Originally posted by Mindset
Except for them not showing that level of power or in some cases abilities, anymore.
Going that route would make SS, Thor, Hulk, etc. not able to do anything that they have done in the far past if they haven't been doing it in modern times of comics.
I believe most here don't go that route though.
IMO, Marvel has it pre-crisis like days too. When characters were doing silly powerful stuff here and there. Just look at Hulk.
Originally posted by Prep-ManForgot. Still OOC for Hal Jordan. I'll give it it's due, 1/100 fights. Doesn't affect the other 99.
We're using both PC and Post Hal and Adam.
Originally posted by h1a8Silver Surfer, Thor and Hulk were far weaker in the 60s and 70s and early 80s. Far weaker. I don't know why people keep trying to act like they weren't.
Going that route would make SS, Thor, Hulk, etc. not able to do anything that they have done in the far past if they haven't been doing it in modern times of comics.I believe most here don't go that route though.
IMO, Marvel has it pre-crisis like days too. When characters were doing silly powerful stuff here and there. Just look at Hulk.
There's a good reason most people don't go that route.
Thor used super-breath and ran superfast in a park in the 60s. That's about it. Thor also used to worry about falling off buildings all the way through the 80s. Surfer time-traveled alot more in the 70s. That's about it. Surfer also never made blackholes or evolved entire planets all the way through the mid 90s. Hulk once changed direction in mid-air in the 60s. That's about it. Hulk never took a single step and broke Manhattan or took 100 trillion ton punches to the gut with little pause or evolved past the need to breathe in space.
The notion that there's some sort of inherent hypocrisy going on when pre-Crisis notions aren't applied to Marvel characters is almost wholly baseless.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0No. Most people here use ALL feats in continuity for a character. Are you a member here or someone who hacked into a member's account. There has been literally thousands of debates where members were using feats from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
Forgot. Still OOC for Hal Jordan. I'll give it it's due, 1/100 fights. Doesn't affect the other 99. Silver Surfer, Thor and Hulk were far weaker in the 60s and 70s and early 80s. Far weaker. I don't know why people keep trying to act like they weren't.There's a good reason most people don't go that route.
Thor used super-breath and ran superfast in a park in the 60s. That's about it. Thor also used to worry about falling off buildings all the way through the 80s. Surfer time-traveled alot more in the 70s. That's about it. Surfer also never made blackholes or evolved entire planets all the way through the mid 90s. Hulk once changed direction in mid-air in the 60s. That's about it. Hulk never took a single step and broke Manhattan or took 100 trillion ton punches to the gut with little pause or evolved past the need to breathe in space.
The notion that there's some sort of inherent hypocrisy going on when pre-Crisis notions aren't applied to Marvel characters is almost wholly baseless.
You are referring to averages. I agree that many characters (not all) are more powerful ON AVERAGE than in those old times. But character's best feats are found in those times. That is why members refer back to them to debate here to support there character.
Hulk's best feats are before 1990 as well as Thor's and many others. This is a well know fact. If not, then why do so many people refer back to them in heated debates?
Lastly, more powerful wasn't my only point. Also, in the far past is where one can find the most rare exotic feats of a character. Thor did some very exotic sh!t in the past that he hasn't remotely done in recent times.
Originally posted by h1a8When's the last time people used a 60s and 70s feats for Thor, Hulk or Surfer? And most people argue post-Annihilation Surfer and post-World War Hulk Hulk. That's even post-90s!
No. Most people here use ALL feats in continuity for a character. Are you a member here or someone who hacked into a member's account. There has been literally thousands of debates where members were using feats from the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
Originally posted by h1a8No. Thor's, Surfer's and Hulk's best feats were not from those times. People only go back that far for pre-Crisis schlock because they want to inflate their favorite DC character.
You are referring to averages. I agree that many characters (not all) are more powerful ON AVERAGE than in those old times. But character's best feats are found in those times. That is why members refer back to them to debate here to support there character.
Originally posted by h1a8You not reading the characters you're mischaracterizing now doesn't justify the mischaracterizing. Hulk never beat Thor so bad before the 90s. Hulk never evolved past breathing before the 90s. Hulk never healed from a near-skeletal state before the 90s. Hulk never tore half his god damn head off and healed it before the 90s. Hulk never threatened a continental coastline with footsteps before the 90s. Thor never one-shotted Durok w/o Mjolnir before the 90s. Thor never killed Mangog before the 90s. Thor never romped Warlock and Surfer before the 90s. Thor never cancelled out a planet-busting beam with storms before the 90s. Thor never stripped Juggernaut's invincibility enchantment with ease before the 90s.
Hulk's best feats are before 1990 as well as Thor's and many others. This is a well know fact. If not, then why do so many people refer back to them in heated debates?Lastly, more powerful wasn't my only point. Also, in the far past is where one can find the most rare exotic feats of a character. Thor did some very exotic sh!t in the past that he hasn't remotely done in recent times.
