Cross Genre Match #13: Wonder Woman vs Bleach

Originally posted by jinzin
Uh no... The point was to put up for display the MASS problem of lowballing characters like Bleach when you're a character like Wonderwoman.... ala DBZ:
Which is to say for instance... that Bleach characters only have low showings due to plot holes caused by geometric powerups throughout the series..

I'm not claiming Bleach should use their low showings, far from it. It's just even their high showings aren't, say "life a city," strong, and that's a merely mid-end for her. Her normal showings are on the whole quite high and above their highest ones, she is after all Herald Level who's been in comics for decades and has herald-level enemies.

Just because I think Wonder Woman is stronger does not mean I'm lowballing them, I can think she is for normal "They're very strong, but their opponent is still stronger," reasons.

He's trying to make Wonderwoman's fighting speed to look comparible to Superman's fighting speed... who he himself doesn't fight at light speed... so it's not entirely an exaggeration.

Which is, by the way, not what I said, so ok, it's an exaggeration but it's your exaggeration and isn't part of my argument.

Though WW's reflex speed is slightly higher than Superman's (here), it's not light speed.

The only possible arguments to be made for Iron Man would delve into his ridiculous versatility, which would be the same reason that dozens of Iron Men could take down a team like this.

Even then, Diana's got one of, if not the most hax set of defenses among heralds, as well as offenses. She's just friggin ridiculous. It's the reason she keeps up with Superman despite offering less sheer power output.

can someone do me favor and show WW's greatest show of damage output?

Originally posted by Existere
The only possible arguments to be made for Iron Man would delve into his ridiculous versatility, which would be the same reason that dozens of Iron Men could take down a team like this.

Even then, Diana's got one of, if not the most hax set of defenses among heralds, as well as offenses. She's just friggin ridiculous. It's the reason she keeps up with Superman despite offering less sheer power output.

For the record, WW could be 1/1,000th the speed of light, and still be considerably faster than any Bleach character.

Originally posted by marwash22
can someone do me favor and show WW's greatest show of damage output?

Originally posted by marwash22
can someone do me favor and show WW's greatest show of damage output?

Tricky, because she's not the collateral damage type.

Most of her damage feats are against high-powered foes rather than objects.

Superman, Sinestro, an Ivo-made battle android, A demon god, Ripping her lasso out of the spine of a foe stronger than she is.

Or alternatively, non-destructive strength.

Tows the moon, the Earth, giant meteor.

You get the idea.

Not really damage output, but just a fun scan: takes enemy to orbit and back in a short time (before doing the spine-ripping thing, re-entry and impact ends up not hurting them much).

^ Hasn't she one-shotted Herald levelers with her tiara throw before?

Originally posted by Omega Vision
^ Hasn't she one-shotted Herald levelers with her tiara throw before?

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=WonderWomanvsGenocide8.jpg

Plus, when she uses it again to slice the tendons in Genocide's arm-

http://s151.photobucket.com/albums/s132/Erik_Magnus_Lensherr/?action=view&current=WonderWomanvsGenocide12.jpg

Two pretty much one-shot moves in this type of battle.

On a side note, if she used anything close to the speed she used in the Genocide battle, this battle would be over in seconds.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
What I don't understand is how you think that tactic is effective at not making you look like a douchebag.

If you can provide solid evidence for the Bleach crew winning here without having to resort to selling Wonder Woman short then you might have a decent argument.

only thing is, jinzin is actually putting up a decent argument while every wonder woman supports are going

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman is immortal"

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman is super duper faster"

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman has da lasssoooo"

and so on and so forth.

all arguments that x attack by bleach crew are countered by "nuh uh! wont work"

Originally posted by Q99
Most of the time bullets hurt her in the same sense that snapped rubber bands hurt you. That is, they sting but cause no damage, there are scans of her being sprayed with automatic gun fire to no injury.

whats that?

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
whats that?

The new depowered JMS WW that the Simone WW we're using could beat with one arm tied behind her back while blinded and unarmed and not using her flight.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
only thing is, jinzin is actually putting up a decent argument while every wonder woman supports are going

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman is immortal"

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman is super duper faster"

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman has da lasssoooo"

and so on and so forth.

all arguments that x attack by bleach crew are countered by "nuh uh! wont work"

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
whats that?

There's a difference between dismissing an argument with "nuh uhs" and actually providing feats that refute arguments. So far the feats provided by the Wonder Woman side have far outweighed those provided by the Bleach side.

All that Jinzin did was to belabor old arguments and renew trite lowballing tactics that have been used unsuccessfully in the past to downplay Wonder Woman.

Originally posted by xmarksthespot
The issue is essentially you have a dozen or so mid-to-high meta characters against a mid-to-high herald. And their Haxx powers are ill-suited to deal with her.

It's like a dozen Iron-Men suits vs Wonder Woman. WW still wins.

