Hal Jordan Vs Black Adam

Originally posted by Juntai
What do you mean? I didn't have anything I was required to own up to. I looked up the comic scans, I edited my own post, all without provocation from you.

My original posts didn't say it and my argument clearly doesn't require it because of this;

What an extraordinarily sh1tty quaneuver. Are you seriously trying to characterize your third, fourth, sixth and so on posts as not being your "original posts"? What... the concept of "original posts" is limited only to first and second posts?

Originally posted by Juntai
It's really as simple as that.

You have nothing but extrapolation. I have on panel evidence of him learning to do exactly these types of mental projections, and then using them in a later arc.

You're extrapolating via wishful projection based on a careless mistake. I haven't extrapolated anything. Just stated the obvious: "Anytime Superman does something mentally =/= manifestation of the ancient Kryptonian martial arts, Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. That is sh1t logic."

Originally posted by Juntai
To reitterate; you have . . absolutely nothing as far as an actual debate goes, only a pressing desire to point out a mistake I made and then subsequently corrected on my own because it somehow it makes you feel better that Juntai too can make a mistake occasionally: like when you said Zero Hour pertained only to the destruction and creation of one universe, or that Ganthet is far more powerful than Spectre. [Did I just go there?]

The difference is I admit when I mess up. 😉

Are we done yet?

"Anytime Superman does something mentally =/= manifestation of the ancient Kryptonian martial arts, Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. That is sh1t logic." Srsly, wtf?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
We both know why you edited your post. I literally typed it for you repeatedly ever since you brought up the imaginary "physical" aspect of it. I'm sorry for playing the subtle part of it up. Next time, I'll learn Torquasm-Vo, pull you into the Theta State and hammer you with mental projections of the obviousness.

What an extraordinarily sh1tty quaneuver. Are you seriously trying to characterize your third, fourth, sixth and so on posts as not being your "original posts"? What... the concept of "original posts" is limited only to first and second posts? Stupid is simply stupid.

You're extrapolating via wishful projection based on a careless mistake. I haven't extrapolated anything. Just stated the obvious: "Anytime Superman does something mentally =/= manifestation of the ancient Kryptonian martial arts, Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. That is sh1t logic." Same deflection. Your insipid quaneuvers to justify your previously erroneous and arrogant statements are the only reasons this tangential discussion has dragged on. Your repetitious and utterly transparent attempts to recast this discussion as something other than sticking your foot in your mouth hasn't injected any support for the original sh1t logic. Ultimately, it doesn't matter whether you have dubious motivations. Nothing's changed:

"Anytime Superman does something mentally =/= manifestation of the ancient Kryptonian martial arts, Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. That is sh1t logic." Srsly, wtf?

On panel evidence of learning a skill, then later using the skill > your projection of these being wholly separate abilities.

As it stands, as 'sh1t' as you might think it is- I'm the only one of two of us who can back their 'sh1t' up.

Originally posted by Juntai

We saw Superman learn these types of abilities in another arc.
It's not extrapolation to see him learn an ability, and then use the ability, and suggest it's the same.

What is extrapolation however, is suggesting he lost the abilities, then gained a new one that is astonishingly similar, without a shred of evidence of either one.

Originally posted by Juntai
Once again, no substance, just insults and and same flawed reasoning that your entire stream of crap has been based on. It's getting tiring.

On panel evidence of learning a skill, then later using the skill > your projection of these being wholly separate abilities.

As it stands, as 'sh1t' as you might think it is- I'm the only one of two of us who can back their 'sh1t' up.

And it wasn't my fault that you revealed your predilection for wishful projection with that careless mistake. Dubious theory is dubious.

"Anytime Superman does something mentally =/= manifestation of the ancient Kryptonian martial arts, Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. That is sh1t logic."

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Revealing your quaneuvers =/= insults. I'm sorry if I had to dash your hopes of relying on those deflections to act like your foot wasn't stuck in your mouth.

And it wasn't my fault that you revealed your predilection for wishful projection with that careless mistake. Dubious theory is dubious.

"Anytime Superman does something mentally =/= manifestation of the ancient Kryptonian martial arts, Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. That is sh1t logic."

^ Comics don't support your view that "Anything Superman does mentally = a manifestation of Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao."

You're better than this. I am disappoint.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Comics don't support your view that "Anything Superman does mentally = a manifestation of Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao."

You're better than this. I am disappoint.

He used it for a bunch of other stuff supposedly, like 'taking a punch', or 'casting away illusions', but these boiled down to simply a clearing of the mind. Even in the Spectre issue when he was supposedly using Torquasm to help him search for Spectre's palace is the same.

He learned these abilities, it's called Torqasm Vo/Rao.

He used it in Omac issues 7 and 8, projecting himself mentally across a vast distance, creating a scene and interacting inside of it with another participant. It's even suggested that he can control the scene through superior will, mind over matter, that the other boy simply couldn't. Just as Superman could in his battle with Dominus.

