Archdemon vs. Ganondorf (TP)

Originally posted by The Scenario
It doesn't have anything to do with my feelings. The fact is that calling someone a pathetic bot is a personal attack, regardless of whether or not it rhymed. I rhymed perfectly well without attacking you. Now please drop the subject, as neither you nor I can tell the mods how to do their jobs.

No, you misunderstand me. Even though Ganondorf was a leader and had some magical powers, his physical stats were still merely human level. He had human strength, human durability, and he was just generally mortal. Before the Triforce, a sword to the heart could kill him. After he recieved the Triforce of Power, all of that changed. He gained superhuman strength, durability, and immortality, and his magic grew much more powerful. And then, the same sword that killed him before no longer affected him, and failed to cut him again. What you are doing, Quanchi, is trying to argue that the Archdemon is fighting Ganondorf without the Triforce of Power. This is not true. Every time you say Ganondorf was stabbed by the Sages, you are talking about Ganondorf without the Triforce of Power. And when I tell you this, I mention that after Ganondorf got his peice, the same sword failed to harm him upon removal.

As have I. You have seen Ganondorf rip the sword from his chest while laughing. You have seen Ganondorf reform from having been reduced to particles twice. You have seen Ganondorf assume a spirit form when his body was destroyed. You have seen Ganondorf inside a castle as it exploded. All of this, and you still believe that Archdemon has any way to actually kill him?

I must honestly ask you: How?

Hey Quanchi: [B]PROVE YOUR OWN POINTS

If you are not going to meet me halfway and post your own evidence, I really see no reason to even attempt to prove anything to you. And what with your absolute refusal to either post or accept any evidence I ask for or provide since the beginning of this thread, your record indicates that you will dismiss anything I post anyway.

But in the hope that I might convince you that evidence is important, I will give you what you ask for:
YouTube video

While I'm at it, here's a few reasons Archdemon can't kill Ganondorf:
At the very beginning of the video, you can see Beast Ganon has been defeated, and his body burns and disintegrates as Zelda talks. Do you see this? He's disintegrating. Now check 1:03, guess who's back! It's Ganondorf, after having his body destroyed.

Okay, 1:35, Midna teleports Link and Zelda away, and attacks Ganondorf with the Fused Shadows at 2:05. Both Midna and Ganondorf are still in the castle at this point. Scene change, we're now with Zelda and Link. Around 2:27 there's some rumbling that tips them off that some bad s***'s about to go down. 2:30, there is a small energy pulse that is the same color as Midna's spear. Now, we have seen Midna do this kind of thing before, here:

YouTube video

Specifically, see 1:05, when Midna strikes the barrier, that same pulse of light is shown. Also, please note 1:21, where the power expended there renders Midna near unconscious. Also note that Midna's power is nowhere near enough to destroy the castle, not achieving any destruction whatsoever aside from the barrier itself despite the massive light show. The conclusion reached here is that Midna couldn't be the one who destroyed the castle, and using her power weakens her immensely.

Now, go back to the first video, to 2:37. The castle has just been destroyed. Ganondorf stands just outsides the ruins, unharmed, with a new body, and at 2:55 he destroys the Fused Shadows. Since we know for a fact that Midna could not have destroyed the castle (see previous paragraph), and both Midna and Ganondorf were inside the castle during their fight, the only reasonable explanation is that Ganondorf destroyed the castle. This is supported further by the Fused Shadows. As you should know, that artifact is what gives Midna most of her powers. When Ganondorf destroys it, it proves beyond doubt that Ganondorf is more powerful than the Fused Shadows.

Now, for another important bit. The Fused Shadows are the source of Midna's power. Fact. Using their full power renders Midna unconscious. Fact. Ganondorf's power is greater than that of the Fused Shadows by a large margin. Fact. After Ganondorf defeats Midna, she is not seen again. We know that Ganondorf defeated Midna, and in order to take the Fused Shadows from her, he would have had to be very close. Close enough to touch her head, since that is where she wears one of them. Now this:

YouTube video

After Ganondorf is finally defeated, the Light Spirits appear. At 0:10, a figure rises up. At 0:30, we finally see Midna's sillhouette. But wait, she's wearing her helmet. Wasn't that destroyed by Ganondorf? Wait, so something that was destroyed was somehow brought back? On Midna? Well, that's certainly something. Of course, the Light Spirits have disappeared by now. And then later, at 0:52, Midna's back in her true form, after the Light Spirits have already left. Looks like her turning back to her true form wasn't their doing after all. But if they weren't changing her to her true form, what were they doing, I wonder?

