Superman vs Earth

Started by 75310 pages
753 Senior Member

Originally posted by Juntai
Of course, however Marvel moved in the same direction. Which is why it's laughable when 60's 70's and even some 80's feats are used to support the strength of say . . Thor, or Hulk, when it's been quite clear they aren't written like that -currently-. And it's not even a question of these events having actually transpired once upon a time, because of course, they did, however they are no more canon to the characters -- outside of reference alone -- than the pre-Crisis stories of DC's, which are now fully canon as well. 😉

Current Superman has plenty of his own ridiculous feats anyways. Imo, outside of a few brief moments[typically specifically powered up], Superman has been more impressive over the last decade plus than either of them featwise, and quite substantially.

Hulk is actually stronger than ever and most of Thor's and Doc Strange's relative depowerements, for instance, have been covered in storylines as the products of actual events, not just scaling down. That's why we use classic Thor, classic Strange or classic Juggernaut to refer to the older versions and this is made clear all the time. Besides, for as many characters who were weakened, others became much more powerfull, the MU as a whole wasn't scaled down like DCU was, shit happened to individual characters, that's all. In fact, the MU as a whole has seen a steady increase in average power level among its non-abstract folk.

Using PC feats to argue for current SM is absurd, let alone using a PC statement that was hyperbole back then and treating it as statement of fact for current SM because the story was referenced post-crisis.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by 753 Hulk is actually stronger than ever
Try proving it with feats. Any Hulk feats of the last decade, verses those of years past.

and most of Thor's and Doc Strange's relative depowerements, for instance, have been covered in storylines as the products of actual events, not just scaling down. That's why we use classic Thor, classic Strange or classic Juggernaut to refer to the older versions and this is made clear all the time. Besides, for as many characters who were weakened, others became much more powerfull, the MU as a whole wasn't scaled down like DCU was, shit happened to individual characters, that's all. In fact, the MU as a whole has seen a steady increase in average power level among its non-abstract folk.
It wasn't scaled down as one event, but it was certainly scaled back from the loony 60s and 70s nonsense. Both companies are making their characters steadily more powerful again.

Juntai Divine Vengeance


Using PC feats to argue for current SM is absurd, let alone using a PC statement that was hyperbole back then and treating it as statement of fact for current SM because the story was referenced post-crisis.

I wasn't attempting to connect the two at any point, I joined for particular parts of the conversation here, so don't project another debate entirely onto me just because I've joined a discussion.

Oh, and PC Superman certainly would have had the strength to punch through a diamond planet. That's not hyperbole, by definition.

Omega Vision Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

^ I really don't think there is such thing as hyperbole for PC Superman. 😂

-Pr- Hey Yo!

PC Superman punches hyperbole. In the face.

753 Senior Member

Originally posted by Juntai
[B]Try proving it with feats. Any Hulk feats of the last decade, verses those of years past.
WWH, Worldbreaker, current green scar like persona. hulk was destroying the planet by walking on it and another step would do it in. current hulk defeated the rulk with a thunderclap after tanking a mushroom cloud blow and resisting his energy drain. WWH walked through everyone on earth, sure there was lots of PIS in it, but the overall powerlevel has become pretty much the highest since his creation.

He had threatened to shatter a tectonic plate with the stress caused by his leg muscles contracting in the past, but things reached an even bigger sclae with the world breaking hulk.

Kasper Gutman Senior Member

Marvel has a fairly clean retcon history. Sure there's minor things but few really huge retcons like the beyonder mess. That's just my opinion of course. DC on the other hand seems to revel in retcons. You'll get a headache just trying to figure out Power Girl alone.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by 753
WWH, Worldbreaker, current green scar like persona. hulk was destroying the planet by walking on it and another step would do it in. current hulk defeated the rulk with a thunderclap after tanking a mushroom cloud blow and resisting his energy drain. WWH walked through everyone on earth, sure there was lots of PIS in it, but the overall powerlevel has become pretty much the highest since his creation.

He had threatened to shatter a tectonic plate with the stress caused by his leg muscles contracting in the past, but things reached an even bigger sclae with the world breaking hulk.

