Cross Genre Match #13: Wonder Woman vs Bleach

Started by Q9937 pages

Originally posted by jinzin
[B]
Arrancars don't age... It worked on one of them. Your defense is shot.
[b]

There's still the matter of her being immune to two similar abilities before, Decay's and Nekron's.


Eventually? She doesn't have a lot of time to operate under duress in this situation... IF she falls prey to Aizens hypnosis at all she's done for... You're only defense is that she won't because .... well just because she won't... in spite of it happening before. 😬

Pretty instantly once she touches it.

It's not like a few cuts before she realizes what's up will drop her.


Are you talking about Shinji? Because, that WAS against a younger more inexperienced Aizen who was underestimating his superior.

No, Unohana noticed something was odd.


For one she had to correct her timing and adapt to Flash... something Carver already called you out on.

Yea, and then once she did she didn't have to adapt again even against Zoom.

She was adjusting to being blind in the first place, keep in mind. Nowadays she has that experience.


What? That she EVENTUALLY adapted to Flash under said conditions?
Yeah after it was stated that he started out picking her apart.. She doesn't have the benefit of having a team-mate who is looking out for her best interest. Tosen will go for something lethal in the first blow.

Fortunately, she had that benefit in the past and didn't need it any more in future blind fights.

And a first blow is highly unlikely to be lethal. Consider how many cuts it took against Zaraki, that is to say, more than he could deliver.

She's unlikely to stay still confused like Kenny did either, since Diana is after all used to the situation. WW spent weeks blind and learning all the tricks to fight at her full even without sight even against foes who she couldn't hear.


Whatever you say pot... whatever you say.

But my words are backed with evidence and examples 🙂 You're merely being incredulous on your own opinion.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
You really feel those are Herald feats?

.....Yes.

I have a hard time seeing any meta pull that shit off unless it was an extreme outlier.

Originally posted by jinzin
😂

I dunno. I like it, but I definitely understand the sentiment. I DID get worse as it progressed.

I stopped reading it when Gin said "Remember my Bankia that was explained just a few chapters ago? That was a lie! HAHA It's really a poiiiiiiiiison blade!" It became pretty clear that from week to week the writer has now f@cking clue what he is doing and is moving forward with no plan.

Consider this though. Gin said his sword could move at 500 times the speed of sound, which he was lying about by his own admission... and still whatever speed it was moving at (significantly slower than his claim according to him) was still WAY faster than anyone in Bleach. It is a safe bet that Wonder Woman is exponentially faster than everyone in the manga.

I really don't see how any of that constitutes herald level. None of it was superior to, say, Iron Man's power output.

As for combat speed, Wonder Woman's fight against Genocide has her blitzing all over the place, using skills, weapons and strength, demonstrates high-end durability, and constantly shows off blows that would end any Bleach character, against a more powerful foe, without the use of her lasso.

It's also very recent.

Originally posted by Q99
[b]

There's still the matter of her being immune to two similar abilities before, Decay's and Nekron's.

Decay HAS worked against her before. 😕

Oh of course unless you're referring to a Decay who was in a cloned body with failing powers.
The same decay who failed multiple times to dust things like the floors she walked on or clothes she touched etc.... Not even remotely comparible to Barragan.

Nekron? Who barely managed to make people geriatrics with direct hits of his power? Again... how that's comparible to someone who dusted a building, a thousand year spell and an ageless being in an instant..... I don't know. 😐

So once again... "nu-uh" is your argument here.

Originally posted by Q99
[b]Pretty instantly once she touches it.

It's not like a few cuts before she realizes what's up will drop her.

So once again... "Nu-uh" is all you've got for me. She will not know what's going on, she won't have time to process it, and yes if Tosen bashes her with Benihiko, she'll be incredibly wounded.

Originally posted by Q99
[b]No, Unohana noticed something was odd.

One of the oldest and strongest captains intamately familiar with anatomy examining a corpse doll over an etended perioed and only able to guesstimate something was odd in an already suspicious situation, while Aizen was off doing other things with his attention fixed elswhere......... great. 😐

Originally posted by Q99
[b]Yea, and then once she did she didn't have to adapt again even against Zoom.

