Fantastic Four vs Twilight

Originally posted by Nibedicus
She doesn't need to contain both johnny and the vamps. Just the vamps. Or just Johnny. She's been able to create large force field before. From how the OP designs the fight, the vamps go out to meet them (putting them in range). She just needs to create a wide area field to contain the vamps then slowly shrink it.

Ok, so if I understood you right, Sue can do 1 of 2 things.

1. Shield Johnny, then make a small hole for him to shoot out of

or

2. Contain the vamps in a shield, open a small hole where Johnny can insert his finger and blast them through it.

Both of these scenarios pose some problems though. First, Johnny won't be able to go supernova and channel it all in a finger sized hole, at least not that we've seen in the movies. 2nd, he'd still need to figure out a way to hit the vamps. Not easy to hit speed blitzers in from a finger sized hole. Granted, this nullifies the vamp's attacks, but since they have Alice and Edward they could probably avoid getting caught in the first place.

Another thing to consider is that Sue's shields are not infinite. She's pretty strong with them but has been shown to tire. So if she shields the vamps and the vamps continuously ram into her shield, she'll end up tiring eventually.

Originally posted by the ninjak
The vamps have Alice Nibedicus.

They run at insane speeds. Can slow time and watch spiders mend webs whilst flying through woods ect.

The split second Sue starts to hold her arms out, they are off.

And even if she contains a few of them. If. The others appear behind her and KO her. She can only focus on one force at a time.

Alice is a nonfactor here as (other than Edward reading her mind) she won't be able to share tactics garnered via her precog at the start as per stips.

It takes a split second to raise her arms and she's been able to create some big fields before (like the one she used on the eye) and from my computation, this would require that they 1) know in advance to split up in multiple directions. 2) immediately accelerate to in excess of 150mph from 0mph within a split second. Do they have on screen "feats" that support this?

Originally posted by FrothByte
Ok, so if I understood you right, Sue can do 1 of 2 things.

1. Shield Johnny, then make a small hole for him to shoot out of

or

2. Contain the vamps in a shield, open a small hole where Johnny can insert his finger and blast them through it.

Both of these scenarios pose some problems though. First, Johnny won't be able to go supernova and channel it all in a finger sized hole, at least not that we've seen in the movies. 2nd, he'd still need to figure out a way to hit the vamps. Not easy to hit speed blitzers in from a finger sized hole. Granted, this nullifies the vamp's attacks, but since they have Alice and Edward they could probably avoid getting caught in the first place.

Another thing to consider is that Sue's shields are not infinite. She's pretty strong with them but has been shown to tire. So if she shields the vamps and the vamps continuously ram into her shield, she'll end up tiring eventually.

She can slowly shrink the field then have johnny funnel in fire once it's small enough.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
You DO know that without at least a hint at what direction to take when doing a search (who posted the info, where to look, what keywords to use, etc.), there was no way for me to actually find it w/o spending hours scouring thru irrelevant text?

Wrong: You have all the keywords and even the subforum you need to find it quickly. Hint: I found it in less than 30 seconds...and I only used word(s) that occurred in this thread. Stop being lazy/an "evidence troll". Find it or don't but stop asking me to provide something that all the rest of us have already discussed.

It is generally forum etiquette to not bother discussions with questions about stuff you should find on your own. If I were in your situation, I would have looked, myself, before even posting. Why? Because I don't want to bog down a discussion with questions that are literally irrelevant.

Originally posted by juggerman
Your newer post is based on Torch doing something he wouldn't do. So without that happening all i have to go on is you saying vamps win...

"In-character actions" and/or "CIS" are always turned off in threads unless specified differently in the OP conditions.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Alice is a nonfactor here as (other than Edward reading her mind) she won't be able to share tactics garnered via her precog at the start as per stips.

It takes a split second to raise her arms and she's been able to create some big fields before (like the one she used on the eye) and from my computation, this would require that they 1) know in advance to split up in multiple directions. 2) immediately accelerate to in excess of 150mph from 0mph within a split second. Do they have on screen "feats" that support this?

-Well Alice is a factor considering she perceives threats before they happen.
She has witnessed events happening (in detail) weeks to months ahead of the time of occurrence.

-The London Eye feat wasn't a bubble it was a wobbly effect of force applied to the large ferris wheel. Sue's telekinitic abilities aren't the same as Sues in the comics. Which results in solid spherical masses, they are wobbles of influence that form out from her arms and take effect.
Sure she can contain an area at short distance. But the bridge and Eye feats were more just sending out energy to push back.

I could be well wrong but what feats does Sue have of contain such a long ranged and huge area then squashing it with such precision?
Let alone making holes and such?

Originally posted by dadudemon
Wrong: You have all the keywords and even the subforum you need to find it quickly. Hint: I found it in less than 30 seconds...and I only used word(s) that occurred in this thread. Stop being lazy/an "evidence troll". Find it or don't but stop asking me to provide something that all the rest of us have already discussed.

It is generally forum etiquette to not bother discussions with questions about stuff you should find on your own. If I were in your situation, I would have looked, myself, before even posting. Why? Because I don't want to bog down a discussion with questions that are literally irrelevant.

Actually, it's general ettiquette to FIRST provide evidence (or at least link it) within the thread where the debate occurs before making sweeping claims. Not everyone spends all day in the MvF forum and not everyone reads every thread.

How is requesting for sources "trolling" when so much of your argument seems to be based on a computation you don't seem to have the courtesy to even cut/paste or link? Who's being lazy here?

You don't "bog down" discussions by providing easily link-able evidence when asked for it. You "bog down" discussions by being evasive and rude when ppl are just simply asking where your math is coming from.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
She can slowly shrink the field then have johnny funnel in fire once it's small enough.

