Mother vs. Link (TP)

Originally posted by quanchi112

4.The game is inconsistent in Link's feats to any simple standard portrayal. One minute he gets blasted out of a cannon and doesn't get even scratched up whereas if he gets hit by a piranha plant he takes damage. These things don't add up and make sense like everything does in reality is my point it's inconsistent it's fantasy it doesn't have to all make sense.

It's the same reason Mario gets hurt by a goomba the same amount of damage as being burned by lava its gameplay mechanic.

Originally posted by Coco292
It's the same reason Mario gets hurt by a goomba the same amount of damage as being burned by lava its gameplay mechanic.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. I will agree it gets a lot more complicated in terms of continuity because of the various writers but you understand my point I hope.

2.My opinion is centered around my interpretation of a game fact aka the boots are needed to give Link the weight needed. Now while I say Mother can hurt him I back this up by any single minor enemy in zelda hurting him every time they attack him. Now the varying degrees in which the Mother can inflict damage is purely subjective which muddies the waters of any debate and bias begins to creep in.

3.My claim was always the boots were required which they always were for weight purposes.

4.The game is inconsistent in Link's feats to any simple standard portrayal. One minute he gets blasted out of a cannon and doesn't get even scratched up whereas if he gets hit by a piranha plant he takes damage. These things don't add up and make sense like everything does in reality is my point it's inconsistent it's fantasy it doesn't have to all make sense.

5. Humor on the internet maybe I will try this out one day.

1. Yup. And I'm sure it works just fine for comics, but I doubt it's the same for most games.

2. And I will counter this point that Mother can hurt him by saying that we can't prove Link was ever severely injured by most of those small time enemies, or that he even fought them.

3. Fine. But you and I both know that you were, at one point, in the group included under the title of that dirty little word. Wrong.

4. The cannon is canon. Being hit by this particular plant is not.

5. It certainly keeps one sane. Though it is often times mistaken for trollin'.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. Yup. And I'm sure it works just fine for comics, but I doubt it's the same for most games.

2. And I will counter this point that Mother can hurt him by saying that we can't prove Link was ever severely injured by most of those small time enemies, or that he even fought them.

3. Fine. But you and I both know that you were, at one point, in the group included under the title of that dirty little word. Wrong.

4. The cannon is canon. Being hit by this particular plant is not.

5. It certainly keeps one sane. Though it is often times mistaken for trollin'.

2.They can still inflict damage and bosses and more powerful enemies inflict more significant damage. The Mother is someone who inflicts in her game significant damage against a party of four characters leveled up to extremes by this point.

3.My point was always they were needed but whatever.

4.But the cannon isn't intended to hurt him in the game. It's just a crazy thing added in there.

5. I am enemy number 1 now that bt is sidelined so I wouldn't worry if I were you.

I just want to hear what gk actually wants from me specifically when it's interpretation that is causing most of the fuss.

Originally posted by quanchi112
So what do you propose ?

I propose we don't use collision damage as canon

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CollisionDamage

Originally posted by Coco292
I propose we don't use collision damage as canon

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/CollisionDamage

I just want to pop in to say that an opinion, by definition, cannot be right or wrong. An opinion is just how someone views something, and all of it is subjective. One person may think one thing, while another thinks something else. Niether is right, neither is wrong. What you think of a movie, whether or not you liked it, for example, is an opinion. That the movie was 93 minutes long is not an opinion.

Opinions have no bearing in debates, nor do they have a place. A fact, on the other hand, is something that is proven with evidence and logic, and is not subjective. One person proves a fact, that fact is the same for everyone. One cannot disagree with a fact, at least not without evidence to support them. That the movie was 93 minutes long is a fact. Facts and evidence trump opinions every time.

When someone proves a fact, you can't just say "no." You have to either accept the evidence or counter it with evidence of your own. You cannot counter evidence with an opinion, as it just doesn't work like that.

Also, for the love of all that is holy, THERE ARE NO AND NEVER HAVE BEEN PIRAHNA PLANTS IN ANY ZELDA GAME THAT EXISTS, EVER. PIRAHNA PLANTS ARE IN MARIO GAMES.

THE PLANT ENEMIES IN ZELDA ARE KNOWN AS DEKU BABAS.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1. Well with games the process is a lot longer whereas with comics there are just thousands and thousands of them so with anything that high numerically it's harder to make sense of it all.

2.They can still inflict damage and bosses and more powerful enemies inflict more significant damage. The Mother is someone who inflicts in her game significant damage against a party of four characters leveled up to extremes by this point.

3.My point was always they were needed but whatever.

4.But the cannon isn't intended to hurt him in the game. It's just a crazy thing added in there.

5. I am enemy number 1 now that bt is sidelined so I wouldn't worry if I were you.

I just want to hear what gk actually wants from me specifically when it's interpretation that is causing most of the fuss.

1. Which still doesn't mean the same applies to Games.

2. Yeah. They can inflict damage, but non-canonical damage. And damage like that is completely impossible to be carried over. You'd have to find something like her impaling someone with a durability feat easily.

3. Does it hurt you to be wrong? Or is it that you must have the last word? Well, I, sir, shall claim the last word for my own!

