Originally posted by King CastleWolverine stated Spider-Man could break his neck and Spider-Man said he was 40x faster than a human, Wolverine/MA supporters don't like that though. 2.5 quintillion mps is sub light speed I suppose.
he performed the feat but it was stated to still be under light not above.hence, real science to explain the feat doesnt count as a feat in itself..
your comparing the opinion of characters and his limited knowledge aka Hyperbole for narration and factual statement of the writers who for all intends and purposes is god.
wolverine/spider can say whatever they want it doesnt mean it is true..
Norman osborn thinks that Sentry is the angel of death that doesnt make it a factual statement of the narrator its the opinion of the character.
Originally posted by Bouboumaster
http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/281/silversurfervol3007nn1.jpg/thread
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Strength is also different as it is adrenaline based and more effort based than speed feats are generally. Spider-Man has the ability to do those feats, but he's not a regular in the class 100 area. I'm sure. I count 3 people in this thread, and more on the other side, and even more in the other thread regarding this. There is no way he was going less than the speed showed or he just didn't do it, how hard is that to understand. What someone does always go over what they say, or even what the author says at times.
You misunderstand my point. My point is that 100 tons is a VEEEEEEERY low figure for the capabilities of Class 100 guys. Everyone in the class 100 group can lift 100 ton objects casually in one hand without a thought without ever getting tired.
Class 100 is more like 100,000 tons than just 100. But, the simple description of Class 100 simply says one has to be able to 'lift and press a 100 tons'. So the entire system is a misnomer, especially when in more modern times writers are more aware of actual weights of things and state them often.
Lifting 100 tons for Spiderman isn't exactly far-fetched day to day capability as he's lifted a metal apparatus that weighed 'far more than a locamotive' (which can weigh about 200 tons), thrown around medium sized tanks like toys, (which can weigh 70 tons or a lot more) among other things like bracing buildings.
Originally posted by King Castle
your comparing the opinion of characters and his limited knowledge aka Hyperbole for narration and factual statement of the writers who for all intends and purposes is god.wolverine/spider can say whatever they want it doesnt mean it is true..
Norman osborn thinks that Sentry is the angel of death that doesnt make it a factual statement of the narrator its the opinion of the character.
The mistake was that the writer goofed by saying it was just under light speed since the feat did happen and it is part of his character. He may have not thought out what he said, but he did do it. It have been different if he checked what he said and was slightly off, but he just put the feat down there so it does count.
Spider-Man doesn't know his own speed but the Flash does? And Wolverine doesn't know his anatomy? Says who?
So if Wonder Woman says a character hits as hard as Superman that is a lie too? Flash's speed that he said he went was an opinion about how fast he was going. The point is, if he were going 187k mps or less he couldn't do the feat. He wouldn't even rescue one person, that's how big a deal it is. This isn't a mild jump. It's possibly the largest one in comics.
Originally posted by CosmicCometOh I agree completely, maybe I wasn't clear.
You misunderstand my point. My point is that 100 tons is a VEEEEEEERY low figure for the capabilities of Class 100 guys. Everyone in the class 100 group can lift 100 ton objects casually in one hand without a thought without ever getting tired.Class 100 is more like 100,000 tons than just 100. But, the simple description of Class 100 simply says one has to be able to 'lift and press a 100 tons'. So the entire system is a misnomer, especially when in more modern times writers are more aware of actual weights of things and state them often.
Lifting 100 tons for Spiderman isn't exactly far-fetched day to day capability as he's lifted a metal apparatus that weighed 'far more than a locamotive' (which can weigh about 200 tons), thrown around medium sized tanks like toys, (which can weigh 70 tons or a lot more) among other things like bracing buildings.
narration stated he did it short of the speed of light.. real math doesnt add up to his feat so what. he did it under the speed of light...
its like when some one's energy blast is said to be the heat of a supernova and they are tossing it around in a city..
we say okay it has the power of a supernova but we dont start grabbing a calculator and calculating the heat or the required mass for it to happen and ponder why the city or planet isnt incinerated.
we take the feat for what it was implied and leave real science out the door...
we dont say well the heat wasnt supernova it would have to be astronomically less to not harm the environment so... i say it was only as hot as a lightning bolt or the hottest flame recorded on earth.
that is BS and we dont do that.
I'm sleeping right now, although I'm typing you this I'm sleeping. Since it is what I said I did, it must be true. 🙂
Originally posted by King Castle
narration stated he did it short of the speed of light.. real math doesnt add up to his feat so what. he did it under the speed of light...its like when some one's energy blast is said to be the heat of a supernova and they are tossing it around in a city..
we say okay it has the power of a supernova but we dont start grabbing a calculator and calculating the heat or the required mass for it to happen and ponder why the city or planet isnt incinerated.
we take the feat for what it was implied and leave real science out the door...
we dont say well the heat wasnt supernova it would have to be astronomically less to not harm the environment so... i say it was only as hot as a lightning bolt or the hottest flame recorded on earth.
that is BS and we dont do that.