That's a specifically powered-up storyline, but even then...[noting I don't actually read Hulk, or care to find scans, but I've seen most of these discussed anyways just over my years being here. Someone will have them if they care to show you. But I jacked these from another poster on another forum.]

* Destroying a pocket universe, by clapping his hands to create a shock wave that reflected the Dark-Crawler’s blasts.

* Sending concussive shockwaves, causing cataclysmic upheavals throughout a great number of multiversal planets, by the impact of his punches when within the 'Crossroads' nexus.

* Holding a black hole’s core with his arms and giving time to Namor, Doctor Strange and Silver Surfer to find a way out.

* Occasionally, the Hulk has performed feats that violate the laws of physics, even by comic book standards, such as keeping apart matter and anti-matter spheres, or punching his way through a time-storm.

* Pushing a 10x stronger than normal [Warrior Madness] Thor to the ground with a single arm.

And this isn't all of the zany stuff that use to happen, either.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by Kasper Gutman
Marvel has a fairly clean retcon history. Sure there's minor things but few really huge retcons like the beyonder mess. That's just my opinion of course. DC on the other hand seems to revel in retcons. You'll get a headache just trying to figure out Power Girl alone.
She's Kara of Earth 2 left over from the Crisis on Infinite Earth's was born. The universe, not having any 'other Earth' characters, as this was a newborn reality, was trying to adapt and give her a story, hence her multiple origins.

Oh, and Marvel retcons stuff all the time.
Check out Tony Stark's past being rewritten over and over.
Check out Spiderman's current debacle.
They even retconned the shit out of Grant Morrison's run on X-men when he bailed back to DC comics.
There's example after example of this.

Neither company is really more-so at blame for this that the other.

Starscream M Senior Member

Originally posted by Juntai

Oh, and PC Superman certainly would have had the strength to punch through a diamond planet.

um...based on?

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by Starscream M
um...based on?
Uhh, have you looked at the Pre-Crisis Superman thread? And that's only a portion of the ridiculous shit.

The shit he does makes punching through a planet of diamond look like an easy task.

The force of a hundred galaxies knocked him a few feet. lol.

The guy could ****ing grab the planet and throw it across the universe. Or use his breath to blow away stars.

Used to play catch with moons and had to be careful not to throw too hard because it would explode when hit their hands.

He could look at a diamond planet and turn it into coal!

The Pre-Crisis Kryptonians were so ridiculous the universe might as well have been paper and cardboard to them.

Also, diamond becomes brittle once fractured. Once his initial force cracks through it, chances are the whole thing comes apart.

Starscream M Senior Member

oh sorry..didn't realize you were talking about pc superman

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Juntai
Of course, however Marvel moved in the same direction. Which is why it's laughable when 60's 70's and even some 80's feats are used to support the strength of say . . Thor, or Hulk, when it's been quite clear they aren't written like that -currently-. And it's not even a question of these events having actually transpired once upon a time, because of course, they did, however they are no more canon to the characters -- outside of reference alone -- than the pre-Crisis stories of DC's, which are now fully canon as well. 😉

Current Superman has plenty of his own ridiculous feats anyways. Imo, outside of a few brief moments[typically specifically powered up], Superman has been more impressive over the last decade plus than either of them featwise, and quite substantially.

lolwut? Thor and Hulk from the 60's were far less powerful than they have been portrayed recently. Nobody thought during the 60's, 70's and 80's, that Thor would be capable of killing Mangog or one-shotting Durok (W/O MJOLNIR). Nobody thought during the 60's, 70's and 80's, Hulk would be healing from a near-skeletal state in panels or nearly breaking the continental coastline with footsteps. Let's talk about Silver Surfer... you think Surfer in the 60's, 70's and 80's was capable of nonchalantly creating a black hole?

Don't deflect. PC Superboy sneezed and galaxies were destroyed. Post-Crisis Superman's noticeable increases in power since the Byrne-era don't even come close to those levels. And random references and flashbacks don't create justification to ignore the simple and plain fact: current Superman is nowhere near as powerful as PC Superman at his height.

Originally posted by -Pr-
i don't know who was arguing that...
Nobody in this thread directly. And that's the way it should be. But look to posters' comments and you can see where they're trying to do: return to the old arguments made in every "Mongul Sr. vs. _____" thread, i.e., "[i]lolz, Mongul Sr. was trashing PC Superman!!! Curp-stompage!!!"

biensalsa DJ FrostByte

I really love people who do not even question a Marvel retcon but jump over the DC retcons like there is no tomorrow.

