightsaber within a neuranium statue of Sistros for a considerable amount of time. Seeing as to how he possessed more than one blade, that evidence is moot. I could just as easily claim Sidious was a master of Jar'Kai since he crafted two different lightsabers.
The degradation of foes is more than enough of a motivator for Palpatine to maintain his skill. I care more for spawn camping with a tank in Star Wars: Battlefront than I do combatting my foes on foot, yet I make a conscious effort to maintain my infantry skill so as to further humiliate naysayers.
EQ
There is no source that claims Sidious let his skills go to the wayside either--only that he kept a lightsaber within a neuranium statue of Sistros for a considerable amount of time. Seeing as to how he possessed more than one blade, that evidence is moot. I could just as easily claim Sidious was a master of Jar'Kai since he crafted two different lightsabers.
Quite frankly, I find this line of thought to be firmly within the realm of ridiculous. When would Palpatine have the time to maintain his fighting skills? In case you've forgotten, not only was he the political leader of a galaxy-spanning regime, he was also the secret leader of another galaxy-spanning outlaw nation, and spent the majority of his time concocting galaxy-spanning strategies for three years. The recurring theme here is "galaxy" spanning; Palpatine had to essentially monitor and manipulate trillions of individuals indirectly, to say nothing of his direct manipulations and schemes, which likely numbered in the dozens.
Where would he have the time? Palpatine chose Dooku because he didn't have the time to train another apprentice from scratch, hence why the Count was so appealing: a master swordsman, a political idealist, a wealthy aristocrat -- thus it is reasonable to conclude that Palpatine clearly had to manage his time wisely. Prancing around with a lightsaber in his office just doesn't seem like an especially clever application of his incredibly limited time.
We do not see any source suggesting or confirming the idea that Palpatine kept in practice, and a logical assessment of Palpatine's workload as both Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and Dark Lord of the Sith, not to mention the fact that he clearly avoided training an apprentice from scratch as well as his own admission to the Rise of Darth Vader that he uses a lightsaber only to humiliate Jedi, would lead to the inevitable conclusion that Palpatine did not likely maintain his lightsaber skills.
Originally posted by GideonYou think that in three years time Palpatine's skills diminished?
Quite frankly, I find this line of thought to be firmly within the realm of ridiculous. When would Palpatine have the time to maintain his fighting skills? In case you've forgotten, not only was he the political leader of a galaxy-spanning regime, he was also the secret leader of another galaxy-spanning outlaw nation, and spent the majority of his time concocting galaxy-spanning strategies for three years. The recurring theme here is "galaxy" spanning; Palpatine had to essentially monitor and manipulate trillions of individuals indirectly, to say nothing of his direct manipulations and schemes, which likely numbered in the dozens.Where would he have the time? Palpatine chose Dooku because he didn't have the time to train another apprentice from scratch, hence why the Count was so appealing: a master swordsman, a political idealist, a wealthy aristocrat -- thus it is reasonable to conclude that Palpatine clearly had to manage his time wisely. Prancing around with a lightsaber in his office just doesn't seem like an especially clever application of his incredibly limited time.
We do not see any source suggesting or confirming the idea that Palpatine kept in practice, and a logical assessment of Palpatine's workload as both Supreme Chancellor of the Republic and Dark Lord of the Sith, not to mention the fact that he clearly avoided training an apprentice from scratch as well as his own admission to the Rise of Darth Vader that he uses a lightsaber only to humiliate Jedi, would lead to the inevitable conclusion that Palpatine did not likely maintain his lightsaber skills.
Galan007
You think that in three years time Palpatine's skills diminished?
And that's just during the Clone Wars. A decade prior to that, Palpatine was still Supreme Chancellor and still manipulating galactic-spanning events.
That's thirteen years in total. I see zero reason to believe that the man had the desire, inclination, or means to maintain his skills.
Originally posted by GideonDespite the years in which he may not have been practicing, is there any reason to believe his lightsaber skills worsened?