Flash stated something and he did something else, something else that if he actually did what he said wouldn't be near conceivable. It's not even up for question.
People are falling into these groups.
1. He did the feat, but said something else. What he does means more than what he said. It was not intentional but it still happened.
2. He said something, so the feat falls out of place and doesn't count.
3. He did it *and* he went under the speed of light.
So now under the speed of light is 2.5 quintillion miles per second, or the feat simply didn't happen. Great. IDLIIDH, might even be trolling.
BTW your examples are poor, because he did do this feat therefore it was what happened at that time. It wasn't a theory, and I didn't use a calculator, just some common sense as I was curious.
Originally posted by Tha C-MasterThose narration boxes were the flash's thoughts? Doesnt look like it. The feat isn't crazy or even pis. It's not a feat at all, it was just a mistake. This isn't about what was done vs what was said, you're just proposing an interpretation of what was done based on real world physics and in contradiction of the storyline. The feat is unusable except to claim the flash can get a heck of a lot done before a nuclear bomb goes off.
[B]No, actually the Flash said all of that bub, but the Flash actually did the feat, and actions always speak louder than words, in real life and in comics.
And if that really was the flash anrating the events and you claim he is unreliable about how fast he said he was going, why should we accept it was acomplished in a fraction of a microsecond or whatever it says there?
Originally posted by 753Now you're starting to argue. 🙂And if that really was the flash anrating the events and you claim he is unreliable about how fast he said he was going, why should we accept it was acomplished in a fraction of a microsecond or whatever it says there?
Like I said a dozen times I think it was crazy hence I said it tongue in cheek, but he still did it and it isn't the craziest thing he did. But if those people "suddenly materialized" and he did said feat, it would matter more than an after thought just like Spider-Man's "I am 40x faster than a human". (Is he? I don't know.) 😛
But let's play your game. If 187,000 was divided by 2,500,000,000,000,000,000 It would be a number less than one, which was my point that it was leaning more towards one side or the other as the feat wouldn't be possible and he wouldn't have picked up anyone. Although whether the author or Flash said it, it still wouldn't matter as both statements are contradictory.
Originally posted by 753
Those narration boxes were the flash's thoughts? Doesnt look like it. The feat isn't crazy or even pis. It's not a feat at all, it was just a mistake. This isn't about what was done vs what was said, you're just proposing an interpretation of what was done based on real world physics and in contradiction of the storyline. The feat is unusable except to claim the flash can get a heck of a lot done before a nuclear bomb goes off.And if that really was the flash anrating the events and you claim he is unreliable about how fast he said he was going, why should we accept it was acomplished in a fraction of a microsecond or whatever it says there?
I don't see any reason why this doesn't go in the same bin with characters doing clearly ridiculous things on panel (wolverine slashing thanos with bone claws, surfer being KOed with a brick, Red Hulk punching a watcher etc) that shouldnt be possible due to writer error.
The question here isn't even whether or not the feat happened or how it's possible, the question here is instead "The writer has clearly f*cked up." how do we handle this?
personally, I can't see ANY reason why this should be any more valid than any of the above.
The problem with the Flash beating the Surfer, is that characters a lot less powerful, than the Surfer have beaten the mess out of Flash more than a dozen times. On average the Surfer should have no problem defeating the Flash.
Does it make sense for the Flash to defeat a guy that could destroy the entire planet that he was on? A win is a win right?
Originally posted by Space M ummyPretty much. That's the issue with debating here if you treat feats like the only thing that counts with no caution. Kinda another point I wanted to bring up.
I don't see any reason why this doesn't go in the same bin with characters doing clearly ridiculous things on panel (wolverine slashing thanos with bone claws, surfer being KOed with a brick, Red Hulk punching a watcher etc) that shouldnt be possible due to writer error.The question here isn't even whether or not the feat happened or how it's possible, the question here is instead "The writer has clearly f*cked up." how do we handle this?
personally, I can't see ANY reason why this should be any more valid than any of the above.
You need your statistical outliers and other facts at times, with good old logic and common sense. I might have sounded contradictory, but I've always been one in looking at other pieces of evidence. Because even consistency can be screwy. No matter how many times Batman flat out outruns a bullet, it will be PIS, just like Flash being hit by a boomerang. This is no different than a lot of things argued here everyday. That and people will pick and choose high and low and all of that jazz.