There you go, Quanchi. I gave you all the evidence and proof you asked for, and I even went so far as to explain it and post more support from the game. I really hope you'll do me a favor and respond in kind.

I can't believe you still do this. Are you aware of what a flashback is? It is an event that happens in the past. That was past Ganondorf, not the current one. Past Ganondorf recieved the Triforce only seconds before, and had no time to actually build up skill with it. Yet even so, he still killed a Sage. If Current Ganondorf was to actually fight the Sages, he would destroy them utterly. I have told you about the Mirror before, yes? Past Ganondorf, the one with no time to learn how to use his power, was sent away (but not harmed) by the Mirror of Twilight. Now consider Current Ganondorf, with more skill with his Triforce and time to learn, who broke that same Mirror into peices. So you cannot use the Mirror as an argument anymore, since it is no longer a threat to Current Ganondorf. Do you understand this, Quanchi? The Ganondorf that fought Link and destroyed the castle is much stronger than he was when he fought the Sages. So stop using Past Ganondorf in arguments. It doesn't work.

It is not in any way inconsistent. BloodRain and I, in other threads as well as this one, have posted several feats of strength from Link that not only prove he has super strength, but prove that that strength is consistent. You cannot explain away Gorons, Dangoro, the metal cage, the chandelier, Blizzeta, and Ganondorf himself as inconsistencies. Link is repeatedly portrayed as strong, and you are in denial.

Yeah, get back to me when the Archdemon is proven to destroy a castle. The number of nameless mooks it manages to kill does not matter, as they are just nameless, pathetic soldiers. Ganondorf is not a simple human. Even so, the Archdemon could be hurt by normal arrows and swords, so Ganondorf will tear him to pieces. Ganondorf caused much more damage with pure power than the Archdemon ever could.

Yeah, and Ganondorf has four fights with different forms and body reforming during them. Archdemon somehow beats Ganondorf once? Too bad, now he has to deal with Beast Ganon. Manage to take that one out? God form Ganondorf comes next. At that point Archdemon loses any resemblance of a chance it ever had, and Ganondorf still has one more reformation he can use. [/B]

Wrong. I disagree it didn't increase his durability at all it just temporarily warded off the attacks. He does get the triforce he needs it an dis pathetic without it but he still dies when he faces the archdemon.

Wrong. We've seen dorf rip it after it warded off the attacks imo. We see the next sword rip right into him we never see a sword fail to pierce his skin when being attacked with it.

Flaming him or eating him. Dorf is fighting something far more powerful and far more capable along with outweighing by by thousands of pounds and being more impressive in cutscenes.

Dorf is just changing shape he's not critically wounded yet. It's like anything else he gets damaged enough he eventually dies just like any baddie typically.

I think their battle destroyed it as neither showed enough power on their own to do so prior to or after.

I think the evidence makes it apparent midna isn't dead and was just returned and or healed from her injuries not brought back to life.

The sages could still beat him but he destroyed through zant the mirror taking away their weapon. Dorf still had his making it unfair.

I have already covered this and see no reason to reach every minute point in every single thread I see you in.

Dorf hasn't proven himself to destroy the castle nor did he ever show that kind of power against Link.b When dorf dies we see the power being released whereas it's not even comparable to the archdemon's death.

Archdemon could hammer each and every form of dorf. His best form would get annihilated by the archdemon as would possessed zelda.

Originally posted by The Scenario
No, Ganondorf was the one that was unprepared in that scene, since he had just been revived and granted a power he could barely use. The Sages just stood there and watched while Ganondorf broke his chains. Upwards of 30 seconds and the Sages do nothing. It seems you're the one who doesn't understand the scene, as you repeatedly demonstrating by expecting Ganondorf to instantly master everything about the Triforce in under a minute.

'K, so the Sages see Ganondorf revive himself. They do nothing. Ganondorf begins breaking his chains. They do nothing. One chain is broken now. They do nothing. He's trying to break the second one. What do the Sages do now that he's almost free? That's right, absolutely nothing! Quanchi, the Sages had ample time to stop Ganondorf at any point, but they did not do anything until the Sage of Water was already dead. Maybe they just didn't like that guy or something. Doesn't matter. The point is that the Sage had time to prepare, and they simply did not.

