Look, let's just get this portrayal nonsense out of the way. Skip to around 8:55 - 9:50 in this video. For a basic summary, Miyamoto himself acknowledges that no human could push a giant stone block, calling it absurd, but allowing it because it's fun and gives a sense of experience. They even go so far as to say it isn't comedic when Link does these things.
Thus it seems Link is intended to be superhuman in serious way, because it's fun and makes the player feel strong when Link does something that requires super strength.
That is called Word of God, and you cannot argue with it.
Originally posted by The ScenarioIt was you my friend who brought the prophecy into this you brought it up which in actuality destroys all of Link's feats and accomplishments due to there being no other path than this one. He fell victim when the prophecy chose him to and triumphed when it chose him. This also backs up he is strong as he needs to be as his destiny must come true.
I give you a video of both the Triforce and the Master Sword protecting Link, and you claim Link was protected by prophecy. That is just...irritating. I have proven twice over that Link has items that protect him and you have only your word and opinion that they won't. You have proven nothing, Quanchi, and until you do, Link is unaffected by the Mother's mental attack.Do you want to use canon or gameplay?
Canon- Link was unharmed by that attack
Gameplay- Link was harmed by subsequent attacks.
Prove it. Prove the party even has tevinter weapons. Also, I don't want to keep telling you this, but there are no Piranha Plants in any Zelda game. Those are Mario enemies. What you are thinking of are Deku Babas, and at no point are they portrayed as a threat to Link. Do you think Link will just stand still and let anyone hit him?
So are you. You're ignoring Link's health and all of his abilities and skills. He could literally just Clawshot into the Mother's face for a Mortal Draw, and there is nothing she can do about this. He'll bypass the tentacles with the clawshot, he can attack before the grubs even spawn, and the Mother can't deal enough damage on her own to stop him.
He also says that strength isn't everything. Stopping a rolling Goron is all sbout weight, and strength helps. But once the Goron is actually stopped, and Link lifts it off the ground? That's all strength, and it's very clear. Bo never even knew about Dangoro, either, and lifting him makes Link superhuman
I have. The armor is powered by money. It is powered by rupees, the hylian system of currency. It is powered by Link's wallet. Link does not have any magic, so it doesn't matter if it's taken away.
Context Mother can still be cut by a knife and Link is stronger than anything she has ever faced.
What man? There is no man running the sky cannon. I even showed you the video that proves this. Why do you keep ignoring the BIRDS? No human besides Link has ever ridden the thing, so there is no way to know what was intended, since it was built to fire BIRDS. Link being fired at a lake unharmed proves that he is highly durable, no matter what you say.
Bo still beat a Goron in a sumo match, which requires strength. You cannot ignore Bo's strength.
And you're debating things you don't understand, yet I have painstakingly attempted to teach you everything I can. Why won't you do the same for me?
No, because they are weak. But Link has a legitimate one hit kill and legitimate super strength, so he very well can pull it off.
And as I explained in the revelant thread, that means absolutely nothing and does not support you at all.
Show me where Link dies in one hit if he fails. Please, go ahead. Now, if you can't, you'll just have to accept that Link can pull this off with or without the armor before Mother can hit him, and even if she does, Link can just do it again.
You are aware that research is one of my specialties here, right? I have this amazing ability to search youtube for hours and finds feats and things in order to gather evidence. I know perfectly well what I'm talking about, thank you very much.
Mother is a weak final boss, what with her relatively low HP pool and mediocre damage compared to most others. GK showed you that video of just someone killing her solo, right?
But not canon. By cutscene, Link was unharmed. By gameplay, Link was harmed but he can take several of those attacks and be fine.
No, it doesn't. Your fatalistic argument hold no water, since Link still kicked Zant's ass six ways to sunday. This is the same as the Past Ganondorf vs Current Ganondorf thing. Past Link was not as good as Zant. Current Link destroyed him.
Why do you hate Ganondorf so much? Honestly, you just keep taking these potshots with nothing to support you at all. I have repeatedly shown you that the Triforce is passive and Ganondorf was not trying to access it. You are ignoring my words and just trying to troll. Please be mature about this in the future.
Her attack will indeed affect him as the prophecy doesn't protect him nor was he able to ward off any enemy attacks during fights.
We use both. Why wouldn't we ? You don't use one scene and then ignore the fact he gets hurt every time he is attacked thereafter and claims he can easily shrug off all axe attacks do ya ?
