Originally posted by quanchi112
!. To what degree though ? I think he oversees it sure and ultimately makes the final decisions but I guarantee story wise they decide that occurs and he approves it.2.It's still a game fact otherwise you ignore all in game fights and want to argue cutscenes only.
3.Justice will find me but not today!!!
4.It's just as ridiculous as flying on a chicken both of these feats are completely unrealistic and aren't meant to imply that Link can just jump off the emipre state building and not be hurt.
Probably he is cooler than mother just because I loathe female characters but I think Mother wins due to being more powerful and due to her abilities.
5.Why yes it does. I need time for you to grow on you.
1. To a degree that makes the rule negligible.
2. Actually, I don't argue cut scenes only. Arguing that with Nintendo titles would be total lunacy. The characters would have absolutely nothing.
You argue with what actually has to happen to beat the game. Like knowing that Link beat Ganon, and since it's a boss fight that has to happen, we know how it happened. But Link doesn't have to defeat the plants scattered throughout the forest temple at all. He doesn't even have to acknowledge them.
3. Alright.
4. Lol flying on a chicken. Your own argument, Quan. It's fantasy. And Link is canonically shot from a canon at cloud height, directly into the ground, with no harm done to him.
Oh, and I think Link still wins and that you are wrong. Fun debates when opinions matter.
5. A man after my own heart. Yet it belongs to another!
And I'm gonna stop this now, 'cause it's gettin' weird.
Originally posted by General KalieroIt's still a joke with another poster about what I prefer in a character. I would never ever think to tell anyone their preferences are wrong or get offended by them.
Yeah, not A-grade joke material. It's not funny; you just come off looking like a chauvinistic manchild.
Originally posted by MooCowofJusticeI'm out in this thread for now even my jokes are being twisted into something offensive.
1. To a degree that makes the rule negligible.2. Actually, I don't argue cut scenes only. Arguing that with Nintendo titles would be total lunacy. The characters would have absolutely nothing.
You argue with what actually has to happen to beat the game. Like knowing that Link beat Ganon, and since it's a boss fight that has to happen, we know how it happened. But Link doesn't have to defeat the plants scattered throughout the forest temple at all. He doesn't even have to acknowledge them.
3. Alright.
4. Lol flying on a chicken. Your own argument, Quan. It's fantasy. And Link is canonically shot from a canon at cloud height, directly into the ground, with no harm done to him.
Oh, and I think Link still wins and that you are wrong. Fun debates when opinions matter.
5. A man after my own heart. Yet it belongs to another!
And I'm gonna stop this now, 'cause it's gettin' weird.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It's still a joke with another poster about what I prefer in a character. I would never ever think to tell anyone their preferences are wrong or get offended by them.
Lucky for you that you have that privilege. However, I've no problem in calling people out for troublesome comments and telling them that their preferences are wrong when they clearly are.
Also, telling someone to lighten up when they call you out for such comments? Definitely not a good idea.
I tolerate sexist comments as well as I tolerate comments that are racist or homophobic. Which is to say, I don't at all.
Originally posted by PeachI am referring to a video game character not a real person. I tend to prefer males in terms of coolness as I am a male myself. If I were a female I probably would enjoy females. This is my preference which had to do with which characters I tend to typically enjoy. It was also done in a joking manner anyways to another poster who initiated a lighter moment outside the debate.
Lucky for you that you have that privilege. However, I've no problem in calling people out for troublesome comments and telling them that their preferences are wrong when they clearly are.Also, telling someone to lighten up when they call you out for such comments? Definitely not a good idea.
I tolerate sexist comments as well as I tolerate comments that are racist or homophobic. Which is to say, I don't at all.
It has nothing to do with women or men in reality and how I view them. I don't take this lightly at all nor will I condone being made into some sort of chauvinist when it was clearly a joke with which characters I enjoy.
Originally posted by General KalieroReally? Because:
[QUOTE=13042619]Originally posted by quanchi112
[B]I never meant to imply the boots made him stronger I meant heavy enough to achieve the feat.
That's not very logical. The point is when you weigh more you can lift more and not the other way around you tried placing in specific factors which still don't change the issue by any means. More weight equals more strength.