She was adjusting to being blind in the first place, keep in mind. Nowadays she has that experience.

Like Carver said her ability to "combat" either one of them comes from her ability to "time" them ... Or just use PIS against Zoom... 😬

Originally posted by Q99
[b]Fortunately, she had that benefit in the past and didn't need it any more in future blind fights.

And a first blow is highly unlikely to be lethal. Consider how many cuts it took against Zaraki, that is to say, more than he could deliver.

She's unlikely to stay still confused like Kenny did either, since Diana is after all used to the situation. WW spent weeks blind and learning all the tricks to fight at her full even without sight even against foes who she couldn't hear.

😂
😆
hysterical
Tell me you DID NOT just compare her peircing damage soak ability to Kenny.... SERIOUSLY!

Like I said my first post... WAAAOOOWWW....

The only reason Kenny was "confused" was because he didn't know what was going on, he'd never seen the Bankai release before and it's not common knowledge.. it's the EXACT same scenario that WW would be in.... EXCEPT.... y'know for the fact that Kenny could tank TONS of damage more than she can (speaking penetratively) and that Tosen likely wouldn't toy with her in his first strike.

Originally posted by Q99
[b]But my words are backed with evidence and examples 🙂 You're merely being incredulous on your own opinion.
Evidence... hmmm no.... Apples which you have forced yourself to believe are oranges instead.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
I stopped reading it when Gin said "Remember my Bankia that was explained just a few chapters ago? That was a lie! HAHA It's really a poiiiiiiiiison blade!" It became pretty clear that from week to week the writer has now f@cking clue what he is doing and is moving forward with no plan.

Consider this though. Gin said his sword could move at 500 times the speed of sound, which he was lying about by his own admission... and still whatever speed it was moving at (significantly slower than his claim according to him) was still WAY faster than anyone in Bleach. It is a safe bet that Wonder Woman is exponentially faster than everyone in the manga.

In flight sure... in fight? eeeeehhhh I don't think so.

And yeah, it's been pretty evident that Kubo doesn't even know what the Captains are supposed to be able to do... Shunsui's bankai? FEGETABOUTIT!

Originally posted by jinzin
In flight sure... in fight? eeeeehhhh I don't think so.
How fast do you think Bleach characters are? Out of curiosity?

Originally posted by jinzin
In flight sure... in fight? eeeeehhhh I don't think so.

And yeah, it's been pretty evident that Kubo doesn't even know what the Captains are supposed to be able to do... Shunsui's bankai? FEGETABOUTIT!

She can fly faster than light speed. 500x sound is apparently >>>>> everyone in Bleach currently. Even if her combat speed was a couple hundred thousand times slower than her flight speed... she would still be way way WAY faster than everyone in Bleach. /shrug

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
.....Yes.

I have a hard time seeing any meta pull that shit off unless it was an extreme outlier.


Destroying a mountain is hardly beyond the ability of High, Mid, or even Low Metas. See Cyclops and Black Canary for examples of Low Metas who are mountain busters.

So wait, how do we know that he was lying about his sword being 500 X the speed of sound?

Originally posted by Q99
It's truth in rope form basically. If you put it around someone, enchantments and illusions on them will break.

Instead of breaking mere illusions, how about It's used to restore Donna Troy after she was erased from the universe, or breaking through an enchantment strong enough to control Superman's mind and make him see nothing but rage, or reversing mental change to dozens of people at once.

A touch makes a de-evolved Batman reconize her http://img57.imageshack.us/f/435ok.jpg/

The respect thread has an annoying lack of scans of her dealing with actual illusions instead of mind control, but in Rucka's run there was one story where Dr. Psycho kept running around making people see whatever (in a manner very similar to Aizen), like think Diana's the Joker or someone's on fire or what have you, she'd put the lasso on them, and bam, done, they'd see normal again. And he even comments on her immunity (and yes, she does use the lasso to free them next page, but I couldn't find a scan of that).

Very good. However, she seems to have to "activate" it by touching it or making others touch it... let's assume that's all there is to the mechanics of it. How does that help her at all when she won't even know she's under the illusion? Aizen's power is perfect, she wouldn't know she was under the illusion and therefore wouldn't even think to use the lasso.