[Also, his mental projection was PHYSICALLY cast aside when Omac/Vienna joins the scene at the end of issue 7, though admittedly, I think that's more for effect.]

To suggest it's anything different, when we saw him learn this exact ability on panel, and use it later, just plain and simply isn't right, bro.

Originally posted by Juntai
Projecting [and battling] mentally from one to another is precisely what Torqasm Vo/Rao was about, it was what he learned. The primary reason it did all the reality altering stuff, was simply because he was out-willing Dominus in the mental battle, and using his own powers against him. Reality control was not actually part of the power-set as many think it is, likely due to Avlon. The reason others were able to see it, was for precisely the same reason.

He used it for a bunch of other stuff supposedly, like 'taking a punch', or 'casting away illusions', but these boiled down to simply a clearing of the mind. Even in the Spectre issue when he was supposedly using Torquasm to help him search for Spectre's palace is the same.

Originally posted by Juntai
He learned these abilities, it's called Torqasm Vo/Rao.

He used it in Omac issues 7 and 8, projecting himself mentally across a vast distance, creating a scene and interacting inside of it with another participant. It's even suggested that he can control the scene through superior will, mind over matter, that the other boy simply couldn't. Just as Superman could in his battle with Dominus.

[Also, his mental projection was PHYSICALLY cast aside when Omac/Vienna joins the scene at the end of issue 7, though admittedly, I think that's more for effect.]

Why would you expect that kid -- who didn't even know that they were having a mental conversation (much like you) -- to have the ability to control the conversation? His reactions are characteristically natural of someone who is weirded out by engaging in a mental conversation, e.g., Layla Miller's first conversation with Emma Frost.

And admittedly beside the point.

Originally posted by Juntai
To suggest it's anything different, when we saw him learn this exact ability on panel, and use it later, just plain and simply isn't right, bro.

In Camelot Falls, Zatanna (and J'onn?) tutored Superman on how to keep a strong mental balance and anchor his state of mind when fighting off the effects of persuasive magical spells through meditative techniques of focused will. That was not Torquasm Rao. Yet it was literally the same concept though, save for the fact that Superman didn't need to enter the Theta State -- and you haven't proven that the sequence involved the Theta State either, mind you. So Superman has used techniques that mirrored Torquasm arts AFTER they were introduced.

But what should be more telling is... why did Superman have to be tutored like this when he has these uber Kryptonian martial arts under his belt that he can pull out of his butt any time? That's a rheotorical question. And that question lies poised and ready to respond to your incredulity concerning this particular scene at hand.

"Anything Superman does mentally = a manifestation of Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao." You had to prove that. You didn't. I went one step further. I disproved it.

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
^ Comics don't support your view that "Anything Superman does mentally = a manifestation of Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao."

You're better than this. I am disappoint.

that wasn't his view.

also, what issue were the mental projections in?

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
I didn't ask you to bust Avlon's T-Vo myth. That isn't what this is about. We already know projecting one's thoughts and forcing a conversation is something characters can do without the benefit of mutant abilities or ancient Kryptonian martial arts.

Why would you expect that kid -- who didn't even know that they were having a mental conversation (much like you) -- to have the ability to control the conversation? His reactions are characteristically natural of someone who is weirded out by engaging in a mental conversation, e.g., Layla Miller's first conversation with Emma Frost.

And admittedly beside the point. You've hoisted a heavy burden on yourself. You're essentially arguing that all mental feats of Superman are necessarily tied to his training in Torquasm Vo and Torquasm Rao. If we were doing this the right way, you would literally have to prove a negative, that no mental feat of Superman's can not be tied toTorquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao. And you haven't proven it. I don't have to do sh1t about it because that's how absolutist your suggestion is. In any case, I'll not waste anymore time on this and point out a mental feat that had nothing to do with Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao:

In Camelot Falls, Zatanna (and J'onn?) tutored Superman on how to keep a strong mental balance and anchor his state of mind when fighting off the effects of persuasive magical spells through meditative techniques of focused will. That was not Torquasm Rao. Yet it was literally the same concept though, save for the fact that Superman didn't need to enter the Theta State -- and you haven't proven that the sequence involved the Theta State either, mind you. So Superman has used techniques that mirrored Torquasm arts AFTER they were introduced.

But what should be more telling is... why did Superman have to be tutored like this when he has these uber Kryptonian martial arts under his belt that he can pull out of his butt any time? That's a rheotorical question. And that question lies poised and ready to respond to your incredulity concerning this particular scene at hand.

"Anything Superman does mentally = a manifestation of Torquasm Vo or Torquasm Rao." You had to prove that. You didn't. I went one step further. I disproved it.

The Camelot falls comparison fails, because Superman didn't learn this technique anywhere else besides when he learned Torquasm Vo. He already knew it in the arc.

