No he shouldn't lose all 100 unless its the same two people with unchanging relative skill levels, physics and athleticism for all 100 fights.
Jiu Jitsu guys don't have a guaranteed ability to take down the striker before being KO'd by a well timed knee or uppercut. If/When they are on the ground of course, its all but done.
this is NOT a RL fight. These are dudes with superhuman physical stats... of which, in this particular fight, Cap doesn't have, but Bruce does. Bruce rapestomps Steve without SSS.
Also, please stop disrespecting and outright lying when it comes to Bruce/Batman. Saying he hasn't mastered various forms of MA should be enough to consider you a troll. sneer
Originally posted by CosmicComet
We got off on a tangent. We know what the thread is about.He was just lamenting that its impossible to be a master of every damn art the planet in actuality.
Where would you have the time to even if you had nothing else going on in your life?
Learning every MA in the world before hitting 40 isn't really that ridiculous in the context of a comics world.
Try learning every MA in the Universe before turning 20 as with Karate Kid from the Legion Comics.
Originally posted by StoicRight.. and what makes you think he can't strike? Why do you assume the jiu-jitsu fighter will manage to take the tae-kwon-do fighter to the ground and successfully finalize? He can just get punched in the throat, kneed in the balls or kidneys, elbowed in the temple and go down. All sparring styles have counters to being grabbed, such as evading the grappler for one. Eagle-claw kung-fu is a stand-up style specially effective in dealing with ground fighters, although it is rich in gripping and joint locks itself.
Not really, technically speaking out of 100 fights a Tai Kwon Do master should lose all 100 to a Jiu Jitsu master. If he can not strike, and is pinned and submitted then it is over. No?
It's nonsense to assume either fighter can dictate how and where the fight will play out, simply becasue one is a grappler.
Hrm. I'm going to make the argument that currently if you remove the SSS from captain American the only difference it would make no real difference to him.
In the story arc with those boys that went through the physical training and health diet that captain america went through had super human stats without being given the serum... Basically the same training regime that cap does is why they/he was so fit... Taking the serum out of caps body at this point would leave cap with an a peak human body.. But his ability to forego the exhaustive stuff due to the SSS is gone..
When spiderman loses his serum he isn't a complete weakling for example...
I'd say unless anyone has evidence to dhow otherwise that "removing" the SSS from cap currently makes him a 90 lb weakling I don't think we can assume he does...
Originally posted by rotiart
Hrm. I'm going to make the argument that currently if you remove the SSS from captain American the only difference it would make no real difference to him.In the story arc with those boys that went through the physical training and health diet that captain america went through had super human stats without being given the serum... Basically the same training regime that cap does is why they/he was so fit... Taking the serum out of caps body at this point would leave cap with an a peak human body.. But his ability to forego the exhaustive stuff due to the SSS is gone..
When spiderman loses his serum he isn't a complete weakling for example...
I'd say unless anyone has evidence to dhow otherwise that "removing" the SSS from cap currently makes him a 90 lb weakling I don't think we can assume he does...
Unfortunately, I do not have the scan of him being administered the serum. Try searching for CA's origin.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Um... CA wasn't even physically fit before being given the SSS.
He was weak, and was a test subject for the SSS.Unfortunately, I do not have the scan of him being administered the serum. Try searching for CA's origin.
... I know captain Americas origin. The serum change him from a 90lb weakling to a peak specimen then they put him through a six month training program... Supposedly the same thing that the young avengers kid wet through or whatever thatbkids name was...
And case in point spiderman became super powerful after having the spider bite but even after he loses his powers he does lose the regular muscle he gained...
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygonSteve without the SSs and being turned back inot the 90 lbs weakling he was before the SSS was still able to beat 3 goons amped by the SSS.
Somebody post the scan of Steve with that doctor with the SSS injection.Steve was a frail, sickly weakling before being amped by the serum.
It's clear as day once you see it on-panel.The toothpick became stronger when the serum heightened his stats.