Originally posted by General Kaliero[/B][/QUOTE] Irl this is how it does translate but I don't want to lose sight of my intention here. In the game however my point has always been boots---feat possible without them not possible. They didn't increase his overall strength but gave him the weight possible to counter these behemoths.
Really? Because:You sure as hell seemed to be implying that boot weight makes him stronger.
Originally posted by General KalieroHear me out here. Weight does translate into strength but we cannot compare obese people to weight trainers or anyone else we need to compare ourselves say at 100 pounds vs at 200 pounds. Who can lift more you at 100 or you at 200 with the same amount of training at these weights ?
So you're admitting now that you were wrong then. Okay.(For the record, pure weight does not in any way translate to strength, and my current home city has many bulbous redneck women who have to ride motorcarts instead of walk to prove it)
Originally posted by General KalieroMore mass in general does like in my example but yes more muscles mass. I think you are focusing too much on training in a gym though if you get a fat out of shape slob at 350 lbs. vs. a skinny runt who is pretty strong for his weight at 150 lbs. the fat guy would annihilate him in a tug of war.
Okay, so you're overgeneralizing. What you mean is that muscle mass correlates to strength, which is (in general) true.
However if they focus on a chest workout the fat guy's chest might be just pathetic by comparison but still in a tug of war or sumo matchup the skinny guy will have no chance.
Link isn't even close to their weight and 200 lbs. difference isn't even close to the difference here between a goron and Link.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Well it was just but I do like to have fun.Yes, but he can succeed with getting knocked off as well so how he succeeds isn't canon it depends on gameplay and the skill of the player proving his strength isn't beyond the horse.
We are repeating ourselves here but without the boots you can't lift one. Link isn't strong enough on his own he needs gear to do so.
It's all speculative either way that guy wasn't super strong he was just stronger than link.
Yes, as he can do so but like I said earlier this game laughs in the face of realism and him getting shot out of cannons and surviving is similar to him moving stones of slab this doesn't imply he's super strong or can drop thousands of feet irl just in this fantasy realm.
Yes, but he still needs the boots to alter his weight so on his own he isn't strong enough without the weight to make this possible.
It affects the person wielding it which is Link.
Just don't bring him up anymore. Thanks.
Yes, because most characters in fantasy games do things real people aren't capable of with jumping alone but these feats don't mean he's superstrong in his own verse which was my point from the very get go.
I've already explained my opinion in this thread and restated it. We differ as opposed to our interpretations of the evidence.
Heavy boots = stop weight. Heavy boots =/= lift weight. Your logic and inability to give evidence is surprising.
Sure, but with no strength feat pegging Darkhammer down your argument stops here.
All that stuff you said, counted as legit in KMC. If he says it happens it happens. End of.
No he isnt heavy enough. Been proven several times now. I just pointed out 4 different sources explaining how youre wrong and all you do is come back with your infamous opinion.
Do you understand what 'lift' means? Everything youre talking about is 'stopping', to let you know there is a difference. Understand yet? Weight stopes the momentum, strength 'lifts' the object. Chandelier and metal cage are still two [consistent] times he uses strength that youve fail to counter without hiding behind something.
Again, evidence is golden. Prove it, not say it.
''posts evidence. Opinions<<facts.'' Do you ignore half the words addressed to you?
And those fantasy feats of strength are counted as strength feats here. Can ask a mod if you cant grasp it by yourself, or just read the new rule 14.
Right then whats your idea of giving evidence? Because -your opinion<<<<<<my opinion+gameplay+in-game descriptions+clips+game and developers quotes-
If all you have is your opining then give up now.
It looks to me like you don't know which feat we're talking about, then.
You seem to be talking about things like 0:44 almost exclusively. And you're right in that Link does need the boots to stop Dangoro's rolling. But the feat I and most others are talking about is what occurs right after, at 0:46. Link, having already stopped Dangoro, pick him up, swings him around, and throws him. That part is where Link shows superhuman strength, because he has lifted Dangoro off the ground and thrown him. At that point it is not like a tug of war or sumo match, because Link has picked Dangoro up entirely. Now it's just pure weightlifting.
Wasted time before I could edit: Ah cool, now GK's ordering in some proof. Cant wait for what your next reply will be like.