I'd have to reread that arc as well, as I'm not sure I've got it off the bookshelves and filed away into longboxes yet[most of the last couple of years haven't been yet, I just look through them randomly], so it'd be a half-dozen needles in a haystack to pull them out. I'll take your word for it, though, I remember something like that- it just doesn't help this debate at all.

There's no negative to prove when we've seen him learn thatability on panel, and them simply using it, without yelling out his moves all anime style[he was even off panel of course when the whole thing was initiated, as it wasn't his comic]. When he's using heat vision, do you want him to yell that out too? Do you need narration to let you know?

Originally posted by -Pr-
that wasn't his view.

also, what issue were the mental projections in?

Originally posted by Juntai
My view isn't as broad reaching as "Anything" done mentally will be applied to T-vo, or T-Rao, this particular instance however is exactly what he saw him learn how to accomplish, and it was given a name to us back when he learned it. Suggesting he lost the ability, then regained another identical one is a lot more far-fetched.

Originally posted by Juntai
The Camelot falls comparison fails, because Superman didn't learn this technique anywhere else besides when he learned Torquasm Vo. He already knew it in the arc.

Originally posted by Juntai
I'd have to reread that arc as well, as I'm not sure I've got it off the bookshelves and filed away into longboxes yet[most of the last couple of years haven't been yet, I just look through them randomly], so it'd be a half-dozen needles in a haystack to pull them out. I'll take your word for it, though, I remember something like that- it just doesn't help this debate at all.

Originally posted by Juntai
There's no negative to prove when we've seen him learn thatability on panel, and them simply using it, without yelling out his moves all anime style[he was even off panel of course when the whole thing was initiated, as it wasn't his comic]. When he's using heat vision, do you want him to yell that out too? Do you need narration to let you know?

Originally posted by -Pr-
that wasn't his view.

it actually isn't...

^ Is so!

jr_shakefist

Wow, how did a Hal Vs BA thread be another Superman debate?!

As for the fight, I'll side with Hal, pc.

^ Because people don't have long enough attention spans to debate characters without pulling in tangents.

<is a hypocrite>

Originally posted by Prep-Man
Wow, how did a Hal Vs BA thread be another Superman debate?!

As for the fight, I'll side with Hal, pc.

Hulk wins.

🙁

Originally posted by OneDumbG0
Then by your rationale, you admit that the time period it comes from is meaningless. Good. You walked right into that one splendidly. And Hulk destroying planet-sized objects isn't PIS. He's held a planet together from breaking apart and is consistently portrayed as one of the strongest characters in Marvel, whose strength is on par with beings like Gladiator, Champion, classic Drax, characters who have destroyed planet-sized objects with their fists.

The feat is PIS, no other quantifiable feat compares. It is far out of Hulk's range to do that. Hulk would need to get very very angry (something that will take both a mighty long time and much stimulus to do).

Just. Like. Hulk. Did. On. Panel. Get over it. 1990 is in the 1990s. This isn't a secret, you nunce.

And you completely shredded your own arguments on whether time period means anything. Your focus is on PIS... or more appropriately, what you think is PIS but are actually high-end feats consistent with how the character is portrayed... or even more appropriately, feats you wish the characters didn't have because you're butt-hurt (hence the no feats before 1990s allowed!!11). These aren't old feats. And whether they are old or not makes no difference by your own admission. These aren't crazy feats. Because it's consistent with the characters as they are portrayed now, most of whom are currently overall more powerful.[/B][/QUOTE] The feat is PIS, I have always argue that from a new member here. Nothing new.
The point is still if we can use Hulk's old feats then we can use GL old ones too.

In the end, nobody ever argues that Hulk punches Superman with a punch that can shatter a planet twice the size of Earth. Nobody ever argues that Thor cannot be defeated with less than a 1/5th universe-destroying feat. Nobody is using these arguments against you. So what's the problem?

You and other GL fans are the only ones that continue to use these arguments, e.g., "pfft, that blast won't do crap, Kyle held a Big Bang (no, he didn't)," "pfft, Hal will just shrink him like he did Shaggy Man," "pfft, Guy will just reverse time on him," "pfft, John wouldn't be hurt by blackholes, even rookies deal with them easily."

At this point, you're arguing for the sake of arguing. For four pages you've now realized that most of the high-end feats you thought were from the 60s-80s, actually aren't. Accordingly, you've also been cornered into admitting that the time period means nothing. You've also learned that characters like Hulk, Thor and Surfer are currently more overall powerful than they were portrayed back then. You're also learning that these feats are actually consistent with how they're portrayed, hence not PIS.

What you haven't learned yet is that all these imaginary hypocritical arguments you think are being forced upon you, are simply reflections of your own insipid rationale. And they always have been.

when another asteroid comes, hulk will do it again... actually, he'll probably send skaar to do that weak shit