Not in this thread in the actual game. Mother can tank these attacks too which was my point. I am not hunting for vids you are unfamiliar yet debate on anyways showing me it doesn't matter zelda characters must win since you don't know enough and haven't played it.
Whatever they are they still hurt him which is my point and everything hurts him just like anything in dragon age would hurt him. These silly things about people not being strong enough to hurt Link or Raziel has to stop it's moronic.
If he attempts the mortal draw he dies and the tentacles are hitting him before he can do anything. Can Link just kill dorf with the mortal draw one hit ?
Link isn't strong enough to do anything to a goron without the boots. Show me one scene where he can do so without the boots.
Bo could probably do so either and Link needing to go to Bo proves he isn't superhuman he needed the same gear Bo used to best one.
It's still magical armor which this attack goes right after. You're trying to bring in a gameplay mechanic to justify this but at the end of the day it's powered by magic and in the game to make it fair you lose rupees.
Mother was cut after a knife after being weakened. I mean if you won't acknowledge that you aren't mature enough to debate.
You changed your point to the sky cannon and the first feat is impossible irl as well but still proves my points these cannons don't kill you in the zelda game. Portrayal not fanboy logic.
Bo beat one due to the boots. The boots which the gorons would be pissed about which he kept secret. Bo isn't strong enough he needs the boots just like Link does.
I understand this perfectly you do not. Not my problem.
Link isn't super strong nor will he ever have the chance and if so he dies as he is attacked by a tentacle while doing this or attempting.
It's explained in the game. Poor job of carrying it over. Shame on those lazy nintendo guys.
I am aware you debate for zelda without even knowing his competition.
In dragon age you can really make monster characters and with the weapons you have at your disposal at this point in the dc she doesn't have a chance. This is just a skilled gamer anyways and if you watched a video where the mother killed you in 50 seconds this is just another example of gaming expertise.
I explained why and how the cutscene was possible I know you argue illogically for pro zelda feats but come on man in reaklity he gets hurt by axes and even in the game in one scenen he shrugs off one attack. I'm right again.
Link won due to fate taking away everything for the feat. he won because there was no other option and fate decreed it so.
I don't hate dorf I had a sig with him in it. I mean come on man it wasn't a humiliating sig where he dies so just relax.
Originally posted by General KalieroI did play it. I went through and beat the game so please quit saying I am lying about it.
Having played it, right?OH WAIT.
You haven't.
Originally posted by The ScenarioI don't have sound. What exactly does he state ?
YouTube videoLook, let's just get this portrayal nonsense out of the way. Skip to around 8:55 - 9:50 in this video. For a basic summary, Miyamoto himself acknowledges that no human could push a giant stone block, calling it absurd, but allowing it because it's fun and gives a sense of experience. They even go so far as to say it isn't comedic when Link does these things.
Thus it seems Link is intended to be superhuman in serious way, because it's fun and makes the player feel strong when Link does something that requires super strength.
That is called Word of God, and you cannot argue with it.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I did play it. I went through and beat the game so please quit saying I am lying about it. I don't have sound. What exactly does he state ?
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9034836
Miyamoto: Yeah, that’s right. As we’re making Zelda I continue to discuss with Aonuma-san and the team as to why and what makes Zelda so much fun. We talk a lot about what is that flavor of Zelda. I think there’s a sense of realism in being in the land of Hyrule. But I think that realism comes from the characters and the details of the scenes. You need a sense that you are actually doing these actions, that you are in that world. So in that sense pushing a huge block is actually kind of absurd. I don’t think anyone wants to see a young man pushing giant blocks with graphics that are better than that of the GameCube.Iwata: There is no way someone could push an object bigger than them that’s most likely made out of stone.
Miyamoto: And you know, it’s not like it’s comedic, he has a serious look on his face of what he is doing. But that’s fun when you actually play it. It’s because there’s some sense of experience. You feel it.
Originally posted by The ScenarioHe is just describing a sense of realism as he wants the gamers to experience them. this actually strengthens my argument.
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=9034836
@Scenario: Have you got him to back up his claims or show any evidence yet?
Originally posted by quanchi112
I didn't say I am right 100 percent of the time I said I was right in this thread 100 percent. You don't even understand what it is I am saying it would appear.
Originally posted by quanchi112
If someone has Superman strength they can easily with strain the horse without being flipped off her unlike Link who is as strong as he needs to be and someone super strong would easily with strain this horse.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Even by earth rules he needed to alter his weight so he isn't strong enough without the boots to stop the goron making the feat not count.