Also, Aizen's Shikai isn't actually a mindrape... it's just some bullshit that happens when you look at his sword, it's an effect, he's not actually controlling her mind with TP. It's a matter of fact that the only way to break the illusion is to touch Aizen's sword before he releases it. Even if she notices something is wrong, that does not break the illusion and every time after the initial release, she'll fall under a new strand of hypnosis. So, Aizen releases... are you claiming that her lasso will supersede his sword's ability? if that's what you're saying, basically you're admitting that you have a bias toward comics and the laws/rules/facts of manga/anime are all inferior to those in comics

Originally posted by Q99
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/12/27/1228353_968x1446.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/view/1228363_gl7375cy/

She tanks a blast that Kyle 'maybe could've' contained with his ring and they were worried about taken out a chunk of the city.

That didn't seem to be a bomb in the traditional sense; why wasn't there any damage done to the surounding area, or a mushroom cloud or something like that? What exactly is "warp energy"?... doesn't seem like something that would blow up a mountain or the like.

EDIT: Ok, i read it again... so, what happened is, the bomb basically got trapped and it imploded? and that's the reason there was no collateral damage?

Sure, but that's not her tanking a nuke, she simply snuffed it out and didn't let the blast reach full potential. What she did is impressive, but it's harldy "tanking a nuke".

Originally posted by Q99
There's also a recent example in the Rise of Olympians story where she sees a nuke, flies up to it, and punches it
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27444/1090824-wonder_woman__31___page_21_super.jpg
http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/27444/1090827-wonder_woman__31___page_22_super.jpg
How is that an example of her tanking a nuke? She punched it and got the hell out of there before getting caught in the blast... she didn't get hit with a nuke and keep her position without harm, aka tank it.

Originally posted by Q99
Vs Achilles
http://img4.imageshack.us/f/ww2gq.jpg/
http://img3.imageshack.us/f/ww4x.jpg/

Vs Mera w/trident of Poseidon
http://comicsmedia.ign.com/comics/image/article/105/1058468/blackest-night-wonder-woman-20100105083532266.jpg

Vs the Goddess Medusa
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/07/14/1229828_560x875.jpg
http://www.picamatic.com/show/2008/10/23/07/15/1229832_560x868.jpg

Notable because she's cut up and tossed around but still wins. All of those except for Mera are class 100.

Also her arch enemy is Cheetah (seen there one-shotting Firestorm). Again a surprising lack of scans, but needless to say she's dealt with getting cut up a lot.

that doesn't really prove anything, it's almost damaging to your argument because in the cases where she actually took blows from the swings, she got cut. Now, unless you're telling me that beings who can lay waste to a mountain with a single sword swing (and not actually physically touch the mountain) are not strong enough to cut WW, you have proven nothing with those scans.

Originally posted by Q99
It doesn't. With gasses her options are more holding her breath, flying away, making a tornado by running around fast to clear it (yea, she's done that), dive underground and take the enemy out without having to deal with it, and so on.

If she gets poisoned she relies on her intensely strong constitution and healing factor to handle it and it tends to only temporarily have effect, as Dr. Poison (one of her old enemies) can tell you, but she's also good at avoiding it.

She's going to hold her breathe while simultenously fighting off the attack from other people? Okay sure... please show scans of her fighting while not breathing.

Originally posted by Q99
Martian Manhunter and Flash

While blind.

And they comment also moving too fast for her to use hearing to fight Flash.

Not really. What they said, is that she was relying to much on her sense of hearing and Flash was too fast for her to fight effectively using that tactic. She could still hear him, which is why she was "holding her own". Again, show me scans of her beating someone while blind, death and unable to smell.... seriously, how do you suppose she does this?

Originally posted by Q99
The Zeus's Aegis or Aphrodite's Lasso of Trut subject to aging? Well, come to think of it, we *know* the Lasso's around in 800,000+ years, as well as what are upgraded forms of the bracers.

The tiara, may be effected. It's enchantment but it's not a Skyfather-level artifact like the others.

So, your answer is "nuh-uh"? I asked for proof, not supposition.

