France: women clad in veils are not our idea of feminine equality. rail thin coke addicted models who attempt to look just barely legal, however, are completely reasonable and pose no issue to female identity.
the lesson is obviously then that Muslim men need to do more to physically objectify women like we do in the west, rather than this heathen spiritual objectification. who cares if it is a symbol of holy purity to them, I wants my titties
Re: French parliament approves face veil ban
This reminds me of a news story a friend emailed me a while back:
veils are offensive to me simply because the majority of women wearing them are doing it because theyve been told they must. If they were not told about veils until the age of say..18 (considered an adult) and could make their own choice, id be all for it, the veil in most islamic socioties does not represent a step towards equality and i don't care what anyone says. Freedom has to be regulated, i know thats a kinda hypocritical but it does. The French government have rights too don't they? Next step? ban all religious teachings until the age of 18. Let people make up there own minds, dont indoctrinate them at age 3 with hellfire speech. 😛
Originally posted by Juk3n
veils are offensive to me simply because the majority of women wearing them are doing it because theyve been told they must. If they were not told about veils until the age of say..18 (considered an adult) and could make their own choice, id be all for it, the veil in most islamic socioties does not represent a step towards equality and i don't care what anyone says.
Originally posted by Juk3nThey do it because they are educated to do it just like you wear clothes because you were educated to do it. It is considered obscene - quite idiotically in my opinion - and criminal to walk arround naked in almost every society in the world now, but that is not viewed as opression. Believe ir or not, even if the veil and maybe even the burkha were no longer mandatory and not using it carried no perspective of sanctions, the majority of the women from the sects and cultures that traditionally wear it would keep wearing it. It is simply ingrained in their culture.
veils are offensive to me simply because the majority of women wearing them are doing it because theyve been told they must. If they were not told about veils until the age of say..18 (considered an adult) and could make their own choice, id be all for it, the veil in most islamic socioties does not represent a step towards equality and i don't care what anyone says. Freedom has to be regulated, i know thats a kinda hypocritical but it does. The French government have rights too don't they? Next step? ban all religious teachings until the age of 18. Let people make up there own minds, dont indoctrinate them at age 3 with hellfire speech. 😛
Furthermore, by prohibiting the use of the veil, the french government is actually forcing them to go against what most actually believe to be proper behavior and violate their interpretations of religious comandments. So it is violating their right to freedom of conscience and religion while claiming to be protecting those rights. The same crap that can be seen in official speech legitimizing all colonization and compulsory religious conversion throughout history - it is for the sake of trhe ones we opress, we are saving them from their own damned stupidity by making them more like us.
This bullshit law has as much legitimacy as forcing them to eat pork because its the favourite diet in france and a matter of cultural identity they must adhere to if they want to live in the country.
Originally posted by 753
they must adhere to if they want to live in the country.
why should it be any other way? It's up to the French government to decide how they want French citizens to behave is it not? I hear Saudi Arabia is great all year around, with the added bonus of being BEATEN into wearing a Burqa, sounds like a mussies dream place huh? YEEAAAHH BOOOOII.
Originally posted by Juk3n
veils are offensive to me simply because the majority of women wearing them are doing it because theyve been told they must. If they were not told about veils until the age of say..18 (considered an adult) and could make their own choice, id be all for it, the veil in most islamic socioties does not represent a step towards equality and i don't care what anyone says. Freedom has to be regulated, i know thats a kinda hypocritical but it does. The French government have rights too don't they? Next step? ban all religious teachings until the age of 18. Let people make up there own minds, dont indoctrinate them at age 3 with hellfire speech. 😛
what evidence do you have to suggest that most veiled French women actually do so because of force?
as a follow up, how does banning the veil actually empower these women against oppressive patriarchs.
Originally posted by Juk3n
why should it be any other way? It's up to the French government to decide how they want French citizens to behave is it not?
No, it's not.
I hear Saudi Arabia is great all year around, with the added bonus of being BEATEN into wearing a Burqa, sounds like a mussies dream place huh? YEEAAAHH BOOOOII.
Is there a point somewhere in here?
Originally posted by inimalistas a follow up, how does banning the veil actually empower these women against oppressive patriarchs.
bcause the argument would become "see, we're not wearing our veils in France and nothin bad is happenng, the wives are still loyal even though the guy in the supermarket saw my mouth as i said thank you for my change" As i said before, people born into oppression usually don't know they're being oppressed. Im tired of peple having to tread on eggshells because some thing is 'cultural' , being cultural doesn't mean correct or just. There was even some talk in islamic circles in iran to make women wear a veil that covers one eye aswell, because " a women could seduce a man with her eyes, and cause themselves to be raped " - id bet many muslim women would find the very noton ridiculous, but nonetheless would have to go through with it.
All im saying is once women realize that te world isnt going to end if they take there veils off and men won't suddenly rape them to death because there hair and there nike sweater can be seen, they might start to question a few other imposed 'cultural' laws and regulations.
Supposedly (looking for a source) at least 25% of Muslim women in France who wear a full burqua are actually converts from other religions and presumably knew a bit about Islam before converting (and neccessarily knew a lot about not being Muslim and not wearing the burqua).
I also find it funny that ~2000 people wear the full burqua in all of France. Do laws usually effect 0.003% of the population?
Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't know, how many teachers rape the children they are in charge of?
Not the same at all. The only valid rationale behind laws against sexual abuse of children is the protection of the rights of all the children. Therefore they are all effected by the law.
This law on the other hand is specifically designed to target and effect a very small minority of the population on the basis of a religious practice.
Originally posted by Mindship
That was my impression. It's like wearing a mask.
so, what you are saying is:
prior to this law, if a police officer thought a Muslim women with a veil acting suspiciously, he was unable to ask the woman to identify and explain herself?
like, I shave my head, I can put up a hood and wear large aviator glasses, and I become fairly unidentifiable. the only reason this should ever warrant a police officer questioning me would be if I were acting in a way that was suspicious. otherwise, we are talking about matters of taste.
I'd also like some evidence that Muslim women pose a real security threat in France, and if they do, how this law does anything to prevent that threat... especially if things like scarves and sunglasses are still legal
Originally posted by 753
Not the same at all. The only valid rationale behind laws against sexual abuse of children is the protection of the rights of all the children. Therefore they are all effected by the law.This law on the other hand is specifically designed to target and effect a very small minority of the population on the basis of a religious practice.
He was the one asking about other laws, I wondered whether he was right, so I stated that I could imagine that there are certain laws targeting a small group.