Originally posted by quanchi112
They weren't even close in strength with the ease in which the enemy wielded it to Link's two hands and struggle to use this weapon. Typical weak argument imo and pretty much everyone in zelda becomes super freaks for your lack of argument for it to stick which it still doesn't.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I grasp what the developers were getting at you didn't and hanging around a battle vs. and micro analyzing feats it's no wonder why.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I've given examples of how he is portrayed and destroyed his supposed strength feats yet you claim I bring no evidence. Poppycosh.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, the game makes it clear Link isn't strong enough on his own without the boots. Game backs me up 100 percent.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It affects Link who is wearing the armor. Wow.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, he didn't he exaggerated and made no sense with his claims. I don't buy it and neither should you.
Originally posted by quanchi112
These numbers are just another example of fans attaching speculative numbers here just like the spiderman example. You can't prove it and like I said he's as strong as he needs to be in this game.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I've already been over this if Link was strong enough to best a goron on his own he wouldn't need the boots but since he does he isn't strong enough to do anything to a goron without the added weight the boots give him.
Originally posted by BloodRainRarely don't take everything I say so literally.
@Scenario: Have you got him to back up his claims or show any evidence yet?Saw you before saying that you're never wrong so... yeah.
Again all he had to do was wait for her to calm down.
By Earth rules it doesnt matter how strong you are you need to be heavy enough to stop something much heaver then you advancing towards you. And even if we were to agree with your view on the boots it wouldnt explain how he can lift them off the ground. Maybe what you say can cover stopping on but not lifting one off the ground.
Nah just basic power scaling, if one guys shows that hes stronger then another then he's stronger. And unless you have a way to quantify his strength this argument wont get anywhere.
Scenario just posted God Word proof and you say he's wrong. Thats not understanding anything. Its still just your opinion that is << what the game states.
No youve given your opinion on what you think about a scene. You need [b]evidence
to back up your claims. And no evidence does not mean state your opinion it means get something official and post it here. Eg To prove Link strong this side has posted clips, explained through physics, quoted the developer and even went out to prove the Iron Boots are not the reason for the lift through vids and game descriptions. On the other side all youve done is state what you think and the only evidence is again, what you think. See the problem here? Get some evidence in the form of vids, descriptions, quotes and how it works irl.Boots dont cover lifting them off the ground, chandelier, ice mass, metal cage, developers word. Go give some proof.
Still not his magic now is it?
I think its better to agree with the logical one who posts evidence. Opinions<<facts.
Calcs put it at 50~tons, but even with a simple glance its undeniable that its heavier then 500 kg/peak human.
Calcs put it at hundreds of tons, and again you can tell by just looking at it that its well over 500kg.
^Even wrote after the calcs for your math hating sake. Ignore the numbers for all I care but you can't deny that each are above peak strength and you cant even argue against it as he's not wearing any boots.
This is the same as the Ice Mass. Two instances that show super strength [makes it consistent] that you have no idea how to counter as he has no enhancements.Ok Im going to say it again just so you can understand. Post proof via evidence to support your claims. Did you miss the 'prove' part last time? Your word is not enough. Youve been here long enough, should know how to prove things by now. [/B]
Yes, if you play the game right but he can easily be launched off and you yourself agree his strength was sub par here.
It doesn't matter he isn't strong enough on his own to do any of this without the gear Bo made his perfectly clear.
We can see in varying degrees how much stronger he is than Link is by how they wield the same weapon. It isn't even close.
No, scenario misinterpreted what the creator stated that isn't the same thing.
You are ignoring the game itself then as it makes it clear as day the boots are needed to contend with gorons whether it be Bo or Link neither are strong enough without them.
Inconsistencies and as I said previously this game only gives a hint of realism which I have always stated. In games things don't have to add up and mesh with reality as I have always claimed watch Link wield the ball and chain on his own and you get a great indicator of how strong he actually is.
It affects magic which is what powers up the armor.
He wasn't being logical at all and has since quit the debate. He gave up whereas I won't.
These are all speculative numbers and the ball and chain weighs a lot less and we see how much of a struggle he is while wielding it.
I already have explained my case you can continue to be wrong it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Rarely don't take everything I say so literally.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, if you play the game right but he can easily be launched off and you yourself agree his strength was sub par here.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It doesn't matter he isn't strong enough on his own to do any of this without the gear Bo made his perfectly clear.