There is a really interesting point that OneDumbG0 makes

"fact: current Superman is nowhere near as powerful as PC Superman at his height. "

Agree Current Superman is not near as powerful as PC Superman AT HIS HEIGHT.

Splitting a diamond planet is NOT a HIGH END FEAT FOR PC SUPERMAN.

Therefore is conceibable that Current Superman could perform a PC Superman low end feat.

So I really don's see why this guys are arguing about.

IF HE WANT'S HE CAN, END OF THE STORY

753 Senior Member

Originally posted by biensalsa
I really love people who do not even question a Marvel retcon but jump over the DC retcons like there is no tomorrow.

There is a really interesting point that OneDumbG0 makes

"fact: current Superman is nowhere near as powerful as PC Superman at his height. "

Agree Current Superman is not near as powerful as PC Superman AT HIS HEIGHT.

Splitting a diamond planet is NOT a HIGH END FEAT FOR PC SUPERMAN.

Therefore is conceibable that Current Superman could perform a PC Superman low end feat.

So I really don's see why this guys are arguing about.

IF HE WANT'S HE CAN, END OF THE STORY

Show me a single strengh feat from curent superman that allows one to conclude he could indeed shatter a diamond planet in half as this is the only proof that matters and not whether or not pre-crisis could do it.

-Pr- Hey Yo!
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Nobody in this thread directly. And that's the way it should be. But look to posters' comments and you can see where they're trying to do: return to the old arguments made in every "Mongul Sr. vs. _____" thread, i.e., "[i]lolz, Mongul Sr. was trashing PC Superman!!! Curp-stompage!!!"

TBH, for me it's no different than deathstroke giving superman trouble one week, and him taking on multiple probes the next.

high and low showings etc.

Plus, as was said earlier, Superman and Mongul weren't exactly smashing planets during the fight. Though like all comic fights, inconsistency plays a part.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

^ Deathstroke PIS =/= current Superman is reaching PC levels. Vast difference.

Originally posted by biensalsa
Agree Current Superman is not near as powerful as PC Superman AT HIS HEIGHT.

Splitting a diamond planet is NOT a HIGH END FEAT FOR PC SUPERMAN.

Therefore is conceibable that Current Superman could perform a PC Superman low end feat.

I would accuse you of making unjustifiable leaps of logic, but that would be an insult to unjustifiable leaps of logic.
Originally posted by biensalsa
IF HE WANT'S HE CAN, END OF THE STORY
Profile-worthy right thar.

biensalsa DJ FrostByte
Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Deathstroke PIS =/= current Superman is reaching PC levels. Vast difference. I would accuse you of making unjustifiable leaps of logic, but that would be an insult to unjustifiable leaps of logic. Profile-worthy right thar.

WOW!!! Somebody is in pain, for them to actually reply to MY ONLY SINGLE POST IN THE WHOLE WEEK.

I WONDER WHO THOSE MIGHT BE? 😆

psycho gundam The Nightmare of Solomon

Originally posted by biensalsa
WOW!!! Somebody is in pain, for them to actually reply to MY ONLY SINGLE POST IN THE WHOLE WEEK.

I WONDER WHO THOSE MIGHT BE? 😆

oh and that post was a giant steaming brick of a turd, as opposed to the small rabbit pellets your fingers usually drop here more frequently.

the smell of lies is very painful 😛

cdtm Restricted
Originally posted by 753
Even then, the description alone wouldn't prove anything, but actually we've seen what the SS can survive on his own, including ions.

In other words, statements without feats are usually written off as hyperbole.

Although, what happens if, say, the yellow power battery is claimed as being capable of destroying the Milky Way? Obviously, it won't actually destroy the Milky Way. Should we assume it would have, or write such comments off as hyperbole?

Just by way of example. I can probably think of other examples of characters making a claim as fact, that's never going to realistically happen.. (Another example is Supermans punches on the moon threatening to knock it out of it's orbit. As it didn't, does this mean we write it off as a hyperbolic statement?)