Originally posted by Q99
How about heat vision? Not really a 'projectile,' but sure is fast and destructive.

Hundreds of stingers

excellent. Moar scans of her deflecting lasers and shrapnel... not what i asked for. The material Stark shoots will explode on impact, using her bracers will lead to her being bombarded with hundreds of explosions... which brings us back to showing her tanking highly destructive bombs.

Originally posted by Q99
Blocking heat vision with her bare hands while being right next to the sun.
Heat vision is hardly a valid example and correct me if I'm wrong, but she was pretty darn worried about being pushed into the sun and it looked as if her face was burning. Yama's flames are hot enough to insta-disintegrate whatever they touch and the only people shown to resit the heat are two captains with some of the highest reiatsu in entire series. On top of that, they even avoided the flames and only resisted the residual heat from his flames... residual heat in which is hot enough to ignite air.

Originally posted by Q99
Officially faster than Superman.
It's very amusing that you would use that particular scan as evidence considering how many times myself and others have asked to see a high level of combat speed. By posting that scan in which Batman, WW and Superman all acknowledge the importance of combat speed, you have brought us back to...

Show me an instance of her fighting fast, using lateral quickness, avoiding high speed assaults from multiple directions, countering quickly, reacting to attacks that she cannot merely sense or predict. As Batman said and Superman concurred... Usain Bolt may be fast, but he'd get his ass kicked in a fight because he has no COMBAT SPEED!!!!

Originally posted by Q99
No, though fortunately none of the Bleach characters have the ability to stop time so who cares?
Considering Tessai can indeed stop time, you and all the other WW supporters should care.

Originally posted by Q99
Well, I think I've provided way more scans and examples than your post honestly requires! 🙂
no, you really haven't.

Originally posted by srankmissingnin
She can fly faster than light speed. 500x sound is apparently >>>>> everyone in Bleach currently. Even if her combat speed was a couple hundred thousand times slower than her flight speed... she would still be way way WAY faster than everyone in Bleach. /shrug
that's very true. Now kindly post a scan of her using said combat speed in which is vastly superior to everyone in Bleach.

This is closed! Who won?

Bleach won, of course. peaches

Originally posted by RE: Blaxican
So wait, how do we know that he was lying about his sword being 500 X the speed of sound?

He said so.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
Destroying a mountain is hardly beyond the ability of High, Mid, or even Low Metas. See Cyclops and Black Canary for examples of Low Metas who are mountain busters.

I never said it was beyond their ability but from what I've seen it's highly unlikely for one of them to do so. And with so little effort? That's herald level.

When has Cyclops destroyed a mountain? When has Black Canary?

it would be so sweet if final Tenshou literally destroys the moon. evilgrin

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I never said it was beyond their ability but from what I've seen it's highly unlikely for one of them to do so. And with so little effort? That's herald level.

When has Cyclops destroyed a mountain? When has Black Canary?

IIRC, Cyclops has punched a hole straight through one.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I never said it was beyond their ability but from what I've seen it's highly unlikely for one of them to do so. And with so little effort? That's herald level.

When has Cyclops destroyed a mountain? When has Black Canary?


Black Canary busting a mountain with her scream:
http://img66.imageshack.us/f/batgirl06721.jpg/

Very good. However, she seems to have to "activate" it by touching it or making others touch it... let's assume that's all there is to the mechanics of it. How does that help her at all when she won't even know she's under the illusion? Aizen's power is perfect, she wouldn't know she was under the illusion and therefore wouldn't even think to use the lasso.

Because the odds of her touching the lasso in combat are so very low aren't they? If she's using the lasso it won't work to begin with.

Also consider how he uses it in combat in general: He shows the scene change, that he's actually somewhere else, or so on. That's a dead giveaway.

How is that an example of her tanking a nuke? She punched it and got the hell out of there before getting caught in the blast... she didn't get hit with a nuke and keep her position without harm, aka tank it.

It blew up right in front of her and it was in full explosion while she was still visibly in the 'punching it' pose.

You can't just make up explanations that contradict the scans, you know.


Decay HAS worked against her before.

...back when she was mortal, before she got an upgrade.