And that's just during the Clone Wars. A decade prior to that, Palpatine was still Supreme Chancellor and still manipulating galactic-spanning events.That's thirteen years in total. I see zero reason to believe that the man had the desire, inclination, or means to maintain his skills.
Originally posted by GideonFrom a real-world perspective, you're absolutely right... But Palpatine and his 'Sithness' don't exactly fit within the guidelines of real-world analogies. 😉
I'm not sure.In some cultures, though, skills become less refined when you don't use them.
Anywho, I guess my only question is if there are any canonical sources which say something to the tune of Palpatine's saber skills having decreased over the years, due to his relative inactivity in that department? I only ask because his showings in RotS depict his skills as quite.... Honed.
We know that as senator, he relegated most of his day-to-day duties to his aides; training Maul and enacting his Sith plots while secluded in his quarters. As Chancellor, I'm sure he functioned in a similar capacity.
He also had enough time to engage in Sith rituals such as those depicted in Sithisis.
It should also be noted that applying real-world guidelines to anything involving Palpatine is a futile endeavor. Nobody in this world can incite and perpetuate the sheer number of conspiracies that Palpatine devised. Not only that, but Palpatine doesn't really sleep either.
Galan007
From a real-world perspective, you're absolutely right... But Palpatine and his 'Sithness' don't exactly fit within the guidelines of real-world analogies. 😉
There are about a zillion comments I'd like to make that originate from the Smartass dimension, but since I can't pick one, I'll choose the proper emoticon:
😐
Galan007
Anywho, I guess my only question is if there are any canonical sources which say something to the tune of Palpatine's saber skills having decreased over the years, due to his relative inactivity in that department? I only ask because his showings in RotS depict his skills as quite.... Honed.
...So the fact that he retains a measure of skill with his lightsaber means that he retains all of it?
😐
EQ
We know that as senator, he relegated most of his day-to-day duties to his aides; training Maul and enacting his Sith plots while secluded in his quarters. As Chancellor, I'm sure he functioned in a similar capacity.
If Galactic Senators are anything like United States Senators, then Palpatine would have a considerable amount of free time. But being the representative of a humble sector is nothing compared to being Supreme Chancellor of the entire Republic, not to mention the secret mastermind of the Confederacy... simultaneously.
EQ
He also had enough time to engage in Sith rituals such as those depicted in Sithisis.
Sithisis takes place in a comic book in which the amount of time passed during said ritual is not revealed or hinted at; furthermore, we don't know how often he conducted those rituals; lastly, if he did spend a lot of time conducting Sith rituals, that would eat up a lot of opportunity for swinging his saber.
Galan007
I see no reason
This is evident.
Galan007
to assume otherwise. That's why I asked if you had proof that his skills did diminish over the years.
Admittedly, I can only appeal to real world properties and common sense. I live in this mystical dream world in which Palpatine is the simultaneous leader of two galactic-class factions, micromanaging a war between those two factions, and arranging the seduction of Anakin Skywalker, eating up a substantial bulk of his time.
But if all you have to offer me is "uhhh, Star Wars skills dont devolve lyke real wurld skills" and "uhhh, Palpatine was still dangerous with a saber ergo he couldnt lose any skill," we might have to agree to disagree.
Originally posted by Gideonu jus had 2 sey u hav n0 prouf!!!11!!
Admittedly, I can only appeal to real world properties and common sense. I live in this mystical dream world in which Palpatine is the simultaneous leader of two galactic-class factions, micromanaging a war between those two factions, and arranging the seduction of Anakin Skywalker, eating up a substantial bulk of his time.But if all you have to offer me is "uhhh, Star Wars skills dont devolve lyke real wurld skills" and "uhhh, Palpatine was still dangerous with a saber ergo he couldnt lose any skill," we might have to agree to disagree.
But yeah, I can agree to disagree here. I do see where you're coming from, but based on the skills Palps demonstrated during RotS it's just hard for me to imagine them having decreased.