Its simple that artificial weight can't give you strength. That connection only works in the natural sense. All that big guy vs a skinny guy proves is that the skinny lads strength is < the big guys weight and if the skinny one put on the Iron Boots he still wouldnt be able to beat the big guy as his strength is still inferior to the weight he's against. In this situation Link's strength is > Goron's weight.
Originally posted by BloodRainPlayer skill isn't a nonfactor as we don't know to which degree of difficulty he stays on the horse and the issue is it isn't easy to him it's a struggle.
Ego, gotcha. No the succeed is him winning, player skill is a non-factor.Heavy boots = stop weight. Heavy boots =/= lift weight. Your logic and inability to give evidence is surprising.
Sure, but with no strength feat pegging Darkhammer down your argument stops here.
All that stuff you said, counted as legit in KMC. If he says it happens it happens. End of.
No he isnt heavy enough. Been proven several times now. I just pointed out 4 different sources explaining how youre wrong and all you do is come back with your infamous opinion.
Do you understand what 'lift' means? Everything youre talking about is 'stopping', to let you know there is a difference. Understand yet? Weight stopes the momentum, strength 'lifts' the object. Chandelier and metal cage are still two [consistent] times he uses strength that youve fail to counter without hiding behind something.
Again, evidence is golden. Prove it, not say it.
''posts evidence. Opinions<<facts.'' Do you ignore half the words addressed to you?
And those fantasy feats of strength are counted as strength feats here. Can ask a mod if you cant grasp it by yourself, or just read the new rule 14.
Right then whats your idea of giving evidence? Because -your opinion<<<<<<my opinion+gameplay+in-game descriptions+clips+game and developers quotes-
If all you have is your opining then give up now.
Yes, I agree but without the boots he doesn't have the necessary weight to stop the gorons which is my point. Strength isn't the issue here entirely for the feat so unless he puts on his boots he doesn't have the weight to do anything to someone of this size.
As in comics as well most enemies don't have the luxury of strength feats but we see how strong these characters are really in comparison. I view it like comparing marvel's Thor against marvel's Hulk. Both have insane feats but these feats really don't prove who is stronger than the other it comes down to how they match up and their powers which Hulk takes due to increasing strength with increasing rage.
Yes. all these feats do count but in zelda being shot out of a cannon isn't the same as being shot out of a cannon in reality just like flying on a chicken can't happen in reality. It makes no sense that's why we cannot treat these as exactly the same.
Yes, I agree and without being heavy enough he can't perform the said feat. Link has the strength to do crazy things but against bigger foes he needs the weight to match up against them.
I agree Link has considerable strength and can lift heavy objects but really bigger enemies and what not he needs gear to beat. By gear I mean ball and chain and the boots to give him the necessary weight. Link's strength is a non issue when sword fighting dorf or enemy knights because while he is strong he isn't strong enough to just rip through anyone's defenses it requires skill.
Prove what I am confused as to what exactly you are responding to ?
I am not dismissing any strength feats here. Link is strong yes, but not strong enough to have a real advantage against someone like the Mother with her size and her abilities. He will be attacked in multiple different directions at all times and I feel like his sword swipes would take too long to take out the tentacles before he can even successfully attack the Mother.
The game backs me up and by that I mean this. I mean Link's strength while awesome at times is still able to be stopped by enemy opposition on the higher end levels. He can still be blocked and parried and will need gear such as the boots for much bigger foes which hurts his mobility and if he whips out the ball and chain this also kills his mobility but does pack a whallop. These are in game facts when wielding these weapons.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Player skill isn't a nonfactor as we don't know to which degree of difficulty he stays on the horse and the issue is it isn't easy to him it's a struggle.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, I agree but without the boots he doesn't have the necessary weight to stop the gorons which is my point. Strength isn't the issue here entirely for the feat so unless he puts on his boots he doesn't have the weight to do anything to someone of this size.
