Originally posted by jinzinIt all comes down to lowballing Bleach and making out WW to be > Superman... Which is a nonsense argument for a character who's had problems tackling the US military. 😐
Also nice job strawmanning. No one here ever said WW was > Superman.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
There's amazing irony in this snippet.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Also nice job strawmanning. No one here ever said WW was > Superman.
it's not a strawman, just trying to make my point more effective... of course it's lost on you... But when you guys are arguing that Diana's at Flash level speeds....
Originally posted by jinzin
Yeah I know that was kinda.... y'know... the point. 😐it's not a strawman, just trying to make my point more effective... of course it's lost on you... But when you guys are arguing that Diana's at Flash level speeds....
It is a strawman when you attempt to paint an exaggerated picture of your opponent's position.
Originally posted by marwash22
Jinzin, you're not gonna convince any of these people, their minds have been made up...
Originally posted by Omega Vision
So the point was to come off as a hypocrite? If so mission accomplished.It is a strawman when you attempt to paint an exaggerated picture of your opponent's position.
Uh no... The point was to put up for display the MASS problem of lowballing characters like Bleach when you're a character like Wonderwoman.... ala DBZ:
Which is to say for instance... that Bleach characters only have low showings due to plot holes caused by geometric powerups throughout the series.. alternatively they don't have low showings caused as a byproduct of having problems with a guy like Batman or Slade... Could Wonderwoman say the same? Nope.
He's trying to make Wonderwoman's fighting speed to look comparible to Superman's fighting speed... who he himself doesn't fight at light speed... so it's not entirely an exaggeration.
Originally posted by marwash22The issue is essentially you have a dozen or so mid-to-high meta characters against a mid-to-high herald. And their Haxx powers are ill-suited to deal with her.
Jinzin, you're not gonna convince any of these people, their minds have been made up...
It's like a dozen Iron-Men suits vs Wonder Woman. WW still wins.
Originally posted by marwash22
Jinzin, you're not gonna convince any of these people, their minds have been made up...
Yeah... I can see that.
Just thought I would throw in my two cents as to how absurd the position of defending Diana in this thread truly is.
How the hell she's supposed to fend off hundreds of cero's, hundreds of thousands of blade petals, toxic gases, Hado, Kido, resist hypnosis, spiritual pressure, and defends herself from multiple top tier skilled fighters using massive levels of power, strength and speed, AND all without the use of her senses.... well.... it's beyond me... but I guess a rope and a tiara gotta count for somethin.... 😕
Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The issue is essentially you have a dozen or so mid-to-high meta characters against a mid-to-high herald. And their Haxx powers are ill-suited to deal with her.It's like a dozen Iron-Men suits vs Wonder Woman. WW still wins.
Which Iron Man cause I would hesitate to make that argument. 😬
Originally posted by jinzin
Uh no... The point was to put up for display the MASS problem of lowballing characters like Bleach when you're a character like Wonderwoman.... ala DBZ:
Which is to say for instance... that Bleach characters only have low showings due to plot holes caused by geometric powerups throughout the series.. alternatively they don't have low showings caused as a byproduct of having problems with a guy like Batman or Slade... Could Wonderwoman say the same? Nope.
He's trying to make Wonderwoman's fighting speed to look comparible to Superman's fighting speed... who he himself doesn't fight at light speed... so it's not entirely an exaggeration.
It is a malicious exaggeration for you to say that anyone at any point said or suggested that Wonder Woman was superior to Superman when no such statement was made.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
Are you defending the use of lowballing Wonder Woman as a counter for the perceived lowballing of Bleach characters in the name of some kind of balance of douchebaggery? I'm not entirely sure what you're arguing here. Maybe it's the poor way you construct your arguments.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
They do have comparable speed, bub.It is a malicious exaggeration for you to say that anyone at any point said or suggested that Wonder Woman was superior to Superman when no such statement was made.
They have comparable speed? Sure.
They have comparible fighting speeds? Absolutely...
Do either of them fight at FTL? Hell no... 😐
Originally posted by jinzin
How am I defending it? I didn't state that I wasn't lowballing her. I flat out insisted that I was... If you can't understand why I did it after I just explained why, I'm not sure how else I can help you...
If you can provide solid evidence for the Bleach crew winning here without having to resort to selling Wonder Woman short then you might have a decent argument.
Originally posted by Omega Vision
What I don't understand is how you think that tactic is effective at not making you look like a douchebag.
Well given your presence in this thread thus far I can only trust that you're the expert on douchebaggery around here.. so if you say it's so how could I argue? 😉
Originally posted by Omega Visionyou're not the final arbiter on what does and does not constitute a good argument!
What I don't understand is how you think that tactic is effective at not making you look like a douchebag.If you can provide solid evidence for the Bleach crew winning here without having to resort to selling Wonder Woman short then you might have a decent argument.
Originally posted by jinzin
Like with Circe? No?
What example are you thinking of?
Circe has altered herself, but she doesn't cast illusions on Diana.
That is to say, if Aizen's illusions were projected but not on the target (that is, made images around the targets), it might take some time to notice, but something that alters the target's senses (that is, works on Diana directly) works against it.
She has a built up immunity to some people and not others. Her ability to resist hypnosis as always been a point to her will... and she won't even know that's what he's doing... He doesn't just cast illusions he creates complete hypnosis.
