Silver Surfer vs Flash

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh he definately did it... but he did it at sub light speed 😉 .

By the same token if the narration says that a character like the Vision amps his density to the point that he weighs 90 tons in order to become immovable in a fight, we don't go grab calculators when he's then unmoved by a punch from someone like Thor to figure out how much he would have to weigh in order for him to tank the punch and say that our result supercede's the author's intent.

If character A is protrayed in a feat to lift a *massive* boulder that is threatening to flatten a city, and then the writer portrays the character to say "I'm lifting this 100lb rock" when the rock was calculated to be heavy enough to flatten houses. What would you say was the writers intent? Was it an error in math, or did they simply mean to draw a smaller rock?

Obviously the author meant for Flash to do that feat, and specifically said the numbers. So he moved at 2.5 quintillion miles per second, whether you want to call it light speed is up to you and anyone else. He had to. Mainly because if he was only moving light speed:

1. He would have rescued one person, if that, and
2. The particles from those types of bombs move at light speed or more.

So he did move 2.5 quintillion miles a second, maybe it was sub light speed to Flash because he is that good, he still did it. *shrugs*

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Like when he was at 2 places at one time?

this is what you get when you try to calculate and give real world physics to comic feats..

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it just becomes irrational.. just take the feat for what it is present it in your argument : A my guy hits this hard and runs this fast, that is it. dont try to explain how its possible..

wally knocks surfer off the board. flash wins

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Pretty much, this isn't the only insane feat he has like this isn't some "one time" thing. It's not even his craziest feat.

Pretty much.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Pretty much, this isn't the only insane feat he has like this isn't some "one time" thing. It's not even his craziest feat.

Out of curiosity which other feats he has thats are better than this one?

I remember Flash beating teleportation feat but I'm pretty sure he had major amp in that one.

Originally posted by King Castle
this is what you get when you try to calculate and give real world physics to comic feats..

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it just becomes irrational.. just take the feat for what it is present it in your argument : A my guy hits this hard and runs this fast, that is it. dont try to explain how its possible..

Originally posted by kgkg
With beyond light speed you can easily make it seem to be in more place that one.

Out of curiosity which other feats he has thats are better than this one?

I remember Flash beating teleportation feat but I'm pretty sure he had major amp in that one.

The Surfer for arguments sake moves faster than the Flash is what I'm guessing. Norrin has, on at least a couple of occasions traveled through time because he was moving so fast. Here's a question, what happens when the Surfer grabs him by the neck and takes him into space? Does he win?

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I see where you're coming from and I'm not so much just dismissing your side, as I just don't fully agree.

If character A is protrayed in a feat to lift a *massive* boulder that is threatening to flatten a city, and then the writer portrays the character to say "I'm lifting this 100lb rock" when the rock was calculated to be heavy enough to flatten houses. What would you say was the writers intent? Was it an error in math, or did they simply mean to draw a smaller rock?

Obviously the author meant for Flash to do that feat, and specifically said the numbers. So he moved at 2.5 quintillion miles per second, whether you want to call it light speed is up to you and anyone else. He had to. Mainly because if he was only moving light speed:

1. He would have rescued one person, if that, and
2. The particles from those types of bombs move at light speed or more.

So he did move 2.5 quintillion miles a second, maybe it was sub light speed to Flash because he is that good, he still did it. *shrugs*

I mean yeah he obviously wanted Flash to be able to do the feat, but he also obviously wanted Flash to be able to do it while going at sub light speed. It doesn't mean that we redefine the speed of light for the DC universe(especially since's it's been stated on panel any number of times now), it means we throw the feat out as bad writing just like we do other feats of bad writing. And let's face it, such a glaring inconsistency pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the feat falls into that category...

i will concede that overall flash is faster at responding as stimuli and dressing himself...

SS can only use FTl reflexive defense which is not enough to block or counter every punch Flash throws but, he does have durability to compensate. example when he fought the runner...the runner fights and runs ala flash even has similar blur art and multiple overlapping art.

SS kept up with him both visually and reaction wise.. now SS does need the board to move at FTL in a race but not to see or react.

another SS can step out of time which screws flash over if we take how he stacks to Zoom...