High herald?😬

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
only thing is, jinzin is actually putting up a decent argument while every wonder woman supports are going

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman is immortal"

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman is super duper faster"

"nuh uh! wont work coz wonder woman has da lasssoooo"

and so on and so forth.

all arguments that x attack by bleach crew are countered by "nuh uh! wont work"

But she is immortal, super-fast, and has a lasso that breaks illusions.

Phrasing it in a childish way doesn't make it not true.

"Punisher can totally kill Superman, he'd just shoot him with a gun and he'd be dead."

"nuh uh! wont work coz superman is invulnable."

But Superman is invulnerable and shooting wouldn't work, even though I wrote it out that way.

Same thing. The Bleach stuff brought up won't be easy wins because she has specific powers that really will counter them.

Amnesia

High herald?

Yes, the last thread we did on the subject concluded she was probably high-herald. WW has the track record to support it, there's multiple high-heralds who she'd do at least evenly with, and WW even has multiple arch enemies who are above herald in power.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
So a "decent argument" is lowballing and strawmanning now?

There's a difference between dismissing an argument with "nuh uhs" and actually providing feats that refute arguments. So far the feats provided by the Wonder Woman side have far outweighed those provided by the Bleach side.

All that Jinzin did was to belabor old arguments and renew trite lowballing tactics that have been used unsuccessfully in the past to downplay Wonder Woman.

lowballing or not, my issue is that every single attack or tactic the bleach supports sprout out are shot down with, "nah! wont work" or "nah! it wont hurt her"...for example, why wont she be cut by their swords? she's resistant to blunt force damage i'll give her that, but she's still susceptible to piercing damage. and claiming that they can't cut her is pure biased.

then there's the binding spells...claims it wont work, but again, their binding spells are spiritual in nature. sure she'd bust out of it if it were like some kinda rope or physical force. but its not. so claiming it wont work is again biased.

downplaying the bleach power levels is fine, but downplaying wonder woman's is not fair? come now, double standards much?

There is an apparent double standard.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
lowballing or not, my issue is that every single attack or tactic the bleach supports sprout out are shot down with, "nah! wont work" or "nah! it wont hurt her"...

But in those cases they really won't work. Should we pretend they will?

for example, why wont she be cut by their swords? she's resistant to blunt force damage i'll give her that, but she's still susceptible to piercing damage. and claiming that they can't cut her is pure biased.

The WW supporters have said she can be cut, just that cutting does not mean a sure win and she's been cut up by people stronger than them before without going down.

The cutting is pretty much their best way to hurt her, but it's not the same thing as an auto-win, she still has bracers, speed, massive toughness, and combat ability of her own. It's up to other combat stats at that point.

then there's the binding spells...claims it wont work, but again, their binding spells are spiritual in nature. sure she'd bust out of it if it were like some kinda rope or physical force. but its not. so claiming it wont work is again biased.

No, it's not biased, in Bleach it was shown that they can be burst out of with physical force alone. If Kensei can break out of one of the higher level bindings on pure strength, why shouldn't someone who's literally orders of magnitude stronger be able to?

That's how they're shown to work in Bleach. It'd be biased to claim they do more than they do within their own series.

downplaying the bleach power levels is fine, but downplaying wonder woman's is not fair? come now, double standards much?

No, that's the thing. Bleach is not being downplayed. Wonder Woman is capable of winning because she's even stronger still.

Just because something doesn't win doesn't mean it's being downplayed.

That Bleach has these powers is not being ignored, but their abilities working at full power is not the same thing as being unbeatable, they are often beatable in the show itself and WW has defeated similar before and pretending otherwise is misrepresenting Bleach, not considering how well they'd actually do.

Originally posted by Q99
But she is immortal, super-fast, and has a lasso that breaks illusions.

Phrasing it in a childish way doesn't make it not true.

"Punisher can totally kill Superman, he'd just shoot him with a gun and he'd be dead."

"nuh uh! wont work coz superman is invulnable."

But Superman is invulnerable and shooting wouldn't work, even though I wrote it out that way.

Same thing. The Bleach stuff brought up won't be easy wins because she has specific powers that really will counter them.

Yes, the last thread we did on the subject concluded she was probably high-herald. WW has the track record to support it, there's multiple high-heralds who she'd do at least evenly with, and WW even has multiple arch enemies who are above herald in power.

but superman isnt' wonder woman, shooting superman wiht a gun to the head would do nothing. but shooting wonder woman with a gun to the head would splat her brains.

and how can the lasso protect against aizen's illusion when we have no freaking idea how it actually works? actually, anyone out there who knows how his zanpakutou works?

on a side note, aren't they death gods and only those with high reiatsu can see them? does wonder woman have a high reiatsu? he's physically strong but in terms of reiatsu....thinking about it, if she can't see or feel them, they'd kill her before she knows whats going on.

Originally posted by gogogadgetgo
but superman isnt' wonder woman, shooting superman wiht a gun to the head would do nothing. but shooting wonder woman with a gun to the head would splat her brains.