Kas'im vs Anakin and Windu

Not overthinking it; just making sense of what we're given. Lucas really is a clever, clever bastard.

TJ
it isn't necessarily.

No, it really is. Seriously.

TJ
Hesitation can be evaluation as well.

Because you're afraid to impulsively act.

TJ
Or a survival instinct.

Because you're afraid of a threat.

TJ
Not Fear.

Indeed.

Originally posted by Galan007
I think y'all are over-thinking it too much. Like TJ said, the reason Sidious slowed down is because the battle was angled in such a way that he was forced out onto a wet/slippery ledge. Because of this new-found battle locale, Sidious had to divert some of his force speed into force grip so that he didn't fall off the side of the building... And in that moment of 'weakness', Mace was able to make his move and disarm him.

The quote is out where the shadow's fear made him.... Since he was not afraid, his slight faltering was a tactical move, nothing more.

Where does the idea come from that Sidious wasn't afraid? Was it because he said it... lulz. First, Palpatine is a manupilative liar. Second of all he never says it in the movies.

This is a good point. Palpatine's line about the fear not being his is non-canon anyway. the silent parts of that passage are still canon, because they are not directly contradicted, but Sidious's line denying the fear (the only indication we have that what Mace sensed was wrong) is non-canon.

^ 👆

Additionally, I find it amusing how some people seem to pick and choose which Palpatine statements are true, and which aren't.

TJ
but Sidious's line denying the fear (the only indication we have that what Mace sensed was wrong) is non-canon.

You lazy, goodfernuthin' sumbitches. Did you not even read the book? While I can't speak for Shoes, I can speak for myself, and I'm not basing my opinion at all on Palpatine's claim that he wasn't afraid, but Mace's own conclusion that Palpatine wasn't afraid. Which remains perfectly valid.

Where does it say that?

Look for the line that says "Palpatine wasn't afraid/worried at all. He trusted Anakin Skywalker."

^ The line I believe you're referring to has nothing to do with the argument at hand. Here's the whole excerpt:

"Anakin!" Mace called. His voice sounded distant, blurred, as if it came from the bottom of a well. "Anakin, help me! This is your chance!" He felt Anakin's leap from the office floor to the ledge, felt his approach behind - And Palpatine was not afraid. Mace could feel it: he wasn't worried at all."

Palpatine wasn't worried during that particular scene, because he knew Anakin would not help Mace... Despite his pleas.

Of course it does. It fits in with the entire sequence; Windu was being played, Palpatine wasn't afraid for his life at all.

^ No. In that scene, Palpatine wasn't afraid because he knew Anakin wouldn't help Mace. That's it.

I'm sorry, but it makes too much sense.

^ You make no sense.

....I'd still do you, though. bashful

It makes perfect sense:

Skywalker told Palpatine that he was going to inform the Council (movie/novelization/screenplay); Palpatine sensed Skywalker's turmoil and Windu's presence through the Force (novelization); Palpatine communicated with Skywalker telepathically to prompt him to interfere (movie); Palpatine records the confrontation to frame the Jedi (novelization); Palpatine was not afraid of Windu (novelization); Palpatine was feigning weakness (Lucas); Vader himself believes Palpatine was in control the entire time (Death Star).

Windu got punk'd.

Originally posted by Gideon
It makes perfect sense:

Skywalker told Palpatine that he was going to inform the Council (movie/novelization/screenplay); Palpatine sensed Skywalker's turmoil and Windu's presence through the Force (novelization); Palpatine communicated with Skywalker telepathically to prompt him to interfere (movie); Palpatine records the confrontation to frame the Jedi (novelization); Palpatine was not afraid of Windu (novelization); Palpatine was feigning weakness (Lucas); Vader himself believes Palpatine was in control the entire time (Death Star).

Windu got punk'd.

Lucas is a clever, clever bastard. He's using the same method with Palpatine's defeat that he used with the whole Plagueis/Palpatine apprenticeship.

Originally posted by Gideon
Plagueis/Palpatine apprenticeship.

Theres info on that now?

Originally posted by Gideon
Windu got punk'd.

dude
how is it that mace can overpower and defeat sidious, but mace is the one who "got punkd"? weird say i !

Who said that the two are mutually exclusive? Furthermore, who said that Palpatine was fighting to kill Windu and not simply to delay?

Originally posted by john allerdyce
how is it that mace can overpower and defeat sidious, but mace is the one who "got punkd"? weird say i !

Gid is saying that Sids played him the entire battle. While offering compelling evidence, GL said that Mace "overpowered" Sidious. Either way... this is an intriguing debate, one of which I will continue to watch w/ great interest.