Originally posted by quanchi112
We can see in varying degrees how much stronger he is than Link is by how they wield the same weapon. It isn't even close.
Originally posted by quanchi112
No, scenario misinterpreted what the creator stated that isn't the same thing.
Originally posted by quanchi112
You are ignoring the game itself then as it makes it clear as day the boots are needed to contend with gorons whether it be Bo or Link neither are strong enough without them.
^Gameplay, description, character word and word of god all saying the same thing.
Originally posted by quanchi112
Inconsistencies and as I said previously this game only gives a hint of realism which I have always stated. In games things don't have to add up and mesh with reality as I have always claimed watch Link wield the ball and chain on his own and you get a great indicator of how strong he actually is.
Originally posted by quanchi112
It affects magic which is what powers up the armor.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He wasn't being logical at all and has since quit the debate. He gave up whereas I won't.
Originally posted by quanchi112
These are all speculative numbers and the ball and chain weighs a lot less and we see how much of a struggle he is while wielding it.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I already have explained my case you can continue to be wrong it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
Originally posted by BloodRainWell it was just but I do like to have fun.
Seemed like a standard egotistical thing to say.Thats like how if you play God of War wrong Kratos wouldn't be able to do any feats. These kind of events we go by what happens if the player succeeds unless there a specific/important even formed from a loss. In this situation Link succeeds.
Once more for the people in the back row. Boots, weight blah blah blah, nothing besides super strength can explain him not just stopping but [b]lifting
a Goron. Only point to the Boots.. how they're portrayed if you will are to ''become so heavy, not even a Goron will be able to move you'' <-in game quote. Nothing about aiding you to lift them only the fact of what they do: stop the Goron's from flicking your light body aside.Revisited the boss fight to remember how he used it. It was interesting that he wields it in the same manner that Link does. Btw you do know that for this to support your claim youll have to first find a set strength level of Darkhammer to say that Link's under it, right?
-sigh- The clip tell us that he wants the game to feel realistic and that even if youre pushing large blocks of stone, that he himself says is unrealistic by human standards [aka no human can do it] he allows it as its enjoyable. Miyamoto agrees that Link can push large blocks of stone.
In-game description- Boots make you heavy enough that Goron's cant flick you out. = Only there to make you heavy.
Bo- ''Strong as you are, though, you can't hope to beat the Goron's with power alone.'' = Bo states that Link is strong enough to contend with Gorons but isnt heavy enough.
Miyamoto- '' You need a sense that you are actually doing these actions, that you are in that world. So in that sense pushing a huge block is actually kind of absurd.(...)But that’s fun when you actually play it. It’s because there’s some sense of experience. You feel it.'' = Says Link does it even if its absurd.
Gameplay- Link lifts Goron's off the ground. = Need upper body strength to lift them up.^Gameplay, description, character word and word of god all saying the same thing.
Try answering the first example. Lifting off the ground. Boots would only allow him to stop the momentum, not allow him to suddenly gain upper body strength. Oh right right, inconsistency even if it occurs more then 4 different times in the game. I hope you're aware that is something happens even twice its becomes consistent.
And now were back to me asking you to prove that the spell can effect an inanimate generating object. Eg give evidence from the Dragon Age verse.
''...agree with the logical one who posts evidence. Opinions<<facts.'' One of you knows how to support claims with evidence, the other does not. You couldnt have a real life debate without supplying evidence. Oh and, good for you? But no one cares who is or isn't quitting atm.
Do I have to speak slower for you to get it because Im not sure how Id do that with text. Ignore the numbers for all I care but you can't deny that each are above peak strength and you cant even argue against it as he's not wearing any boots. Get it memorized because you missed the whole point. Ignore the numbers youre so afraid of. Both metal objects are still heavier then peak human strength. As I said before added to the Ice mass and lifting Goron's that's 4 instances.
Oh wow. Again, proof, evidence, support claims. C'mon you're a seasoned debater, these things should be the basics for you. Unless you think that your word is above everything start posting evidence because its been 12 pages and youve failed to supply any. This dance wont change until you do. [/B]
Yes, but he can succeed with getting knocked off as well so how he succeeds isn't canon it depends on gameplay and the skill of the player proving his strength isn't beyond the horse.
We are repeating ourselves here but without the boots you can't lift one. Link isn't strong enough on his own he needs gear to do so.