And where are you trying to draw a line anyway? Mjolnir absorbing the galaxy-busting Null-Bomb energies? Late 1989. Unfusing himself out of the ground? 90s. Bestowing his might onto Masterson? 90s. Last time he froze time? 90s. Last time he tried to strip immortality? 90s.
NOBODY argues Thor uses super-breath. Nobody argues Thor shrinks people into glass balls. Nobody argues Thor stops a 1/5th universe destroying blast.
EVERYBODY argues Hal uses time-devolve. Everybody argues Hal shrinks Shaggy Man. Everybody argues Hal can stop Big Bang.
Seriously. Is it too much to ask you to stop being crybabies about it? If you can't keep yourselves from being hypocritical, at least stop being such crybabies over it.
Originally posted by OneDumbG0No dude. Stop hacking people's accounts. Almost every fan of a Marvel character here has used a pre 1990 feat for their character. From Hulk destroying the asteroid, to bracing a mountain, to Thor lifting Midgard Serpent, to etc. I'm a old member here and argued many a time against people who said I can't use PC Superman's feats and that old Marvel feats were fair game because it is still in continuity.
When's the last time people used a 60s and 70s feats for Thor, Hulk or Surfer? And most people argue post-Annihilation Surfer and post-World War Hulk Hulk. That's even post-90s!
[qoute]
No. Thor's, Surfer's and Hulk's best feats were not from those times. People only go back that far for pre-Crisis schlock because they want to inflate their favorite DC character. [/QUOTE] This is the dumbest thing you ever said. Both Thor's and Hulk's best quantifiable feats of strength lie before 1990. Those feats dwarf ANYTHING they have done afterwards. I dare you to put your foot in your mouth and show me otherwise.
Who beats who doesn't prove where are the better feats. Dude learn comprehension. I already said that I'm not arguing who is more powerful but where are a character's BEST FEATS found. Those strength feats you named are insects to their best feats of strength found before 1990.
You not reading the characters you're mischaracterizing now doesn't justify the mischaracterizing. Hulk never beat Thor so bad before the 90s. Hulk never evolved past breathing before the 90s. Hulk never healed from a near-skeletal state before the 90s. Hulk never tore half his god damn head off and healed it before the 90s. Hulk never threatened a continental coastline with footsteps before the 90s. Thor never one-shotted Durok w/o Mjolnir before the 90s. Thor never killed Mangog before the 90s.
You still are arguing the point that today's characters are more powerful on average. I agree with that (for most characters). Again, I'm saying that a character's BEST and most exotic feats are usually found before 1990. More exotic is rather an opinion though. It means most strange or rare feat you would never imaging a character being able to do.
Yes late 1989 is pre 1990. My point.And where are you trying to draw a line anyway? Mjolnir absorbing the galaxy-busting Null-Bomb energies? Late 1989. Unfusing himself out of the ground? 90s. Bestowing his might onto Masterson? 90s. Last time he froze time? 90s. Last time he tried to strip immortality? 90s.
The others are utter garbage compared to what he's done before 1990. You listed some B/C rated exotic feats. More A ones are before 1990.
[qoute]
NOBODY argues Thor uses super-breath. Nobody argues Thor shrinks people into glass balls. Nobody argues Thor stops a 1/5th universe destroying blast.[/QUOTE] You must be blind or new here then. Because I heard it all. From taking away people's power, to putting people to sleep, to taking souls, to stopping a 1/5th universe blast (before 1990), to matter manipulation, to super hearing, to wiping memory, to time travel, to taking away magnetic fields, to pointing and BFRing from a blast, etc.
I didn't claim what one should argue. Personally, I try to use current feats as much as possible. But considering so many people who I debate like to dig into the archives as it is fair game makes me think that sometimes I'm entitled too. Why is the first time someone who does this for D.C. there is a problem? That my friend is hypocritical. Where were you all these years when I was arguing against people who did that to me (they knew I couldn't use PC feats for D.C.)? Yet you stand strong when someone uses a pre 1990 it for the first time in D.C.? Hmmmm.
EVERYBODY argues Hal uses time-devolve. Everybody argues Hal shrinks Shaggy Man. Everybody argues Hal can stop Big Bang.Seriously. Is it too much to ask you to stop being crybabies about it? If you can't keep yourselves from being hypocritical, at least stop being such crybabies over it.
If you are not arguing that them I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
He certainly could manipulate him somehow, but I doubt it will work. He did manipulate Shaggy Man, a whole town, a plant god, etc... So, it's not out of the realm of possibility.Though, SHAZAM had a hard time manipulating Black Adam and failed. I don't see Hal on SHAZAM's level.
For what it's worth, a mook GL also manipulated the essence of Swamp Thing. Actually bottled it up in a construct.
