Obi-Wan vs Mace Windu
Who wins in sabers only? Vaapad vs the Master of Soresu? And yes Shatterpoint for Mace can be used. And if it's unfair then do a scenario without Shatterpoint.
I've seen Obi-Wan quite overrated on other forums but thankfully not as much here. But I want to know if he can take on Mace.
While Vaapad would still allow Mace to channel his own inner darkness and employ it in this battle (a trait which would normally give him a decisive edge), I can't say that I'm convinced he'd win. What it really comes down to for me is that I can't see Vaapad penetrating the defensive wall Obi-Wan's Soresu creates.
Mace himself even said that out of all living Jedi, Obi-Wan had the best chance at defeating General Grievous (saber to saber); moreso then even himself or Yoda -- and Mace should know. He had previously battled GG (unsuccessfully) during Labyrinth of Evil. Anyway, it wasn't until Grievous began his '20 saber strikes per second' that he even started to overwhelm Obi-Wan's defenses -- and even then Obi was able to counter (on the fly) by turning his nigh-impenetrable defense into a very solid and capable offense, of which he used to rapidly sever most of GG's appendages... (As I hinted at above, Mace didn't have the same type of luck in his battle with the General.)
So yeah, while this would probably be a very long and drawn out battle, I think Obi-Wan would ultimately come out on top... And I'm not even going to get into the "maybe's" associated with Shatterpoint, thus I didn't factor it into my decision.
Originally posted by Galan007
While Vaapad would still allow Mace to channel his own inner darkness and employ it in this battle (a trait which would normally give him a decisive edge), I can't say that I'm convinced he'd win. What it really comes down to for me is that I can't see Vaapad penetrating the defensive wall Obi-Wan's Soresu creates.
I agree. Also, did vaapad not factor in the opponent's darkness, of which Obi-Wan had none so that would not help Mace he would just have to hope his own darkness is enough. Obi-Wan would win tho in the end as Mace would get tired as vaapad is energy consuming.
Originally posted by Galan007
While Vaapad would still allow Mace to channel his own inner darkness and employ it in this battle (a trait which would normally give him a decisive edge), I can't say that I'm convinced he'd win. What it really comes down to for me is that I can't see Vaapad penetrating the defensive wall Obi-Wan's Soresu creates.Mace himself even said that out of all living Jedi, Obi-Wan had the best chance at defeating General Grievous (saber to saber); moreso then even himself or Yoda -- and Mace should know. He had previously battled GG (unsuccessfully) during Labyrinth of Evil. Anyway, it wasn't until Grievous began his '20 saber strikes per second' that he even started to overwhelm Obi-Wan's defenses -- and even then Obi was able to counter (on the fly) by turning his nigh-impenetrable defense into a very solid and capable offense, of which he used to rapidly sever most of GG's appendages... (As I hinted at above, Mace didn't have the same type of luck in his battle with the General.)
So yeah, while this would probably be a very long and drawn out battle, I think Obi-Wan would ultimately come out on top... And I'm not even going to get into the "maybe's" associated with Shatterpoint, thus I didn't factor it into my decision.
I see Kenobi holding Mace off for a little bit, but not nealry long enough to tire Mace out. Mace would overwhelm Kenobi in short order, if not in sabers, then in combination w/ his Force usage.
Originally posted by Master_GalenI doubt Mace would get that tired. Even in his battle with Palpatine, there was "not even the possibility of fatigue."
Obi-Wan would win tho in the end as Mace would get tired as vaapad is energy consuming.
Originally posted by Jinsoku TakaiWhat force usage? This is a 'sabers only' match.
I see Kenobi holding Mace off for a little bit, but not nealry long enough to tire Mace out. Mace would overwhelm Kenobi in short order, if not in sabers, then in combination w/ his Force usage.
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Originally posted by Zampanó
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1 cann0t agr33 that 081 K3n081 w1ll 83 capa8l3
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cr1t1cal m1stak3. Th3 "20 str1k3s/s3c0nd"
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How many hours did this take you to type?
Originally posted by ZampanóYeah that's been brought up before. I think the main argument is that it's canon because it doesn't directly contradict the film. It's the same reason Palpatine and Mace moving at 'blur-esque' speeds in thier battle is generally regarded as canon. Could we see them moving that fast in the film? No. But does them moving at the aforementioned speeds in the novel directly contradict the film? No.
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I dunno. srug
Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah that's been brought up before. I think the main argument is that it's canon because it doesn't directly contradict the film. It's the same reason Palpatine and Mace moving at 'blur-esque' speeds in thier battle is generally regarded as canon. Could we see them moving that fast in the film? No. But does them moving at the aforementioned speeds in the novel directly contradict the film? No.I dunno. srug
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Originally posted by ZampanóThis typing style makes me want to have a seizure and possibly shit myself. Interesting.
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Anyway, I've always regarded the 20 strikes per second scene as canon, just as I have always regarded Mace/Palpatine fighting as blurs, canon. Regardless of the canonicity, it has little to no impact on my main point(s):
*Mace stated that out of all living Jedi (even himself or Yoda), Obi-Wan had the best chances of beating Grievous.
*Mace battled Grievous in an environment where he wasn't able to use the force in an offensive manner, and had to duel him one on one. Despite Vaapad, Mace was still unable to prevail.
*Obi-Wan all but embarrassed Grievous in their duel.
....So there. pfft
Originally posted by Galan007
This typing style makes me want to have a seizure and possibly shit myself. Interesting.
😄
Anyway, I've always regarded the 20 strikes per second scene as canon, just as I have always regarded Mace/Palpatine fighting as blurs, canon. Regardless of the canonicity, it has little to no impact on my main point(s):
*Mace stated that out of all living Jedi (even himself or Yoda), Obi-Wan had the best chances of beating Grievous.
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*Mace battled Grievous in an environment where he wasn't able to use the force in an offensive manner, and had to duel him one on one. Despite Vaapad, Mace was still unable to prevail.*Obi-Wan all but embarrassed Grievous in their duel.
....So there. pfft
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Originally posted by ZampanóI don't need to find more evidence, actually. It's your turn to provide evidence pertaining to how Mace would win (if that is, in fact, your opinion.) 😉
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[edit]
And I'm not using ABC logic. Mace has dueled GG. Obi-Wan has dueled GG. Mace barely managed to hold his own. Obi-Wan dominated. GG is the only common denominator between Mace/Obi, thus it's logical to use him as a bearing for their lightsaber skill.