Hal Jordan Vs Black Adam

Started by Juntai10 pages
Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
You're doubting Superman picking up new abilities spontaneously?

I fail to see how communicating via mental projections is necessarily connected to Superman learning Torquasm-Vo. That's like suggesting that when Superman is focusing on breaking mental control, it's necessarily connected to Superman learning Torquasm Rao.

Give me a break.

No, that's attributed to training and Kryptonian physiology, it's been told to us/shown to us, on panel, same as Superman creating projections.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Juntai
No, that's attributed to training and Kryptonian physiology, it's been told to us, on panel, same as Superman creating physical projections.

Notice how his mental projection pulled his knife from the wall, crushed it, and handed it back to him as a wad of paper?
lmao.

He just picked up that ability too.

Show me where Superman attributed his ability to communicate via mental projections to his training in the Kryptonian martial arts.

... as I understood it, that was a mental projection too. Let me read the comic again.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Show me where Superman attributed his ability to communicate via mental projections to his training in the Kryptonian martial arts.

... as I understood it, that was a mental projection too. Let me read the comic again.

You're right, it was, I just read it, and edited a few minutes before you posted.

He didn't have to state specifically. We know he learned how to create them in an arc, all the same.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

^ "Superman struggles to resist Despero's mind control in Crisis of Conscience... zomg, is teh Torquasm Rao!!!!"

No. Just, no. Mental projections aren't necessarily Torquasm-Vo anymore than struggling to maintain mental harmony isn't necessarily Torquasm-Rao. Stop it.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ "Superman struggles to resist Despero's mind control in Crisis of Conscience... zomg, is teh Torquasm Rao!!!!"

No. Just, no. Mental projections aren't necessarily Torquasm-Vo anymore than struggling to maintain mental harmony isn't necessarily Torquasm-Rao. Stop it.

His ability to resist mental control is because of his will, training, and kryptonian physiology being difficult to overcome, this has been told to us all before on panel.

Just like how they told us he gained the ability to create mental projections.

Interesting huh?

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Juntai
His ability to resist mental control is because of his will, training, and kryptonian physiology being difficult to overcome, this has been told to us all before on panel.
Which has sh1t to do with Kryptonian martial arts that was stretched into a broken ability that was so laughable even Superman fans are embarassed about it.
Originally posted by Juntai
Just like how they told us he gained the ability to create mental projections.

Interesting huh?

All mental projections =/= Torquasm-Vo.

Insinuating that whenever Superman does something mentally, it must have something to do with Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao is sh1t logic. Enough of this.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0

Insinuating that whenever Superman does something mentally, it must have something to do with Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao is sh1t logic. Enough of this.
I never made such a claim. I remarked that we saw him learn how to create mental projections in an arc, and then use them later on. To say it's not attributed is the sh1t logic, bro, and you know it, you're just too stubborn, even when dead wrong.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

The only thing you've done here is make wild claims to make it seem ridiculous he's using a power exactly as we saw him learn on panel by saying "That's like [insert random bullshit here]", when clearly that's not the case at all.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

^ If you're not making that claim then we have nothing to argue about.

In the meantime, my claim stands on its own:

"Superman doing something mentally, necessarily involves Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao" = sh1t logic.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ If you're not making that claim then we have nothing to argue about.

In the meantime, my claim stands on its own:

"Superman doing something mentally, necessarily involves Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao" = sh1t logic.

And mine is the same, seeing Superman learn to create mental projections with Torqasm Vo, then later see him creating mental projections, and suggesting it's not the power he learned on panel but an entirely new one = sh1t logic.

We're settled then, and yours still looks far more ridiculous. Thank you for playing.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

^ It's not my wild claims we're dealing with here. But you're wild claim that "Superman doing something mentally, necessarily involves Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao." Which, as I've been too nice to point out until your repeated ad hominem accusations of my "stubbornness," apparently was largely based on your mistaken interpretation of your own scans:

Originally posted by Juntai
displayed an ability to make mental projections otherwise, ones that even perform physical tasks, like he could through the use of Torqasm Vo and in that Omac issue. You're making a fool of yourself here, not I,
Originally posted by Juntai
you're saying is that Superman lost the ability to perform Torqasm Vo, that let him, among other things, create mental projections that could perform even physical tasks.[Although he never lost this ability in an issue. It's a phantom editorial mandate.]
Originally posted by Juntai
saw Superman learn how to create physical projections with his mind. It's part of a discipline called Torqasm Vo. To suggest that the next time he performs the same thing, is a completely separate ability he picked up while we weren't paying attention[while losing the abilities of the former] is just well . .. dumb . .g0. [See what I did there? 😄]
Originally posted by Juntai
Notice how his mental projection pulled his knife from the wall, crushed it, and handed it back to him as a wad of paper?
lmao.
Did you think I was oblivious to the extra bits of snark whenever you focused on what you believed was a "physical aspect" to the whole scene in question? Which was entirely wrong and more than likely a result of your own wishful projections onto the scene -- as evidenced by this entirely pointless argument? This quote is apt:
Originally posted by Juntai
You've already dug a hole here.
Unfortunately, it's not my job to dig you out of this hole. And this wasn't a game. It was a waste of time.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ It's not my wild claims we're dealing with here. But you're wild claim that "Superman doing something mentally, necessarily involves Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao." Which, as I've been too nice to point out until your repeated accusations of stubbornness, apparently was largely based on your [b]mistaken interpretation of your own scans: Did you think I was oblivious to the extra bit of snark whenever you focused on what you believed was a "physical aspect" to the whole scene in question? This quote is apt: Unfortunately, it's not my job to dig you out of this hole. And this wasn't a game. It was a waste of time. [/B]
No hole to dig out of, just a mistake I clarified on my own with no help from you. Superman learning to create projections in one arc, then using that ability in another and assuming it's not related, is just dumb, and you know it.

Even if it's not physical, he pulled him into a realm of the mind, and even changed the scenery, similar to what he did to Dominus, an entirely different aspect than the physical one.

One way or another, the ball is in your court on debunking it and hopes and dreams aren't cutting it.

We saw Superman learn the ability on panel.
We saw Superman use the ability on panel.

Good luck.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Juntai
No hole to dig out of, just a mistake I clarified on my own with no help from you. Superman learning to create projections in one arc, then using that ability in another and assuming it's not related, is just dumb, and you know it.
A mistake, that was apparently largely the basis for your entire stance. A mistake, that is painfully evident of your wishful projections onto the scene. A mistake, that you kept harping on post after post with a predictably increasing reliance, in a sad display of throwing yourself upon your own sword or, in your own words, a sad display of digging yourself into a deeper hole.

And the answer is, "yes." I knew it was happening the entire time. I'm a bastard. Sue me.

Originally posted by Juntai
Even if it's not physical, he pulled him into a realm of the mind, and even changed the scenery, similar to what he did to Dominus, an entirely different aspect than the physical one.

One way or another, the ball is in your court on debunking it and hopes and dreams aren't cutting it.

Communicating via mental projections =/= bringing someone into the Theta State via an ancient Kryptonian martial art.

How ironic. There's nothing to debunk. Especially when the argument's based on a mistaken interpretation of your own scan, "hopes and dreams" indeed.

Originally posted by Juntai
We saw Superman learn the ability on panel.
We saw Superman use the ability on panel.

Good luck.

Superman focusing mentally =/= Torquasm Rao.
Superman communicating via mental projections =/= Torquasm Vo.

What a waste of time.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
A mistake, that was apparently largely the basis for your entire stance. A mistake, that is painfully evident of your wishful projections onto the scene. A mistake, that you kept harping on post after post with an increasing reliance, in a sad display of throwing yourself upon your own sword, or, in your own words, a sad display of digging yourself into a deeper hole.

And the answer is, "yes." I knew it was happening the entire time. I'm a bastard. Sue me.Communicating via mental projections =/= bringing someone into the Theta State via an ancient Kryptonian martial art.

How ironic. There's nothing to debunk. Especially when the argument's based on a mistaken interpretation of your own scan, "hopes and dreams" indeed. Superman focusing mentally =/= Torquasm Rao.
Superman's mental projections =/= Torquasm Vo.

What a waste of time.

No, not quite that dire to my argument, but you're making the minor mistake the entire base of yours since you have no ground to stand upon in the face on panel evidence. Desperation at it's best.

The base of the argument is in Superman using the abilities he learned on panel again in a later arc, and you've yet to debunk it.

Try again.

Originally posted by Juntai
No hole to dig out of, just a mistake I clarified on my own with no help from you. Superman learning to create projections in one arc, then using that ability in another and assuming it's not related, is just dumb, and you know it.

Even if it's not physical, he pulled him into a realm of the mind, and even changed the scenery, similar to what he did to Dominus, an entirely different aspect than the physical one.

One way or another, the ball is in your court on debunking it and hopes and dreams aren't cutting it.

We saw Superman learn the ability on panel.
We saw Superman use the ability on panel.