Yes, it's not a Hal feat, but it wasn't portrayed as requiring special knowledge or skill, or beyond any competant GL.
Originally posted by h1a8I dare you to show me why something from the 1980s of Marvel, where there isn't a company-wide retcon of entire histories makes that feat just as unusable as something from the 1930s-60s of DC.
No dude. Stop hacking people's accounts. Almost every fan of a Marvel character here has used a pre 1990 feat for their character. From Hulk destroying the asteroid, to bracing a mountain, to Thor lifting Midgard Serpent, to etc. I'm a old member here and argued many a time against people who said I can't use PC Superman's feats and that old Marvel feats were fair game because it is still in continuity.This is the dumbest thing you ever said. Both Thor's and Hulk's best quantifiable feats of strength lie before 1990. Those feats dwarf ANYTHING they have done afterwards. I dare you to put your foot in your mouth and show me otherwise.
Other than the crybaby attitude. And stop moving the goalpost. Now your focus is only on the absolute highest showings of strength? I already pointed you towards the absolute highest showings of overall power, post-00s. And your supposed main beef was about one-time exotic one-shot powers.
Either you can't focus your arguments or you're trying to deflect from your own butt-hurt.
Originally posted by h1a8More deflection. Hulk holding back and nearly breaking the continental coastline with a footstep is not an insect strength feat compared to Secret Wars. Hulk struggled to brace a 50 billion ton mountain? He JUST took a 100 trillion ton punch to the gut to nearly NO EFFECT.
Who beats who doesn't prove where are the better feats. Dude learn comprehension. I already said that I'm not arguing who is more powerful but where are a character's BEST FEATS found. Those strength feats you named are insects to their best feats of strength found before 1990.You still are arguing the point that today's characters are more powerful on average. I agree with that (for most characters). Again, I'm saying that a character's BEST and most exotic feats are usually found before 1990. More exotic is rather an opinion though. It means most strange or rare feat you would never imaging a character being able to do.
Originally posted by h1a8Acting like January of 1990 is this unassailable crystal-sheen era of pure unquestionableness for feats as opposed to September of 1989 (yes, that's when Thor absorbed the Galaxy-ending Null Bomb's energies) is idiotic. It isn't just arbitrary. It's idiotic. Before you graced us with your position, the arguments being peppered across the forums were that anything pre-1980s was unusable. Then all the butt-hurt fans realized that a crapload of feats they wanted retconned from Marvel were actually from the 1980s. So the goal-post got moved to the 1990s.
Yes late 1989 is pre 1990. My point.The others are utter garbage compared to what he's done before 1990. You listed some B/C rated exotic feats. More A ones are before 1990.
But now it's gotten so bad that you schnooks don't even realize this: you don't argue that a DC characters' post-Crisis (i.e., post-1986) feats must now be banished from being cited because its pre-1990. So how did the veracity of Marvel characters' post-1986-1990 feats (WHEN THERE WAS NO CRISIS) even get questioned?
Originally posted by h1a8Since when have people argued that Thor strips Hal's or Superman's powers? Or put Hal or Superman to sleep? Thor used the soul-suck in the 90s, genius. Who argues that Thor can't be stopped without a 1/5th universe+ destroying blast? Thor's used matter manipulation in the 90s, genius. Who argues that Thor uses super hearing to win fights? Who argues that Thor wipes the memory of people? Who argues that Thor time travels? Thor can manipulate energy, genius, including magnetism. Thor BFRs sh1t, more than any other character, what exactly is your issue?
You must be blind or new here then. Because I heard it all. From taking away people's power, to putting people to sleep, to taking souls, to stopping a 1/5th universe blast (before 1990), to matter manipulation, to super hearing, to wiping memory, to time travel, to taking away magnetic fields, to pointing and BFRing from a blast, etc.
Originally posted by h1a8That sh1t got retconned. This isn't about digging around for feats. You're digging around for feats that didn't happen. You cry about not being able to use a pre-Crisis feat where Hal transmutes a nuclear bomb into confetti from March 1960 and then turn around and try to act like Thor never godblasted Juggernaut backwards in December 1989.
I didn't claim what one should argue. Personally, I try to use current feats as much as possible. But considering so many people who I debate like to dig into the archives as it is fair game makes me think that sometimes I'm entitled too. Why is the first time someone who does this for D.C. there is a problem? That my friend is hypocritical. Where were you all these years when I was arguing against people who did that to me (they knew I couldn't use PC feats for D.C.)? Yet you stand strong when someone uses a pre 1990 it for the first time in D.C.? Hmmmm.If you are not arguing that them I'm sorry. I misunderstood you.
Do you not see how stucking fupid that is? What in your mind, other than the overwhelmingly needless butt-hurt, to clouded your logic to such a degree that you lumped those two things together and acted like we're being the hypocrites?