So once again... "nu-uh" is your argument here.

No, you may think it insufficient evidence, but there's still both (1) examples provided, and (2) a reason why

To which you are responding 'nuh-uh'.


So once again... "Nu-uh" is all you've got for me. She will not know what's going on, she won't have time to process it, and yes if Tosen bashes her with Benihiko, she'll be incredibly wounded.

Except that's not what's happened when it's in use even in Bleach. After it's used there's time between that and an attack, she's still likely going to be attacking some target (which might not be there due to the hypnosis), and she won't just be standing there.

If Tosen slashes her, she'll be hurt, but he has not demonstrated the strength to one-shot her or close to it with his blade.

Not really. What they said, is that she was relying to much on her sense of hearing and Flash was too fast for her to fight effectively using that tactic. She could still hear him, which is why she was "holding her own". Again, show me scans of her beating someone while blind, death and unable to smell.... seriously, how do you suppose she does this?

Except the scan specifically said she couldn't hear Flash coming because he was too fast, then you have her doing the same against Zoom who makes him look slow.

So you've seen scans of her fighting foes without sight or hearing. And not just holding her own, but winning. Note Flash *and* MM.

Also, is smelling really important? I'll grant she had smell during those fights, I just don't see how it matters.

excellent. Moar scans of her deflecting lasers and shrapnel... not what i asked for. The material Stark shoots will explode on impact, using her bracers will lead to her being bombarded with hundreds of explosions... which brings us back to showing her tanking highly destructive bombs.

The stingers are projectiles, exactly what you asked for.

Bombs was covered earlier, and bracers can handle bomb blasts.

Like Carver said her ability to "combat" either one of them comes from her ability to "time" them ... Or just use PIS against Zoom...

They specifically said how she was doing it and that was not it, she was reading air currents and such via touch in addition to timing them. And guess what? She can do the same against the Bleachers too.

Diana did that against multiple foes, so no PIS, that really is her capability.

She's going to hold her breathe while simultenously fighting off the attack from other people? Okay sure... please show scans of her fighting while not breathing.

http://i634.photobucket.com/albums/uu62/Butterscotchlion/gm%20ww/jla_10.jpg


Tell me you DID NOT just compare her peircing damage soak ability to Kenny.... SERIOUSLY!

Like I said my first post... WAAAOOOWWW....

The only reason Kenny was "confused" was because he didn't know what was going on, he'd never seen the Bankai release before and it's not common knowledge.. it's the EXACT same scenario that WW would be in.... EXCEPT.... y'know for the fact that Kenny could tank TONS of damage more than she can (speaking penetratively) and that Tosen likely wouldn't toy with her in his first strike.

Really now? Cheetah rips open Firestorm with one shot.

Cheetah does the same thing to Wondy with Barely any effect

See, here's the thing: Diana is not easy to one-shot by piercing and slashing. She is easier to cut and pierce and slice, but as was mentioned REPEATEDLY, she's still super-tough.

Her weakness here is being vastly played up. Yes, she does have Kenny level blade resistance: That is, you can cut the heck out of her and she won't go down because she's still super-tough, will fight through the damage, and has ultra dense bones and all.

I posted Medusa getting blade hits on her too.

Diana's not "oh because they have a sword, blade, or cutting whatever I'll go down fast," and the scans clearly show that.

Your argument relies on her going fast to blade hits from superstrong foes/not being able to take them, which is not the case.

Considering Tessai can indeed stop time, you and all the other WW supporters should care.

I admit I forgot that one. Still, it has several seconds of visibly glowy charge time in it's area effect.

*If* she can be hit by it, it's a win, but that's quite tricky.


no, you really haven't.

Please. I provided a dozen+ examples.

You want to counter-argue, provide scans, don't just say, "No, those scans don't count, you're just saying nuh-uh." Even if you disagree, that is flat-out not true.

I'm providing evidence, you're denying evidence. You aren't providing counter-evidence, you're merely denying it and providing nothing to back up your assertions, and in several cases your denials are directly contradicted by the scans.

Growing increasingly nitpicky and 'creatively reinterpreting' scans is not the same as providing solid evidence-backed counter-arguments.