Alright truejedi: After carefully re-reading the RotS novelization version of the battle between Mace Windu and Darth Sidious, I have to say that I can see where you're coming from in regards to your stance on the matter. However, with that being said, it appears that Mace - via Shatterpoint - traces the fautline back to Anakin standing in the doorway (apparently frozen in fear). Mace (sensing this fear, thinking it to be Sids'😉 directs the battle to the window ledge. Mace then uses this fear against Sids to, well, slow him down, therefore allowing him the opportunity to disarm Sids. Either way, whether it was Anakin's fear or Sidious' that Mace was sensing, it would seem that Shatterpoint is what played the key role at this point. In the end, the scene leaves some room for interpretation (bad writing maybe?). Let me know what you think.
Originally posted by truejedi
Jinsoku: I can get your interpretation there, but since his shatterpoint WASN'T the fear that Mace thought it was... Sidious wasn't scared, but being out on the ledge slowed him down. that wasn't really shatterpoint working though.
Regardless of whether Sidious was afraid or not, Shatterpoint was what lead Mace to direct the battle in that manner.
And Shoes... WTF?
Thanks ares834 - that pretty much summarizes what my response would have been.
Not that your trolling isn't annoying me, but it's just so blatantly transparent. At least put some effort into it. The novel did indeed state "Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate." What you fail to comprehend was that Palpatine wasn't afraid. The reason why he sensed fear, was because Sidious was projecting fear, so that Anakin could see Palpatine as weak.
Originally posted by Shoes
Not that your trolling isn't annoying me, but it's just so blatantly transparent. At least put some effort into it. The novel did indeed state "Out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate." What you fail to comprehend was that Palpatine wasn't afraid. The reason why he sensed fear, was because Sidious was projecting fear, so that Anakin could see Palpatine as weak.
You said...
Prove the ledge slowed him down. The novel only stated that he pushed him out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate, mentioning nothing about speed.
And that's exactly what ares834 did. What don't you understand? If Sidious had to turn some of his Force-powered speed into a Force-powered grip on the slippery permacrete, then logic would dictate that he in fact slowed down. It's plain as day.
And who do you think is trolling here?
Originally posted by Shoes
See above post.His fear made him concetrate on gripping the floor. It was then proven he was not afraid. Ergo, him slowing down was part of his elaborate ruse.
Originally posted by Shoes
Prove the ledge slowed him down. The novel only stated that he pushed him out where the shadow's fear made it hesitate, mentioning nothing about speed.
Your position was untenable because you used that tagline right there (the one that is highlighted). If you had not included it as the keystone in your argument then you would be free to quibble about the root cause of the slowdown. By including that phrase, however, your position was open for attack on factual terms. It was a matter of fact that Sidious slowed down and, regardless of your overreaching point, you were mistaken in your defiant assertion that speed was not mentioned. It would reflect much more favorably on your maturity and ability if you were willing to admit that you made a mistake in this instance. (That particular talent is one of the most valuable you will learn here.)
I did not have the novel with me at the time, and I accept that I made a mistake.
However, I originally demanded proof of the ledge slowing him down. The quote which was posted in response was irrelevant, because his fear slowed him down, not the ledge in question. Since Palpatine's fear was a charade, it's safe to assume him slowing down was part of the comedy.
or some other very real reason slowed him down. Sidious wasn't putting on a charade of fear at that point. Anakin WAS afraid. It wasn't something Sidious was creating for him, so Sidious wouldn't have pretended to slow down because of non-existent fear, since he was surprised that Windu thought the fear belonged to Anakin.
^
wut da hell r u sayin
S makes a very interesting point... Windu assumes that Palpatine slowed down due to his own fear, but later concludes that Palpatine wasn't afraid at all; it was Anakin who was afraid. This fact, combined with the fact that Palpatine was communicating through Skywalker telepathically when Anakin was sitting in the Council chambers (the movie), the fact that Palpatine sensed both Skywalker's turmoil and Windu's determination through the Force (the novelization), and Vader's own thoughts on the issue (Death Star) leads to a strong (if not conclusive) argument in favor of Palpatine restraining himself the entire time.
Originally posted by truejedi
or some other very real reason slowed him down. Sidious wasn't putting on a charade of fear at that point. Anakin WAS afraid. It wasn't something Sidious was creating for him, so Sidious wouldn't have pretended to slow down because of non-existent fear, since he was surprised that Windu thought the fear belonged to Anakin.
Sidious wasn't afraid. He didn't know that Mace thought that fear in the room belonged to him (Sidious) So he had no reason to play-act his fear.
He slowed down because he had to use some of his force-enhanced speed as a force-enhanced grip. That much had nothing to do with his fear. Hesitation isn't fear.
TJ
Hesitation isn't fear.
Yes it is; in the same way that irritation is anger. It's just a diluted form of a core emotion.
The novelization is told through Windu's perspective; Windu assumes that Palpatine slowed down due to fear and later corrects himself: Palpatine wasn't afraid at all. It's pretty compelling, actually, though I will grant that it's not necessarily conclusive.
I think y'all are over-thinking it too much. Like TJ said, the reason Sidious slowed down is because the battle was angled in such a way that he was forced out onto a wet/slippery ledge. Because of this new-found battle locale, Sidious had to divert some of his force speed into force grip so that he didn't fall off the side of the building... And in that moment of 'weakness', Mace was able to make his move and disarm him.