4. How is it not intended to hurt him? He gets shot straight into the ground. Good luck proving that the developers did not intend to say that shooting Link out of a cannon was dangerous.

Of course that's kind of the point. It is dangerous, but it doesn't hurt him at all. Hmm...

5. Oh don't be so full of yourself. BT will always be number one in my heart. <3333333

Originally posted by The Scenario
I just want to pop in to say that an opinion, by definition, cannot be right or wrong. An opinion is just how someone views something, and all of it is subjective. One person may think one thing, while another thinks something else. Niether is right, neither is wrong. What you think of a movie, whether or not you liked it, for example, is an opinion. That the movie was 93 minutes long is not an opinion.

Opinions have no bearing in debates, nor do they have a place. A fact, on the other hand, is something that is proven with evidence and logic, and is not subjective. One person proves a fact, that fact is the same for everyone. One cannot disagree with a fact, at least not without evidence to support them. That the movie was 93 minutes long is a fact. Facts and evidence trump opinions every time.

When someone proves a fact, you can't just say "no." You have to either accept the evidence or counter it with evidence of your own. You cannot counter evidence with an opinion, as it just doesn't work like that.

Also, for the love of all that is holy, [B]THERE ARE NO AND NEVER HAVE BEEN PIRAHNA PLANTS IN ANY ZELDA GAME THAT EXISTS, EVER. PIRAHNA PLANTS ARE IN MARIO GAMES.

THE PLANT ENEMIES IN ZELDA ARE KNOWN AS DEKU BABAS. [/B]

You claim Midna dies without any solid proof. It's an interpretation either way what happened to her before we see her again in the ending just as it's opinion based on what Zant was doing right before Dorf died.

My entire debate has been based on simple gameplay aspects and abilities. The Mother and her abilities and what she can withstand from four party members and the tevinter weapons imo is superior to Link's abilities. Link's strong and skilled enough to get through his entire game but at no point in the game is he portrayed as too strong for other characters to fight back against or counter.

That's why I have always seen this super strength argument as ridiculous because in his own game he doesn't blow through enemies due to being too strong to be denied. He needs to learn the appropriate skills, acquire the appropriate gear, etc. to progress throughout the game.

When he fights someone much bigger and strong you have the boots to counter their weight advantage or when you fight a giant ice mass you have the ball and chain to deal with that.

If Link was portrayed in the game as being unblockable and ripping heads off and just crushing his opponents due to strength like someone like Kratos I'd say yeah this guy is really, really strong in his own game but to me he's never been that way in his own game.

Originally posted by quanchi112
This is all opinion based and saying opinions don't matter or don't factor into an intellectual debate that's ludicrous and here's why.

It's an interpretation either way

My entire debate has been based on simple gameplay aspects and abilities.

The Mother and her abilities and what she can withstand from four party members and the tevinter weapons imo is superior to Link's abilities.

That's why I have always seen this super strength argument as ridiculous because in his own game he doesn't blow through enemies due to being too strong to be denied.

but to me he's never been that way in his own game.

All of this. Stop it. And I don't mean just the bolded. The bolded is what you REALLY need to stop.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. Which still doesn't mean the same applies to Games.

2. Yeah. They can inflict damage, but non-canonical damage. And damage like that is completely impossible to be carried over. You'd have to find something like her impaling someone with a durability feat easily.

3. Does it hurt you to be wrong? Or is it that you must have the last word? Well, I, sir, shall claim the last word for my own!

4. How is it not intended to hurt him? He gets shot straight into the ground. Good luck proving that the developers did not intend to say that shooting Link out of a cannon was dangerous.

Of course that's kind of the point. It is dangerous, but it doesn't hurt him at all. Hmm...

5. Oh don't be so full of yourself. BT will always be number one in my heart. <3333333

2.You can't eliminate this damage. Link like anyone else in any game can and will be hurt by the enemies who attack him just because they don't make a canon video game scene in which he loses that doesn't mean we ignore every single enemy who can hurt him. Bosses inflict more damage and lesser enemies inflict less. This should be standard procedure in all video games.

3.I like to be the last one to pee in a thread so to speak. that much is obvious.

4.This was a ride intended for anyone to ride with the appropriate money just like flying with a chicken. None of this is possible irl so I don't get why this equals real life type arguments.

It isn't meant to hurt him nor be realistic just like flying overhead on a chicken as a fun ride.

5.That's just because he's been here longer than I have.

What I want from you, Quan? You make claims. I want you to provide solid evidence to support them. A game video, a developer interview, info from an official Nintendo player guide. Something solidly direct from the game, or Word of God. Not your own opinion or speculation.

For instance, proof from the game itself, or an interview, that wearing boots makes Link physically stronger, instead of heavier.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
All of this. Stop it. And I don't mean just the bolded. The bolded is what you REALLY need to stop.

Zelda has always been about finding the appropriate gear to get through the latter part of the dungeon and then using that gear to beat the boss.

Originally posted by General Kaliero
What I want from you, Quan? You make claims. I want you to provide solid evidence to support them. A game video, a developer interview, info from an official Nintendo player guide. Something solidly direct from the game, or Word of God. Not your own opinion or speculation.

