Captain America vs Batgirl

Started by Deadline7 pages

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
Pretty sure he hasn't.

Cap is considered the greatest living martial artist on earth by his peers, he has explicitly stated he is a master of every known form of combat and he is even considered more skilled than than a handful of people who are also more skilled than Batgirl. Marvel's ocean of street level martial arts talent is [b]much deeper than DCs. People like to pretend than Batman = Captain America to indulge their fanboy fantasies but that simply isn't the case. Captain America is more skilled than Shang-Chi... and Shang-Chi would easily be the most skilled street in the DC U if he was transfered over. Do the math. [/B]

I think you're going overboard here. No I think you're wrong.

👆

Originally posted by Deadline
I think you're going overboard here. No I think you're wrong.

I don't think so.

You can easily draw several parallels between characters who are very similar in both their physical attributes as well as their relative skill level in Marvel and DC (Daredevil = Batman, Shang-Chi = Dragon ect). I mean Shang-Chi is virtually a perfect analog of Richard Dragon, his early Master of Kung-Fu and Deadly Hands showings virtually mirror Dragon's own feats (Shang's more recent feats are much, much, much more impressive, but go with it anyway), but unlike Richard Dragon, who is at the top of the heap in the DC hierarchy, Shang-Chi is somewhere closer to the middle of Marvels Top 10. Marvel has several MA's who are above the level where DC's cap out.

Originally posted by Hank_Henshaw
but he's not on the same level as Cassie in H2H

Prove this.

Originally posted by Juk3n
Lucky for Steve then, he isnt normal. 😛

Yea, but he's never had his brain re-wired and he doesn't have that body language reading ability.

Cass has mental abilities he doesn't, plain and simple.

srankmissingnin
but unlike Richard Dragon, who is at the top of the heap in the DC hierarchy,

In the 70s.

In terms of feats, Cassandra definitely has higher than him.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, but he's never had his brain re-wired and he doesn't have that body language reading ability.

Cass has mental abilities he doesn't, plain and simple.

Um SSS? Enhanced intelligence? Mastered an alien martial art in one day?

WRONG!!

Originally posted by Konton
Batman has labeled her the most skilled martial artist alive.

Bats would have meant the best best MA alive in the DC universe. Outside of non canon crossovers, he hasn't met Steve-who is on par with Cassie in speed and h2h skill while stronger, more durable and with greater stamina.
Cap takes Batgirl in both scenarios. Not easily, but I can't see him losing.

Originally posted by Deadline
Um SSS? Enhanced intelligence? Mastered an alien martial art in one day?

WRONG!!

Yea, those are different mental abilities than hers, body language reading and mentally impossible focus on multiple moves at once isn't on that list.

And Cassandra has master martial arts in minutes.

Originally posted by Q99
Yea, those are different mental abilities than hers, body language reading and mentally impossible focus on multiple moves at once isn't on that list.

Oh I see. Cap doesn't have the same abilities that she does so that automatically makes him inferior? No it doesnt. Actually he most likely can do that as well since even in the real world they teach you that shit.

Originally posted by Q99

And Cassandra has master martial arts in minutes.

Um alien martial art > earth based one

She can't accurately read Slade's movement, and she'd be pretty much in the exact same boat with Captain America as his physiology and metabolism - like Slade's - are similarly enhanced by the SSS.

And honestly her "mentally impossible focus on multiple moves at once" is just an ability to multi-task a large number of actions all at once without diminishing returns. It isn't really something mutually exclusive to her, virtually all streets are on similar platue. Captain America for instance preforms Olympic gold metal worthy acrobatic feats while throwing his shield like it was shot of a canon with pinpoint accuracy... while he calculates crazy trajectories so that it ricochets exactly where he wants it to and then comes back to him in the end.

Originally posted by Deadline
Um alien martial art > earth based one

Not necessarily in terms of effectiveness and lethality but in terms of which would be more difficult to learn you are 100% right. Many earth based martial arts share a common ancestry across certain disciplines and having learned a one style you would already have the building blocks in place to make learning another much easier. An alien martial art would theoretically be a completely foreign discipline with its own inherent rules and philosophies that would have nothing in common with the styles of earth.

Learning Spanish is going to be easy if you already know French... but Speaking French isn't going to help you at all to learn Klingon.

Cap takes both rather easily.

Originally posted by Deadline
Oh I see. Cap doesn't have the same abilities that she does so that automatically makes him inferior? No it doesnt.

It does make the abilities different. Now, does she have his tactical ability that's boosted by the SSS like his does? No.

Does his have all of the advantages hers gives? Also no.

They're different abilities that give different advantages, and some of those advantages are more martial arts oriented than the ones his does.

Actually he most likely can do that as well since even in the real world they teach you that shit.

Not to the same level, in practice her stuff functions like a combination of pre-cog and telepathy.

That's the thing, her brain being wired differently gives her body language reading at a level significantly in excess of people like Batman.

It's taking something top-level comic martial artists do, then cranking it up to 13 above that by dedicating an entire different section of her brain to it.

And part of this is her brain can do normally impossible levels of multi-tasking when doing martial arts too. Again, normally impossible even for top-level comic martial artists.


Um alien martial art > earth based one

She has taskmaster's ability as a side effect of her other advantages.

srankmissingnin
She can't accurately read Slade's movement, and she'd be pretty much in the exact same boat with Captain America as his physiology and metabolism - like Slade's - are similarly enhanced by the SSS.

The same Slade that has never won a fight against her? While armed?

It's harder to read him, but she manages to do well enough to not be defeated by him in any of their fights.

Also I'll point out Slade's and CA's powers aren't exactly the same, he has his entirely different brain thing (different from either of these two others) too which may be part of the issue, but in any case, it's never gotten him so much as a single win even with sword, gun, and so on.

steve eats her alive.

cassy rips bucky arm off most of the time..

also DD has a hard time reading cap's body physiology due to the SSS.. cass would have same problem due to his speed reflex and mental kinetics

Originally posted by Juk3n
Prove this.

The fact that she can wound Batman before he can even blink, make Slade look silly in H2H, and defeat her mother (who's arguably the 2nd or 3rd best fighter in the DCU). Cap doesn't even have any pressure-point feats and Daredevil has even owned him in H2H before.

when did she wound bats b4 he could blink? only time i remember anything close to that was when bats sparred with her and told her she was out of shape as he coughed blood from the minor training session..

Originally posted by King Castle
when did she wound bats b4 he could blink? only time i remember anything close to that was when bats sparred with her and told her she was out of shape as he coughed blood from the minor training session..

You're right, my bad, that was the one feat from the three I listed that came from a comic I didn't read.

Seriously, someone's going to have to prove that Cap's on par with her in H2H, and it can't be with that statement he made in the Silver-Age regarding him being adept at every form of martial arts.

Let's not compare DD's ability to read physiology to Cassie's body reading. Nowhere near the same.

Originally posted by Konton
Let's not compare DD's ability to read physiology to Cassie's body reading. Nowhere near the same.

I never did, just pointing out the fact that Cap has lost to him before.