Originally posted by ares834
Prove that any of these planets Sion died on were not a dark side nexus. Here is the proof for his recarnation ability only really working on a planet full of dark side energies.
Wow. Last time I checked, asking people to disprove your thesis in order to win a debate was considered a logical fallacy. Did that change recently? Otherwise it would be your turn to prove that Sion can only perform this action close to a Dark Side nexus. And without even mentioning the fact that he performed this stuff from the days of Kun on (45 year until KotoR II), I could just point at the games prologue. You do realize that Sion is getting blown into pieces on board the Harbinger when the asteroid field around Peragus II explodes? As we know, he does obviously survive that. Where was the dark side nexus in that incident, which is - actually - much more dramatic then receiving a few instantly cauterized lightsaber stabs through the body?
Exile: I will not run from that corpse.
Kreia: There will be another time. Not now, not here, while Korriban runs through himand later on on Malachor V.
Sion: As long as the dark places of this world flow through the cracks of my flesh, I can not be killed.
These quotes clearly show that it is on worlds strong in the dark side that he has this power.
Yes. What they don't show is, that he doesn't have that power when he isn't on such worlds. We even have evidence to the contrary. But if you want a more logical and rational approach to this: We know that Sion discovered this special ability in the days in which he served as Sith marauder under Exar Kun. That's 45 years before his death. We also know that he did hunt Jedi across the entire Galaxy. So, for your argument to work, you'd have to assume that:
- Sion did just operate on worlds with a dark side nexus in the past 45 years.
- Sion did confront the Jedi and got "killed" only on worlds with a dark side nexus.
While one could attempt to argue utilizing the first premise, an argument based on the second premise clearly doesn't fly. Jedi wouldn't hide near a dark side nexus, because they would put any possible attacker into a position of advantage (Sith and Dark Jedi benefitting from the nexus), which doesn't make sense.
As Kreia claims he can be defeaed on Korriban suggesting that at other places he can be, and Sion himself states it is Malachor V's power that allows him to keep himslef alive. Sure he may be able to preform it on other planets, but not as often. Heck, even on Malachor V he is not completlley invincible.
Wow.
I'd call this arguing in circles, because before even attempting to come up with an argument why Durge would win, you do already assume that he's capable of killing Sion once. Do I really need to remind the people here, that Durge failed to overpower Kenobi and Skywalker again and again, even when having the benefit of launching an ambush on them? Do I need to remind you, that Grievous did defeat Durge and put him into a state where he needed Bacta treatment to be able to participate in the Clone Wars again (by beheading the bounty hunter)? Do I need to remind everybody that Durge needs time to recover from serious injuries, which is quite evident from the fact that it took him almost a century to recover from Mandalorian torture? The guy doesn't simple re-assemble himself in the matter of seconds like the T-1000 did in Terminator II. On the other handside: Sion does recover in the matter of seconds, apparently from any injury dealt to him.
After being told he is weakening.
Sion: I... I still have the power to stop you. The Force runs strong through the screaming canyons of Malachor.Then the next time you defeat him, he is on his hands and knees rather than standing clearly he is weakening even though he is drawing upon the dark power on Malachor.
Again: This kind of argument implies that Durge is capable of defeating Sion in a straight-forward fight, when he has lost against every halfway decent duellist in the saga. So why do you think he could "kill" Sion, before the Sith Lord utilizes his lightsaber skill or dark side powers to put Durge out of combat (into a state where he needs a long-term rest to recover)? Turning this into a "who is closer to immortality" contest would neither solve this match, nor would that kind of argument take the full abilities of both combatants into consideration.
And even if you want to turn it into such a kind of contest: We've seen multiple actions that at least temporarily took Durge out (blowing him up, incinerating him, beheading him, torturing him), but there is just one thing that took Sion out (completely) and that was the Exile talking him to death, which Durge can't replicate, unless you want to assume that Sion develops a love interest for the bounty hunter...Every other method? Really. If neither lightsabers nor large scale explosion in outer space can do the job, how do you think Durge will be able to kill Sion?
Lettum, your argument is still
"We have no evidence that he couldn't survive without a head."
You have very little to be happy about.
Sion clearly had his head at the end of each exchange with the exile, so we have no proof that he ever had his head cut off. He also had his head when found dead onboard the Republic Cruiser.
As it stands, if he has his head cut off, there is zero reason to believe he would survive.