For instance, proof from the game itself, or an interview, that wearing boots makes Link physically stronger, instead of heavier.

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.It applies to all fantasy. Just because a video guy creator didn't state this doesn't mean this just applies to comics you can apply this to any fantasy medium.

2.You can't eliminate this damage. Link like anyone else in any game can and will be hurt by the enemies who attack him just because they don't make a canon video game scene in which he loses that doesn't mean we ignore every single enemy who can hurt him. Bosses inflict more damage and lesser enemies inflict less. This should be standard procedure in all video games.

3.I like to be the last one to pee in a thread so to speak. that much is obvious.

4.This was a ride intended for anyone to ride with the appropriate money just like flying with a chicken. None of this is possible irl so I don't get why this equals real life type arguments.

It isn't meant to hurt him nor be realistic just like flying overhead on a chicken as a fun ride.

5.That's just because he's been here longer than I have.

1. The point hinges on inconsistencies, which apply far more to comic characters who are subjected to many different writers, than it does to game characters.

2. I'm not eliminating it. Canonically, it isn't there. These minor enemies can be fought or ignored if the player wishes. And you can be struck, or not struck, depending on whether or not you screw up.

3. Then I am forced to continue posting until one of us dies. And I'm somewhat sure you've got a good ten years on me, sir. Nor have you been exposed to the light of JUSTICE!.

4. You're thinking of the wrong canon. The one you are thinking of is indeed a ride, in which it could probably be calculated well enough to shoot someone high up and land them at the peak of the arc, causing minimal harm. But there is one in the sky that Link gets shot out of. Unused for centuries, except for birds that know how to fly.

5. Nah. We share a special connection. Hint: we have the same atmosphere.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. The point hinges on inconsistencies, which apply far more to comic characters who are subjected to many different writers, than it does to game characters.

2. I'm not eliminating it. Canonically, it isn't there. These minor enemies can be fought or ignored if the player wishes. And you can be struck, or not struck, depending on whether or not you screw up.

3. Then I am forced to continue posting until one of us dies. And I'm somewhat sure you've got a good ten years on me, sir. Nor have you been exposed to the light of JUSTICE!.

4. You're thinking of the wrong canon. The one you are thinking of is indeed a ride, in which it could probably be calculated well enough to shoot someone high up and land them at the peak of the arc, causing minimal harm. But there is one in the sky that Link gets shot out of. Unused for centuries, except for birds that know how to fly.

5. Nah. We share a special connection. Hint: we have the same atmosphere.

2.They still get hurt though canonically if you let them hit you you take damage.

3.Evil bastards always live longer and I guarantee I am more evil than thee.

4.both cannons are completely unrealistic and are portrayed as silly unrealistic cool feats in a videogame.

5.How long has bt been here posting regularly?

Originally posted by quanchi112
1.Videogames are handled by different people all the time as well as series varies though.

2.They still get hurt though canonically if you let them hit you you take damage.

3.Evil bastards always live longer and I guarantee I am more evil than thee.

4.both cannons are completely unrealistic and are portrayed as silly unrealistic cool feats in a videogame.

5.How long has bt been here posting regularly?

1. Not nearly on the level of comics, for one. And writers can remain the same among the same series. For example, Miyamoto has been responsible for Zelda for a long time. I don't think he directly writes the story, but it is his creation, and he plays a large role in all the continuations of his series.

2. That's not canonically, that is you choosing to be hit.

3. You are easily more evil than I, but I have something to live for. JUSTICE!!

4. Try again. Silly does not apply. Unrealistic is a given, via the same argument you use whenever it suits you. It's fantasy.

Of course I don't know why I even bother. Opinions matter, right? Link wins because I think he's cooler than Mother.

5. Hell if I know. Does it matter?

Originally posted by quanchi112
I never meant to imply the boots made him stronger I meant heavy enough to achieve the feat.

That's not very logical. The point is when you weigh more you can lift more and not the other way around you tried placing in specific factors which still don't change the issue by any means. More weight equals more strength.

Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
1. Not nearly on the level of comics, for one. And writers can remain the same among the same series. For example, Miyamoto has been responsible for Zelda for a long time. I don't think he directly writes the story, but it is his creation, and he plays a large role in all the continuations of his series.

2. That's not canonically, that is you choosing to be hit.

3. You are easily more evil than I, but I have something to live for. JUSTICE!!

4. Try again. Silly does not apply. Unrealistic is a given, via the same argument you use whenever it suits you. It's fantasy.

Of course I don't know why I even bother. Opinions matter, right? Link wins because I think he's cooler than Mother.

5. Hell if I know. Does it matter?

2.It's still a game fact otherwise you ignore all in game fights and want to argue cutscenes only.

3.Justice will find me but not today!!!

4.It's just as ridiculous as flying on a chicken both of these feats are completely unrealistic and aren't meant to imply that Link can just jump off the emipre state building and not be hurt.

Probably he is cooler than mother just because I loathe female characters but I think Mother wins due to being more powerful and due to her abilities.

5.Why yes it does. I need time for you to grow on you.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I loathe female characters