Ignoring evidence again? That's what you're doing when you say things that blatantly disregard everything that the Archdemon is portrayed as. The Archdemon failed to crush human bone with his bite in cutscene, and claiming that he can is just setting flame bait. I hope you realize and accept that you are wrong on this point.

That's called ignoring context. Link is demonstratable much stronger and more skilled than the Sages, who are frankly just idiots. In addition, Link is weilding the one weapon that cancels Ganondorf's powers and deals him lethal damage. The fact that he held out as long as he did against Link is just impressive, as well as the fact that he killed Midna and dominated Zelda. In fact, his powers in Zant defeated all of Hyrule.

I've explained this to you at length. If you continue to ignore it, you will just be trolling.

Oh, and Utrigita? Thanks for your support, and I'm sorry to ask this, but I need your opinion. Have I explained this well enough that someone who has not played Zelda can understand it? And if so, is it convincing enough for a third party such as yourself?

Dorf had the power of the triforce which makes the sages look weak by comparison and we still saw them easily best dorf despite being far less powerful.

They were shocked and only act when one foolishly sits there and gets killed and then easily best him.

They could have bfr'd him at any given time but the creators needed to create a sense of drama.

The guy was killed so whether you see it crush bone or disagree it does which is silly it kills him so argue over minute points it crushes pbodies or injures them enough to kill them. Again a crocodile can do so but yet a massive dragon with tons on it of weight cannot ? Wow.

The sages are fools but fools who defeated dorf twice nonetheless which hurts his credibility. Link wins due to fate and nothing more.

Zant's powers conquered hyrule which isn'tvery impressive considering their armies lack of showings and general fear of monsters.

You know I am right. Link was powerful enough to kill Dorf and the archdemon is a lot more powerful than Link. Pretty cut and dry.

Bored...

Originally posted by quanchi112
Wrong. I disagree it didn't increase his durability at all it just temporarily warded off the attacks. He does get the triforce he needs it an dis pathetic without it but he still dies when he faces the archdemon.

What do you mean by warded off the attacks? And if Ganondorf can ward of a fatal wound like a sword to the heart, I don't see how the Archdemon can kill him. See, since Ganondorf can apparently live without a heart, that means he can't die from blood loss or injuries. If he was torn in half, he'd just ward it off as you put it. I've shown you that Ganondorf can reform from having his entire body destroyed. Can you prove that the Archdemon can kill him?

Wrong. We've seen dorf rip it after it warded off the attacks imo. We see the next sword rip right into him we never see a sword fail to pierce his skin when being attacked with it.

Do you know what the Master Sword is? Honest question. By this comment ("the next sword"😉 you seem to imply the Master Sword is just a normal, everyday sword. That's wrong. Just tell me what you think the Master Sword is and I'll correct you, how does that sound?

Flaming him or eating him. Dorf is fighting something far more powerful and far more capable along with outweighing by by thousands of pounds and being more impressive in cutscenes.

You don't seem to understand what "reforming a body" means. Ganondorf is proven to survive with a sword through his heart, despite that being a fatal wound. He's had his body disintegrated and reformed. Teeth and claws literally cannot kill him, as he can reform from that. As for the flames, Ganondorf has proven spirit resistance from touching the Fused Shadows, as well as reforming from Midna's attack with them. In fact, after Beast Ganon was destroyed by burning, Ganondorf reformed in his god form.

Ganondorf can reform from anything the Archdemon does.

Dorf is just changing shape he's not critically wounded yet. It's like anything else he gets damaged enough he eventually dies just like any baddie typically.

Not quite. Again, you seem to be underestimating the Master Sword. And since having his body destroyed is not able to kill him, I can't see any way for the Archdemon to critically wound him to the point of death, since.

I think their battle destroyed it as neither showed enough power on their own to do so prior to or after.

I don't care what you think, as I have proven with video evidence that it was Ganondorf. Even if the attacks combined, you are still conceding that Ganondorf provided enough power to destroy half a castle. Half a castle busting would still annihilate the Archdemon, anyway.

I think the evidence makes it apparent midna isn't dead and was just returned and or healed from her injuries not brought back to life.

What is the logic behind this? Please, provide the reasoning you used to come to this conclusion. I have:
1. Midna used the Fused Shadows once already, and rendered herself nearly unconcious with something not even close to a castle buster in power.
2. Ganondorf is far more powerful than Midna, proven when he won the fight.
3. Ganondorf removed the source of Midna's power, the Fused Shadows, and destroyed them, proving superiority.
4. Midna was still in the castle when it exploded.
5. Midna later appears on a hill, still in Imp form, wearing the just destroyed Fused Shadows and surrounded by Light spirits.
6. The Light Spirits leave before Midna is returned to her true form, indicating that they were not responsible for breaking the curse.