Originally posted by Borbarad
Wow. Last time I checked, asking people to disprove your thesis in order to win a debate was considered a logical fallacy. Did that change recently? Otherwise it would be your turn to prove that Sion can only perform this action close to a Dark Side nexus.
Both places that he has survived a duel in which he is regenerating, he has been on a dark-side Nexus. Until you can prove he has done it anywhere else, then the burden of proof would lie on you.
And without even mentioning the fact that he performed this stuff from the days of Kun on (45 year until KotoR II), I could just point at the games prologue. You do realize that Sion is getting blown into pieces on board the Harbinger when the asteroid field around Peragus II explodes? As we know, he does obviously survive that.
I'm surprised at you. You didn't read the thread, did you? We have spent pages arguing that already. There is absolutely no proof that Sion was onboard the Harbringer. The last time we saw him, he was with Kreia. She got off, so it is clear that he could have as well.
Where was the dark side nexus in that incident, which is - actually - much more dramatic then receiving a few instantly cauterized lightsaber stabs through the body?
This would be an argument winning point if Kreia hadn't left the fight with Sion escaped the Harbringer. Since she had time to get away, there was obviously time for Sion to do the same.
Yes. What they don't show is, that he doesn't have that power when he isn't on such worlds. We even have evidence to the contrary.
We obviously can't prove a negative. Burden of proof falls to you to prove he could do it anywhere else. All game examples and in-universe quotations support an argument that it can only be done in a darkside nexus. If you have evidence that he can perform it elsewhere, be forthcoming, otherwise you hang this argument on the fact that we cannot prove a negative.
But if you want a more logical and rational approach to this: We know that Sion discovered this special ability in the days in which he served as Sith marauder under Exar Kun. That's 45 years before his death. We also know that he did hunt Jedi across the entire Galaxy. So, for your argument to work, you'd have to assume that:- Sion did just operate on worlds with a dark side nexus in the past 45 years.
No, it is going to be option B.
- Sion did confront the Jedi and got "killed" only on worlds with a dark side nexus.
Exactly. The in-universe quotes seem to make this clear. If you have evidence to the contrary, please, present it.
While one could attempt to argue utilizing the first premise, an argument based on the second premise clearly doesn't fly. Jedi wouldn't hide near a dark side nexus, because they would put any possible attacker into a position of advantage (Sith and Dark Jedi benefitting from the nexus), which doesn't make sense.
Oops. Where did Yoda hide again? Why did he hide there? And it worked. retract that one.
i think so, so it is believed if his head was cut completely off, and then taken from him, that he would be screwed.
Unless you are suggesting the lightsaber goes through the flesh with the flesh reforming around it as it cuts?
That's a pretty interesting thought right there actually.
Still, a shot to the brain should still kill him, because if he loses consciousness, he can't use the will to hold himself together, and if has a lightsaber sized chunk in the middle of his brain at any given time, it takes away too many functions to give him control of his person.
Originally posted by Nephthys
That must be why they're still around and kickin' our arses, amiright?
Everybody knows the reason that the old guard is gone is because of semi-draconian rules of flaming.
However, as much as the staff has gotten overzealous, just as much of it was justified.
They are gone because of there intolerance of stupidity. Nothing else.
Originally posted by truejedi
i think so, so it is believed if his head was cut completely off, and then taken from him, that he would be screwed.Unless you are suggesting the lightsaber goes through the flesh with the flesh reforming around it as it cuts?
That's a pretty interesting thought right there actually.
Still, a shot to the brain should still kill him, because if he loses consciousness, he can't use the will to hold himself together, and if has a lightsaber sized chunk in the middle of his brain at any given time, it takes away too many functions to give him control of his person.
Proof his consisuosness is till tied to his brain, something that by all physical evidence, has likely rotted away by now?
Originally posted by Letum Lettow
Proof his consisuosness is till tied to his brain, something that by all physical evidence, has likely rotted away by now?
you don't understand burden of proof. Since consciousness IS tied to the brain, you would have to prove it is otherwise with Sion before we can even begin to assume that it isn't.
For instance: How can you prove that Sidious's conciousness is tied to his brain? You cannot. Therefore to assume that cutting of his head would kill him is fallacious, according to the line of thinking you are attempting to go down here.
You would have to offer proof to the contrary in order to change the norm which clearly states human conciousness is found in the brain.
You are bad at this. The best thing you have done is cheerlead Nai. Nai is a good debator. Watch him more, post less. This would be to your advantage.