SS at his fasted traverses galaxies and if he does it without goin into hyper space once he exceeds ftl he starts to warp space.. hence why goes into hyperspace to not cause havok to the enviroment.

Originally posted by darthgoober
Yeah but your 100lb rock example goes right in hand with my example of the Vision. Do we take the author's word for the fact that he weighs 90 tons when he's unmoved by Thor's punch or do we grab a calculator and figure out how much he'd actually have to weigh to be unmoved by Thor's punch?

I mean yeah he obviously wanted Flash to be able to do the feat, but he also obviously wanted Flash to be able to do it while going at sub light speed. It doesn't mean that we redefine the speed of light for the DC universe(especially since's it's been stated on panel any number of times now), it means we throw the feat out as bad writing just like we do other feats of bad writing. And let's face it, such a glaring inconsistency pretty much proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that the feat falls into that category...

He said he did a specific feat, point by point. This isn't a slight miscalculation. If he moved at sub light speed the feat wouldn't be at all possible. He wouldn't rescue anybody. Of course here and in real life, what someone actually did means more than what they said. If I say I'm sleeping when I'm typing this to you, obviously my action carries more weight.

But like I said again. I never said it wasn't a bit of a silly feat, and the calculation likely a bit off, but the action matters more than the words. It isn't his craziest feat, and there is a difference in saying he only went light speed, than saying he did go 13 trillion times light speed and it is bad writing.

If you are saying the second now, then that is totally different altogether as you are saying by nature of the feat he moved that fast. It's just really absurd to you. I wasn't about to try to make anybody believe anything in it's essence, just explaining why his actions mean more than his words. It's all good though I think we both see where each side is coming from. Like I said I'm not saying "You're just flat wrong fool." More of "I see what you're saying, I just don't agree on that one part." 😉

I'm about to shower and hit the hay, I am going to be busy for the rest of the week with my business. So I'll probably post a bit here and there, but it won't be an ongoing argument. Good discussion though as always. 🙂

Later all. 🙂

Originally posted by darthgoober
he also obviously wanted Flash to be able to do it while going at sub light speed.

you're operating under the assumption that the writer sat down and said to himself "i think flash should do this feat at sub light speed".

face it, the guy just sucks at math or just plain guessed

http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/281/silversurfervol3007nn1.jpg

/thread

how does that compare to 13 trillion times the speed of light? 😖hifty:

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
So if a book says it's impossible, or if Wolverine says it's impossible for him to slice the Hulk, after he has done it, we should believe he cant?

I mean isn't this the reason that handbooks and "stats" aren't allowed in the first place.

Wolverine is now a peak human again who cannot truly regenerate.

If a comic show a class 70 lifting a submarine whose weight the writer is ignorant of and the narration says '"with a strengh tha can lift up to 70 tons, she hulk raises a submarine" do we assume she can now benchpress 30000 tons? Specially when she has much lower showings of strugling against much lesser weight? Like the flash has lower showings too.

Surfer.

Originally posted by 753
That's not what happned in the storyline, it didn't say it was impossible for the flash to do it under lightspeed, in fact it said the opposite. We know it was the writer messing up. That's why I'm concerned abou taking these real wolrd extrapolations at face value.

If a comic show a class 70 lifting a submarine whose weight the writer is ignorant of and the narration says '"with a strengh tha can lift up to 70 tons, she hulk raises a submarine" do we assume she can now benchpress 30000 tons? Specially when she has much lower showings of strugling against much lesser weight? Like the flash has lower showings too.

flash is faster and has to be faster by design

this power cosmic is overplayed

Originally posted by darthgoober
Oh he definately did it... but he did it at sub light speed 😉 .

By the same token if the narration says that a character like the Vision amps his density to the point that he weighs 90 tons in order to become immovable during a fight, we don't go grab calculators when he's then unmoved by a punch from someone like Thor to figure out how much he would have to weigh in order for him to tank the punch and say that our result supercede's the author's intent.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I've said it before, I'll say it again. DC light speed is > to RL light speed. 131