All of this evidence indicates that Midna was killed and revived by the Light Spirits, as the Light Spirits did not turn her to her true form. Since the Fused Shadows had just been destroyed by Ganondorf, Midna could not have had them, yet she did. This is at least one example of something that was destroyed being brought back, and points to the conclusion that Midna was also destroyed and brought back.

The sages could still beat him but he destroyed through zant the mirror taking away their weapon. Dorf still had his making it unfair.

Prove that the Sages could have beaten Ganondorf again, when they were powerless to stop him from breaking the Mirror. Further, the Sages stated that the power that broke the Mirror was unique to Ganondorf, saying that it was him that broke it.

I have already covered this and see no reason to reach every minute point in every single thread I see you in.

I see no reason to argue with you at all. Yet I have returned. Link is strong, we know this for a fact.

Dorf hasn't proven himself to destroy the castle nor did he ever show that kind of power against Link.b When dorf dies we see the power being released whereas it's not even comparable to the archdemon's death.

I give you video evidence and logical reasoning to explain how I reached the conclusion that Ganondorf destroyed the castle, and you have ignored my work and just said, "nuh-uh." That's truly despicable, really. And it doesn't matter what is released when Ganondorf dies when the Archdemon can't kill him due to reforming.

Archdemon could hammer each and every form of dorf. His best form would get annihilated by the archdemon as would possessed zelda.

How? Ganondorf has so many options available to him, such as trapping the Archdemon in a barrier, warping above it as Beast Ganon and crushing it, hitting it with enegy balls and the triforce shaped area attack, teleporting onto its back and slashing it to pieces, disintegrating touch, twilight fields, city freezing, castle busting, etc.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He was bested we don't see how the initial fight went down we do see the sages are shocked dorf is alive due to the power triforce kicking in and then quickly remedying the situation.

Dorf had the power of the triforce which makes the sages look weak by comparison and we still saw them easily best dorf despite being far less powerful.

They were shocked and only act when one foolishly sits there and gets killed and then easily best him.

They could have bfr'd him at any given time but the creators needed to create a sense of drama.

I really don't see what this has to with anything. Since Ganondorf isn't affected by the Mirror anymore and the Archdemon can't BFR, it seems like all you're doing is trying to use Ganondorf's weakest showing to bash him, when you know he gets stronger later. Kinda a waste of time on your part.

The guy was killed so whether you see it crush bone or disagree it does which is silly it kills him so argue over minute points it crushes pbodies or injures them enough to kill them. Again a crocodile can do so but yet a massive dragon with tons on it of weight cannot ? Wow.

If the Archdemon can't crush a man in its jaws, then it cannot crush Ganondorf. Simple. And since Ganondorf can ignore swords through the heart, teeth won't be any different. Also simple. And since Ganondorf can just use his twilight particle form to escape easily, the whole thing is moot.

The sages are fools but fools who defeated dorf twice nonetheless which hurts his credibility. Link wins due to fate and nothing more.

Actually, it doesn't hurt Ganondorf's credability at all. Since he wasn't at his best, and he did come back later and destroy the thing that beat him, his credability is all nicely recovered. Link is highly skilled and very strong.

Zant's powers conquered hyrule which isn'tvery impressive considering their armies lack of showings and general fear of monsters.

Zant pulled a country into another dimension. Armies are worthless in that situation. Oh, and he could freezethe entirety of Zora's Domain, and both of those are using Ganondrf's power.

You know I am right. Link was powerful enough to kill Dorf and the archdemon is a lot more powerful than Link. Pretty cut and dry.

I thought you said Link won due to fate? If that's true, you're contradicting yourself by saying Link was more powerful. Thus your argument is invalid, sorry.

Originally posted by Burning thought
😆 you can count now? I dont belive it.....

Its one lie after the another with you.

Originally posted by NemeBro
Quanchi name a single time Ganondorf was pierced by normal swords.

If you can't do it (I already know you cannot), then get out.

Originally posted by Burning thought
Corrected your post.

Although this:

I agree with.

edit: nvm i continued reading and read this post and it made me laugh also...

Originally posted by NemeBro
Only he survived a fall from much higher up. Which proves your statement wrong. Which you don't realise because you're mentally disabled.