Originally posted by quanchi112
As in comics as well most enemies don't have the luxury of strength feats but we see how strong these characters are really in comparison. I view it like comparing marvel's Thor against marvel's Hulk. Both have insane feats but these feats really don't prove who is stronger than the other it comes down to how they match up and their powers which Hulk takes due to increasing strength with increasing rage.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes. all these feats do count but in zelda being shot out of a cannon isn't the same as being shot out of a cannon in reality just like flying on a chicken can't happen in reality. It makes no sense that's why we cannot treat these as exactly the same.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, I agree and without being heavy enough he can't perform the said feat. Link has the strength to do crazy things but against bigger foes he needs the weight to match up against them.I agree Link has considerable strength and can lift heavy objects but really bigger enemies and what not he needs gear to beat. By gear I mean ball and chain and the boots to give him the necessary weight. Link's strength is a non issue when sword fighting dorf or enemy knights because while he is strong he isn't strong enough to just rip through anyone's defenses it requires skill.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Prove what I am confused as to what exactly you are responding to ?
Originally posted by quanchi112
I am not dismissing any strength feats here. Link is strong yes, but not strong enough to have a real advantage against someone like the Mother with her size and her abilities. He will be attacked in multiple different directions at all times and I feel like his sword swipes would take too long to take out the tentacles before he can even successfully attack the Mother.
Originally posted by quanchi112
The game backs me up and by that I mean this. I mean Link's strength while awesome at times is still able to be stopped by enemy opposition on the higher end levels. He can still be blocked and parried and will need gear such as the boots for much bigger foes which hurts his mobility and if he whips out the ball and chain this also kills his mobility but does pack a whallop. These are in game facts when wielding these weapons.
Originally posted by BloodRainCorrect, but in the same vein we cannot say Kratos cannot be hurt by minor foe.
We go by success unless the fail shows something thats important. EG If in a GoW QTE the player fails to beat a minor foe that doesnt mean Kratos is weaker then said foe. its something that wouldnt happen if the player didnt mess up.Then its settled that an attack from Link is above one from Dragon Age seeing as youve just said that boots dont touch his strength, thus the strength is all Link's.
Sadly all we know is that Darkhammer can wield the Ball&Chain. All it says is that its stronger then Link, doesnt make him any weaker though.
''14. All characters are, by default, presented in vs. threads as they are in their respective games. This includes physical feats of strength, speed, durability, etc. shown in the games, regardless of the universe.'' -shrugs-
The weight is only there to stop Goron's from lifting him. As no matter how strong he is his weight doesnt change and his weight<<Gorons strength. Like with his other feats his upper body strength is all natural, so his strikes would retain that power. Metal cage/Chandelier[No use of gear] + Rule 14 = Link has super strength.
The Magic Armor... actually neither of us really need to debate this.
The Mother loses to people with human strength, speed and durability. They range from athlete to peak human at best. Link has already shown the strength above them and is more skilled then knights and soldiers. Even The Hero's Shade, a famous master swordsman recognises him as a master swordsman. He's stronger and has a high level of skill with the benefits that come with it, so if humans can defeat her so can Link.
Those things come down to gameplay mechanic, is why the strongest characters cant kill their opponents in one hit and attacks can be blocked by the weakest enemies.
I don't see it mattering if he's stronger or not than a grey warden I don't see it being that much more that he couldn't go *** for tat against Link like every enemy knight does in the game. I also see him being nowhere near as versatile and having weaker armor than most but that's besides the point the Mother is powerful enough to really hurt him just like any major boss who isn't as powerful as the damage Mother can inflict to multiple opponents at a time.
Like most enemies their time in the sun is brief but we do know he's a lot stronger than Link and Link still wins due to skill. Being stronger than someone helps but even in this case it isn't the determining factor just like it wouldn't be in this matchup or against the grey wardens.
Yes, but in that universe the rules are slightly different and more fantastical. His feats still stand but in his verse you can survive being shot out of a cannon or ride chickens. Not the same effect in reality.
Link is strong yes, but against the gorons he needs the weight so without the weight he's useless against a bigger foe. Most of these other feats are him lifting inanimate objects and isn't the same as taking someone on who is bigger and actively resisting him which he needs the boots for.
Fine.
The Mother loses to a group of fighters. She takes on 4 and you have a whole slew of abilities and talents Link doesn't along with ancient tevinter weapons who greatly aid you.
it isn't just humans against her and these aren't normal regular joe schmoes they are talented and in a group and all of these abilities when worked together are quite formidable. Can Link best this part of four ?
You can't ignore gameplay mechanics nor can you ignore the lessons from the hero showing you how important skill is.