And if she even brushes against her lasso, it'll break. His hypnosis doesn't stop movement.
Where does it say the captain are due to die of old age? 😕
They're spirits already passed over to the other side... His abilities made no distinction there..
They still age (view Old Man Yama or Byakuya's grandfather), the point is specifically made they're long-lived but not actually immortal.
High spiritual pressure slows down but does not stop age. Their total lifespan probably is in the tens of thousands of years.
Diana will still be alive in eight hundred thousand+ years, canon. She does not age and will live until killed, and has utterly ignored abilities that instantly age targets to death without any effect.
Scans?
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228560_ww2143vszoom0tp/
[url]http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228697_ww2148vszoom2wc/
He's not "hitting" her 🤨
She's taken blade hits from stronger.
She doesn't have the durability to no-sell his blade.. that's all there is to it.
She doesn't no-sell them (if they're powerful enough and wielded by super strong foes) but they definitely do not one-shot her.
One doesn't have to be totally immune to something in order to not be taken out by them easily.
Again, some of her most common enemies, with physical strength much beyond Tousen, use cutting attacks. I must've somehow missed the part where Cheetah kills her in every encounter.
Superman doesn't "fight" at light speed.. and he's not fought her at light speed. 😐
They flew to the sun and back in Sacrifice in under a minute.
Anyway, doesn't really matter, I'm not arguing that she fights FTL or anything. WW does not have to to win.
She's never "fought" at FTL... 😐
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/35/1228739_672x1020.jpg
Catches up to and lasso a speedster at the speed force, which can only be gotten to by reaching the light barrier.
Ties up Amazo before Superman can blink
My argument here? That she will not have a problem with their speed, and almost certainly has some noticeable speed edge.
That does not require FTL fighting or anything.
Likewise... Speed isn't a mass determining factor here... Again it's what compounded on top of that.
And in that, she has plenty of advantages. Better reflexes (she's hit Flash on many occasions and has reflexes stated to be higher than Superman's, what makes you think she's not going to block most of the attacks?), excellent defense (bracers, which you seem to be forgetting on the defense side), higher toughness, higher strength.
Plus she has a number of hax abilities you've not really thought to include.
They have numbers and attacks capable of hurting her, but she's not going to be one-shotted and she is going to be pressing the attack on them, and plenty of her attacks will one-shot them.
She's had to dodge arrows for fear of being impaled by them... she's been staggered by bullets.. here "thing" is to block bullets instead of tank them...
Generally only if they're enchanted, god-forged, or what have you. And bullets as mentioned do cause pain, but not real injury.
Her strength has varied some and in the past she's been more vulnerable, but remember we take characters at full strength, Diana as-of her latest height (Simone Run in short), not her weakest.
Again more apples and oranges bullshit..
How is defending against similar abilities apples and oranges and not apples and apples?
You're just calling that because you want things to go a certain way, but that doesn't change what she's done.
It all comes down to lowballing Bleach and making out WW to be > Superman... Which is a nonsense argument for a character who's had problems tackling the US military. 😐
She's not better than Superman, but she's near Superman as has been acknowledged on many occasions by people like Superman and Batman.
Wonder Woman's power has varied a bit, most of the time militaries are no problem for her. Heck, she tanked a nuked not all that long ago.
I believe you are the one lowballing and drawing on her low versions and not the one we're actually using.
Originally posted by Q99Again has effected her before are you basing this on something new that has come up? Decay was able to age her to old age instantly her lasso was able to regenerate her since Decay had no power over Gaea's enchantment.
Two, she's immortal and immune to even extremely powerful aging effects, fight's still on.
Originally posted by the ninjak
Good to see another fighting the good fight.But these guys reckon the Shinagami's powers will have zero effect on her.
She breaks all their necks before they can blink.
They can't damage her and she tanks Ceros.
It's the problem with cross genre battles. It's all speculation.
They can damage her, but she can also tank ceros (the cero don't play on any vulnerabilities and she's tanked worse). She won't break their necks before they can blink, but is stronger than them and does have a speed edge.
Their most hax powers are ones she's shown immunity to similar to in the past, so they can't get the easy win, they will have to rely on damage output.
None of that is relying on one-off high ends or anything, that's simply how powerful Wonder Woman is, more-so than any of them in raw stat terms.
Even if you think the Shinigami win, it definitely will be far from easy and it's no surprise the Op has so many Bleach characters fighting her.
kgkg
Again has effected her before are you basing this on something new that has come up? Decay was able to age her to old age instantly her lasso was able to regenerate her since Decay had no power over Gaea's enchantment.
Good question, and the answer is yes, newer stuff has come up. She fought Decay twice. The first time was before she got immortality and got badly effected. The second time she was able to attack Decay bare handed and was unaffected.
Also Nekron himself tried aging attacks to no effect.
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/01/12/1228616_594x907.jpg
Nekron's an above-Skyfather level being, keep in mind.
Originally posted by jinzinStandard Iron-Man, although I'm assuming a CISless fight.
Which Iron Man cause I would hesitate to make that argument. 😬
Not really fast enough.
Not really strong enough.
Long range blockable.
Ineffective haxx powers.
And the strength in numbers isn't quite enough to make up the difference, imo.