Good luck.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Juntai
No, not quite that dire to my argument, but you're making the minor mistake the entire base of yours since you have no ground to stand upon in the face on panel evidence. Desperation at it's best.
Poor deflection. Even by your standards. I'm not going to apologize for you reading those scans where Superman even outright states, "Neither of us is really here," and believing that Superman actually sent mental projections around to do physical stuff like manipulating matter.

And there's no need for desperation when you think that anything Superman does mentally must be necessarily tied to Torquasm Vo and Torquasm Rao, and therefore, any instances of Superman doing something mentally must be evidence of his retention of Torquasm Vo and Torquasm Rao. That's a very large claim to make. Regardless of how wishful, attenuated, laughable, falsely absolutist, and wholly desperate it is. You simply haven't supported your claim.

Originally posted by Juntai
The base of the argument is in Superman using the abilities he learned on panel again in a later arc, and you've yet to debunk it.

Try again.

I dont' have to try very hard to debunk this sh1t logic: "Superman doing something mentally, necessarily involves Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao."

I didn't have to "try" before. No effort was required.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Poor deflection. Even by your standards. I'm not going to apologize for you reading those scans where Superman even outright states, "Neither of us is really here," and believing that Superman actually sent mental projections around to do physical stuff like manipulating matter.
Once again, I clarified this on my own before you even mentioned the possibility of it being wrong. My argument didn't hinge on it. My original posts didn't even say 'physical', just mental projection. I put that into a couple later posts. I had remembered wrong, I corrected my own mistake, and still the wheel turns, with or without it, as it had before I even mentioned it. And your debate is still entirely rested upon it.

And there's no need for desperation when you think that anything Superman does mentally must be necessarily tied to Torquasm Vo and Torquasm Rao, and therefore, any instances of Superman doing something mentally must be evidence of his retention of Torquasm Vo and Torquasm Rao. That's a very large claim to make. Regardless of how wishful, attenuated, laughable, falsely absolutist, and wholly desperate it is. You simply haven't supported your claim. I dont' have to try very hard to debunk this sh1t logic: "Superman doing something mentally, necessarily involves Torquasm-Vo or Torquasm-Rao."

I didn't have to "try" before. No effort was required.

This wasn't simple communication, words pushed over a distance into another's mind like say J'onn does. He created a mental arena, changed the scenery to show him another location and let him see his situation.

We saw Superman learn these types of abilities in another arc.
It's not extrapolation to see him learn an ability, and then use the ability, and suggest it's the same.

What is extrapolation however, is suggesting he lost the abilities, then gained a new one that is astonishingly similar, without a shred of evidence of either one.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Juntai
Once again, I clarified this on my own before you even mentioned the possibility of it being wrong. My argument didn't hinge on it. My original posts didn't even say 'physical', just mental projection. I put that into a couple later posts. I had remembered wrong, I corrected my own mistake, and still the wheel turns, with or without it, as it had before I even mentioned it. And your debate is still entirely rested upon it.
I smell bullsh1t. I didn't argue that point for several pages. I simply waited due to my prediction of how far you were taking it. And you didn't disappoint. You kept focusing on it in no less than four separate posts with increasing arrogance. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that didn't play out as horribly for you as it did.
Originally posted by Juntai
This wasn't simple communication, words pushed over a distance into another's mind like say J'onn does. He created a mental arena, changed the scenery to show him another location and let him see his situation.
Yes, because people push their thoughts all the time, e.g., Batman pushing his thoughts to J'onn in Identity Crisis. That "mental arena" was not the Theta State. Your assumptions are atrocious. That kind of communication via mental projection happens all the time. Hulk showed Dr. Strange Caiera's death and tricked Dr. Strange by changing his appearance in World War Hulk. Cyclops has built rooms in mind. Even Daredevil subconsciously altered Mastermind's mental projections.
Originally posted by Juntai
We saw Superman learn these types of abilities in another arc.
It's not extrapolation to see him learn an ability, and then use the ability, and suggest it's the same.

What is extrapolation however, is suggesting he lost the abilities, then gained a new one that is astonishingly similar, without a shred of evidence of either one.

Only the same when you project wishfully onto the scene in question. Your position has already been revealed as utterly dubious.

Communicating via mental projections =/= the practice of the ancient Kryptonian martial art known as Torquasm Vo. Sh1t logic. Also: read the comic.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I smell bullsh1t. I didn't argue that point for several pages. You kept focusing on it in no less than four separate posts with increasing arrogance. Let's not delude ourselves into thinking that didn't play out as horribly as it did for you. Yes, because even Batman can push his thoughts to J'onn like in Identity Crisis. That "mental arena" was not the Theta State. Your assumptions are atrocious. That kind of communication via mental projection happens all the time.
See how my original posts don't say it, and how easily I transitioned out of it on my own before you said anything and keeping the base of my argument in tact?