It also heightened his mental faculties, thus he quickly learned different MA.
Current Steve without SSS still has his experience and training.
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
hes right actually. martial arts is ALL ABOUT STANCE. grappling takes it to the floor and makes it impossible to rely on your stance. once the ma'er loses his stance; its over
No.
He's not right.
A grappler will not always get the fight to the floor before being KTFO, especially if the striker is fast enough to evade the shot, and or times a knee just right before the grappler ducks in for a shot.
I'd give a jiu jitsu black belt maybe 65/100 over a master muay thai fighter.
Originally posted by Bentley
It's well known that Steve one-shots Batman with the serum. 😖hifty:
True. But without the serum he was a skinny kid.
But for arguments sakes lets say current CA lost his gene amp and fought Bruce. Bats would win easily.....Steve adapted to fighting with his enhanced biology.
Bruce 9/10. Steve still pulls something out of his ass.
Bruce is a man who tuned his mind and body to human perfection.
Steve is a man with a genetically amped perfect biology who tuned it perfectly.
Take away the amp and Cap loses.
Without the SSS or gear we're just talking about two guys who are approximately equal in skill and physical ability, I say 5/10 split.
Originally posted by the ninjak
True. But without the serum he was a skinny kid.
But for arguments sakes lets say current CA lost his gene amp and fought Bruce. Bats would win easily.....Steve adapted to fighting with his enhanced biology.
Bruce 9/10. Steve still pulls something out of his ass.Bruce is a man who tuned his mind and body to human perfection.
Steve is a man with a genetically amped perfect biology who tuned it perfectly.
Take away the amp and Cap loses.
Originally posted by darthgoober
Without the SSS or gear we're just talking about two guys who are approximately equal in skill and physical ability, I say 5/10 split.Cap's lost the serium before without any kind penalty to his skills. In fact he brought down the entire Serpent Society without it...
Cap did win that MA forum tournament on AICN last year. Caused a bit of an uproar. I've never read instances where Steve lost his amp so my opinion can easily be swayed.
Did Cap still have his shield during this feat? cause his skills with it regardless of amp are awesome.
Originally posted by CosmicCometMuay thai is actually pretty good to counter jiu-jitsu. They have to get within knee and elbow striking distance to do the take down and without stance defenses of their own that's pretty much a goner.
No.He's not right.
A grappler will not always get the fight to the floor before being KTFO, especially if the striker is fast enough to evade the shot, and or times a knee just right before the grappler ducks in for a shot.
I'd give a jiu jitsu black belt maybe 65/100 over a master muay thai fighter.
Originally posted by CosmicCometits very unlikely that hes going to get k-o'd quickly at all. m-aers and grapplers are trained to take hits. i was talking to a mma-er the other day and he said concerning knockout punches you basically dont get knocked out. i mean how many times have you seen someone get k-o'd when they werent wide open?
No.He's not right.
A grappler will not always get the fight to the floor before being KTFO, especially if the striker is fast enough to evade the shot, and or times a knee just right before the grappler ducks in for a shot.
I'd give a jiu jitsu black belt maybe 65/100 over a master muay thai fighter.
Originally posted by Lord_Talron
its very unlikely that hes going to get k-o'd quickly at all. m-aers and grapplers are trained to take hits. i was talking to a mma-er the other day and he said concerning knockout punches you basically dont get knocked out. i mean how many times have you seen someone get k-o'd when they werent wide open?
You gotta stop believing mma shows are real combat. blows to the chin, throat, temples, solar plexus, kidneys can take you out of the fight even without ko, sometimes with a single hit. Not to mention eye gauging, fish-hooking, knee, wrist and elbow breaking etc. and of course, grapplers have weaker defenses against stand-up sparring blows.
the distinction here doesnt have anything to do with martial artists vs grapplers (who are also martials artists) but with ground vs stand up fighting (eagle claw for instance, is a stand up fight built arround trappings, joint locks and fractures). Neither one provides a clear advantage over the other and decent hybrids combine both.