Ozymandias runs The Matrix guantlet.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
He's hit people harder than what we've seen from the likes of Morpheus and Trinity. We've never seen an Agent kick a rebel like they were a football. Thrown? Yes, but not kicked.

ORly?

YouTube video

1:23 Smashes concrete like nothing.

1:43 Punches Neo and sends him flying into the conrete wall, smashing it.

2:15 Punches Neo and sends him flying.

YouTube video

- Smith Punches Morpheus while lying down, sends him flying and smashing a brick wall.

- Kicks Morpheus while he is down, sends him into the brick wall.

I'm aware of all of that. I said kick, and none of those kicks equate to what Veidt did to Rorschach.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I'm aware of all of that. I said kick, and none of those kicks equate to what Veidt did to Rorschach.

Yes there is a kick in there if you even watched it.

You originally said only "throws" were shown.

Didn't see one.

So Smith can clearly punch far harder than Ozymandias can kick and now you're reduced to arguing that they were punches and not kicks. Is this where you say "kicking feats only" now?

if someone can punch a whole in concrete, one could feasibly assert that the same person can kick a whole in the same concrete...

Kicking power > Punching power

/fact.

Originally posted by jaden101
So Smith can clearly punch far harder than Ozymandias can kick and now you're reduced to arguing that they were punches and not kicks. Is this where you say "kicking feats only" now?

There is a kick. Denying it doesn't make it disappear.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I was just saying. Far harder? No.

Your only strength feat is that he kicks Rorschach about 10 feet...Then there's the other one when he throws a sturdy, heavy looking chair at Nite Owl.

Do either of those equate to punching through a reinforced concrete column? Or kicking a man an equal distance but with enough force to smash a wooden column in half?....Or any of the other feats shown by the Matrix characters we've shown in the thread?

I get the feeling you're just being stubborn and not wanting to admit you're wrong in this case.

Also, what Durability feats does Ozy has? All he has done is give a beating to largely inferior combatants.

What durability feats does he have that shows he can trade blows with someone like Smith and not get KTFO?

I was thinking he might have a chance against Trinity but then I thought about her 1st encounter with the cops in M1...When she kicks one cop with enough force to send him flying into another cop and them both flying into the wall at the other side of the room. Then she runs around the corner of the wall dodging 10 shots from about 8 feet away.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
I'm aware of all of that. I said kick, and none of those kicks equate to what Veidt did to Rorschach.

Morpheus' kick to Neo in the dojo was far harder than Ozy's kick to Rorschach...or are you just referring to the videos that Placidity posted?

Anyways, IMO Veidt will have a very hard time getting past 1, let alone challenging all the later combatants in the gauntlet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZd11gQRZ9s&feature=player_embedded

0:33 = Kick

Guess what, Veidt has hops too. Look specifically at .16/.33 seconds in. It may not be as high as Neo or Morpheus' jumps but who's saying he was putting in supreme effort like they were?

I had to go back to this point because I completely forgot about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9Nh0Fvoe9k

I covered "the jump" already. It's not applicable to H2H combat.

Originally posted by jaden101
Your only strength feat is that he kicks Rorschach about 10 feet...Then there's the other one when he throws a sturdy, heavy looking chair at Nite Owl.

Would have been further if that wall wasn't in the way where Rorschach collided with it. Also, notice how Rorschach's face is altered when kicked. That along with slamming Blake's head through marble and throwing Blake around with ease like he were a ragdoll. Something no one here other than Smith can attest to.

I said he was stronger than Morpheus and Trinity, not Smith.

Originally posted by Placidity
0:33 = Kick

Originally posted by DarkNemesis
Morpheus' kick to Neo in the dojo was far harder than Ozy's kick to Rorschach.

Would have been further if that wall wasn't in the way where Rorschach collided with it.

And Morpheus would've kicked Neo further if it wasn't for the wooden column....Trinity would've kicked the 2 cops further if it wasn't for the wall...In both cases the opponents were kicked as far or further, were lifted higher off the ground and hit the wall/post with greater force than Rorschach did from Ozy's kick.

Also, notice how Rorschach's face is altered when kicked.

His mask alters when nothing is getting done it...Odd argument.

Reasoning?

As above.

I covered "the jump" already. It's not applicable to H2H combat.

Morpheus does it with minimal effort...He even smirks after it. Your argument was that it took huge amounts of effort....Clearly not the case.

I notice you've skipped over an awful lot of arguments against your case...Namely the agent smashing the car to pieces...Trinity's kick against the 2 police officers...Morpheus kicking the agent off the truck...

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Reasoning?

Neo flew much farther than Rorschach, by far.

YouTube video

Look at 0:43, Morpheus was standing approximately where Neo is standing right now when he kicked Neo and sent him flying right into the (our) left-most pillar and severely snapped it in the process. That HAS to be at least 40 feet.

YouTube video

If you pause at 1:07, Veidt's kick on Rorschach was 20 feet at the very most (observing the distance between the screens and where Rorschach is lying).

You acknowledged that Rorschach would've flown further had it not been for the angled kick into the wall. Fair enough, but Neo would have also flown much further had it not been for the wooden pillar, considering how badly damaged said pillar was.

Okay, consider then the ricochet effect that Rorschach's body underwent after coming into contact with the wall compared to Neo's hitting the pillar.

I never said "the jump" required a huge amount of effort. The kicking the Agent off the truck had already been covered by someone else. Morpheus got a running start of what looked like 20 feet. The Agent also being unaware helped.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
Okay, consider then the ricochet effect that Rorschach's body underwent after coming into contact with the wall compared to Neo's hitting the pillar.

I never said "the jump" required a huge amount of effort. The kicking the Agent off the truck had already been covered by someone else. Morpheus got a running start of what looked like 20 feet. The Agent also being unaware helped.

Why are you even still trying to argue that Ozymandias' kick was more powerful?...It couldn't be more clear that it isn't.

How do you get a running start of 20ft jumping off the front of a car?

Momentum negates the movement of the car and the truck as they were going at the same speed and it also reduces the effect of Morpheus jumping backward in relation to the truck and car as momentum would have him actually still moving forward in relation to the ground.

In relation to Morpheus' kick compared with Ozymandias...Who travels further...Neo or Rorschach?...Neo...Who is lifted further off the ground?...Neo...Who impacts with more force?....Neo.

In relation to Trinity's kick...It made the cop she kicks travel further than Rorschach....he then hits the 2nd cop with enough force to lift him off the ground and send both of them flying into the wall which then has a huge hole in it from where they impacted.

Yet here's you arguing that Rorschach flying 8 feet and hitting a stone pillar and then bouncing off it another few feet is more powerful.

He does have another couple of good kicks in that fight but none of them match the power of either Morpheus' kick against Neo, Trinity's kick against the cops, Morpheus' kick against the agent or any of Smith's big punches against Neo. Or, for that matter, any of the agent's big punches against Morpheus on the roof of the truck.

I also don't see the kick off the truck being addressed by anyone.

Did he not fly 15-20 feet?

Regardless, Trinity was easily taken out by the Twin in Reloaded.

Besides Veidt refusing defend himself against Dan's punches, no, he has no durability feats. He was never hit by anyone. Comedian suprised him and pushed him into a wall but failed to lany any blows.

The final punch from the Agent on Morpheus was more powerful than anything Veidt has shown, granted, but that was an upgraded Agent(broke the steel door, not Smith). If Veidt wanted, he could have sent Morpheus off the truck too.