That's because it wasn't required, or based upon it.

Yours however is entirely based upon this as your primary means to discredit what was being presented instead of actually using evidence. It's not working. If you need to, look back at my original posts. They don't say anything about the physical aspect of it.

[though looking back through the issue, as you've asked, if you want to be pressing about it...when OMAC/Vienna entered the scene at the end of issue 7, she slapped aside Superman's mental projection of himself, physically.]

I corrected my own mistake, and the argument stood before and after it. With or without the term 'physical', it makes no difference.

Hulk showed Dr. Strange Caiera's death and tricked Dr. Strange by changing his appearance in World War Hulk. Cyclops has built rooms in mind. Even Daredevil subconsciously altered Mastermind's mental projections.
I haven't read these, I can't comment on them. Did Hulk drag Dr Strange into a mental arena and begin showing him all of this on his own power and volition?

Even if they happen "all the time", Superman has this ability in post-Crisis DC as a result of learning it.

Originally posted by Juntai

We saw Superman learn these types of abilities in another arc.
It's not extrapolation to see him learn an ability, and then use the ability, and suggest it's the same.

What is extrapolation however, is suggesting he lost the abilities, then gained a new one that is astonishingly similar, without a shred of evidence of either one.

OneDumbG0 Find Your Own Fire

Originally posted by Juntai
See how my original posts don't say it, and how easily I transitioned out of it on my own before you said anything and keeping the base of my argument in tact?

That's because it wasn't required, or based upon it.

Right. Just your third post on the topic. And you characterize your rush to quickly edit out your last "lmao" comment after I subtly kept impressing the point on you multiple times -- without any owning up to your three prior comments until being forced to when I quoted your post pre-edit --an "easy transition" with an "intact" argument? I've posted on KMC long enough to have seen that maneuver done before. It's lulworthy every time.

You're not fooling anybody.

Originally posted by Juntai
Yours however is entirely based upon this as a means to discredit what was being presented. It's not working. If you need to, look back at my original posts. They don't say anything about the physical aspect of it. [though looking back through the issue, as you've asked, if you want to be pressing about it...when OMAC/Vienna entered the scene at the end of issue 7, she slapped aside Superman's mental projection of himself, physically.]
Don't fool yourself. I didn't have any reason to engage in questioning your motivations until you kept up with the ad hominem accusations of stubbornness one too many times. As it stands, you brought it down on yourself.
Originally posted by Juntai
I haven't read these, I can't comment on them. Did Hulk drag Dr Strange into a mental arena and begin showing him all of this on his own power and volition?

Even if they happen "all the time", Superman only has this ability in post-Crisis DC as a result of learning it.

It's not the Theta State, ffs. What you call "dragging into mental arena" has been used in hundreds of depictions of telepathic conversations/dream conversations. It's Superman communicating via mental projection. Stop projecting.

Anytime Superman does something mentally =/= manifestation of the ancient Kryptonian martial arts, Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. Any suggestion to the contrary is wishfulness and sh1t logic.

Juntai Divine Vengeance

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Right. Just your third post on the topic. And you characterize your rush to quickly edit out your last "lmao" comment after I subtly kept impressing the point on you multiple times -- AND without owning up to your three prior comments until being forced to --an "easy transition" with an "intact" argument?
What do you mean? I didn't have anything I was required to own up to. I looked up the comic scans, I edited my own post, all without provocation from you.

My original posts didn't say it and my argument clearly doesn't require it because of this;

We saw Superman learn these types of abilities in another arc.
It's not extrapolation to see him learn an ability, and then use the ability, and suggest it's the same.

What is extrapolation however, is suggesting he lost the abilities, then gained a new one that is astonishingly similar, without a shred of evidence of either one.

It's really as simple as that.

You have nothing but extrapolation. I have on panel evidence of him learning to do exactly these types of mental projections, and then using them in a later arc.

To reitterate; you have . . absolutely nothing as far as an actual debate goes, only a pressing desire to point out a mistake I made and then subsequently corrected on my own because it somehow it makes you feel better that Juntai too can make a mistake occasionally: like when you said Zero Hour pertained only to the destruction and creation of one universe, or that Ganthet is far more powerful than Spectre. [Did I just go there?]

The difference is I admit when I mess up. 😉

Are we done yet?