Yes, that works in theory. I still have my doubts though since I don't recall movie Sue ever displaying that kind of skill with her invisible bubbles. To get this scenario to work, we have to assume that Sue can

1. Quickly create a vast bubble that's big enough to encase those speedy vamps, and she has to do it from a far enough distance.

2. Have enough skill to put a hole in there somewhere where Johnny can shoot his fire into. And this is assuming that Johnny can see where this hole is (it's invisible remember) whereas the vamps shouldn't be able to see this such that they can't throw rocks through the hole.

3. Be able to shrink this bubble while maintaining it's strength and that finger hole.

4. Be able to do all of this and not tiring while those pretty strong vamps are wailing away at her shield. Not to mention Jasper probably messing around with her emotions.

Like I said, it should work in theory. It's the accomplishing part that I'm dubious about since Sue has never shown such dexterity and stamina with her skill before.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Actually, it's general ettiquette to FIRST provide evidence

It was provided. You're two posts behind. Actually read and understand my posts before writing rebuttals.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
(or at least link it) within the thread where the debate occurs before making sweeping claims. Not everyone spends all day in the MvF forum and not everyone reads every thread.

Wrong: it is up to you to educate yourself on a forum's established facts.

This is my impression of you:

"WOAH! Guys! Hold the thread up! I don't know what you're talking about because I neither can use google can I use the forum search functions!"

Originally posted by Nibedicus
How is requesting for sources "trolling" when so much of your argument seems to be based on a computation you don't seem to have the courtesy to even cut/paste or link? Who's being lazy here?

Across the interwebz, there is a troll that always demands evidence no matter the situation. Even when it becomes silly to do so. This troll could have looked up the evidence for themselves in mere seconds but refuses on a faked "principle." They are not interested in actual debate but actually derailing threads with their unnecessary demands of "evidence."

Look how many times you've replied to me. You could have spent that whole time finding the threads and previous discussions.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
You don't "bog down" discussions by providing easily link-able evidence when asked for it. You "bog down" discussions by being evasive and rude when ppl are just simply asking where your math is coming from.

Wrong: you bog down discussions by being an evidence troll. Hint: you should never have asked for the evidence and looked for it yourself. Who knows, maybe you'd learn something?

Edit - Since you are not longer discussing the actual point you were originally crapping yourself over, I take it you actually found it? 😆

Originally posted by Robtard

I had to find and paste the link in the "AvF". I believe you even posted in that AvF thread. You are quite forgetful, eh? 🙁

Originally posted by dadudemon
Blahblahblahtrolltroll

Sigh.

You DO know that I've already SAID that I'd search for it the minute you provided that the evidence existed via a post of yours?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Sigh. Since you now mentioned that it was your post, guess I'll start with that. Don't get the attitude, tho.

FYI, the fact that it was 1) a post in these forums and 2) posted by you is kinda instrumental in finding it. Neither information was actually readily available within the discussion up until directly prior to me SAYING that I'd search for it myself. :-/

So yeah, everything that you posted just now is kinda just all meaningless posturing that I'm not gonna indulge.

Anyway, found it, gonna check the numbers but this might take time as it looks like a long read.

mmmm delicious 🙂

I do have my own preferences.

The Vamps kill Sue, then Johnny goes nova and kills them all.

Deal with it.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Anyway, found it, gonna check the numbers but this might take time as it looks like a long read.

Check the AvF, as well. I updated some mistakes/typos I made as well as calculating Bella's description of strength (which I find stupid).

Originally posted by Mindset
The Vamps kill Sue, then Johnny goes nova and kills them all.

Deal with it.

*Sigh* Let's go through this again. Johnny needs time to get up to super nova. Without Sue, there's nothing to shield Johnny from getting knocked out (or killed) by rocks thrown by the vamps.

Originally posted by FrothByte
*Sigh* Let's go through this again. Johnny needs time to get up to super nova. Without Sue, there's nothing to shield Johnny from getting knocked out (or killed) by rocks thrown by the vamps.

He doesn't even need to go nova to kill them.

Originally posted by Mindset
Aside from him, you know, dodging the rocks...

He doesn't even need to go nova to kill them.

How is he dodging continuous rocks thrown by speed blitzers from all angles?

And Johnny has never used extreme heat to defeat threats on screen besides when he was contained by Sue.

I agree with your earlier point on if Sue was killed he would then go all out Nova in a rage. That makes sense. Say goodbye to Red and Ben too I guess.

We've seen how accurately they can throw a baseball form large distances straight into 4th base.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Check the AvF, as well. I updated some mistakes/typos I made as well as calculating Bella's description of strength (which I find stupid).

Gonna be a few days on the math. Showed my initial computation to a friend and he says quite a few things need correcting (he dabbles in physics and has a few ppl with Physics PHDs working for him). As I am (admittedly) a bit embarrassed to actually to admit that I enjoy frequenting movie/comic VS forums, I'll have to do a bit of editing on your computation before sending it to him.

Originally posted by Nibedicus
Gonna be a few days on the math. Showed my initial computation to a friend and he says quite a few things need correcting (he dabbles in physics and has a few ppl with Physics PHDs working for him). As I am (admittedly) a bit embarrassed to actually to admit that I enjoy frequenting movie/comic VS forums, I'll have to do a bit of editing on your computation before sending it to him.

Already beat you to the punch: showed the work to one of my old physics professors.

I went to school for physics so whatever he comes up with will be less correct than mine.

However, it doesn't get any more specific than what it stated in the white paper. So if they come up with anything that contradicts the white paper, it is wrong.

Originally posted by the ninjak
How is he dodging continuous rocks thrown by speed blitzers from all angles?

How are these rocks going to touch him when they get incinerated as soon as they enter his vicinity?