It's all speculative either way that guy wasn't super strong he was just stronger than link.
Yes, as he can do so but like I said earlier this game laughs in the face of realism and him getting shot out of cannons and surviving is similar to him moving stones of slab this doesn't imply he's super strong or can drop thousands of feet irl just in this fantasy realm.
Yes, but he still needs the boots to alter his weight so on his own he isn't strong enough without the weight to make this possible.
It affects the person wielding it which is Link.
Just don't bring him up anymore. Thanks.
Yes, because most characters in fantasy games do things real people aren't capable of with jumping alone but these feats don't mean he's superstrong in his own verse which was my point from the very get go.
I've already explained my opinion in this thread and restated it. We differ as opposed to our interpretations of the evidence.
are you kidding me? just because he needs the boots to stop him doesn't mean he needs them to lift the goron Link has plenty of Super Strength feats ok seriously its gotten rediculous stop throwing your opinion around and back it up with evidence we showed 4-5 different videos of Link showing off Super Strength and you go around in circles saying he needs weight on his feet to lift something do you know how stupid that sounds?
Originally posted by General KalieroThis is my opinion based on the gameplay which it has always been. My opinion based on the what occurs in the games has been stated numerous times which specific examples.
Quan, post proof of your claims or I will consider you to be trolling. This has gone on long enough.
I gave an interview from a comic writer further going into detail about the inconsistencies with how a character is portrayed and feat based arguments. I stated Link is strong enough with the boots equipped to deal with characters much bigger and with more mass then himself which is exactly how the game portrays him. So in order for Link to be strong enough to hold his ground against someone who massively outweighs him he needs the weight the boots give him to hold his ground.
Basically this has been a disagreement *** for tat throughout the entire game whereas both sides are bickering from in game instance to in game instance.
I mean what exactly do you want me to post if we disagree with an interpretation of a scene or how the character is portrayed ? I'd like to hear want you want from me if our opinions simply differ ? I am not saying certain things didn't happen or making things up so please tell me what it is you want.
Problems.
1. Comic writer. Not game developer.
2. Opinion. Not fact.
3. Lies. You have not stated that Link needs to wear his boots to hold his ground. What you have said is that Link's boots give him strength, which I believe you may have finally accepted is stupid.
4. Stupid. This argument says that Link is required to obey physics while characters that do not in their games, do not have to.
5. Stroke. I may have had one.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice1. It centers around areas of fiction and completely addresses the topic. I asked him this myself and he answered. Gimme a video game creator's website and I will ask him.
Problems.1. Comic writer. Not game developer.
2. Opinion. Not fact.
3. Lies. You have not stated that Link needs to wear his boots to hold his ground. What you have said is that Link's boots give him strength, which I believe you may have finally accepted is stupid.
4. Stupid. This argument says that Link is required to obey physics while characters that do not in their games, do not have to.
5. Stroke. I may have had one.
2. I never said my opinion was fact.
3.You misunderstood the boots give him the weight needed for the feat. In the game it's quite clear as Bo describes you need the boots. This is a game fact and of course now I am being asked to prove this even though anyone who knows having played the game knows this to be true. What we dispute about is the feat itself so this is all opinion centered debate not a factual debate more or less.
4.More or less most characters do obey physics but more or less to things don't add up and many scenes are just added in to create a sense of awe, ie. fighting a bigger than life opponent, surviving being shot out of a cannon regardless of what would occur irl if you get shot out of a cannon so while physics do play a part to a certain degree in some of these feats it's not 100 percent accurate to everything these fantasy games have in them imo.
5. This is just fantasy debate I have no idea why anyone gets this riled up simply because someone disagrees with you.
Originally posted by quanchi112
1. It centers around areas of fiction and completely addresses the topic. I asked him this myself and he answered. Gimme a video game creator's website and I will ask him.2. I never said my opinion was fact.
3.You misunderstood the boots give him the weight needed for the feat. In the game it's quite clear as Bo describes you need the boots. This is a game fact and of course now I am being asked to prove this even though anyone who knows having played the game knows this to be true.
4.More or less most characters do obey physics but more or less to things don't add up and many scenes are just added in to create a sense of awe, ie. fighting a bigger than life opponent, surviving being shot out of a cannon regardless of what would occur irl if you get shot out of a cannon so while physics do play a part to a certain degree in some of these feats it's not 100 percent accurate to everything these fantasy games have in them imo.
5. This is just fantasy debate I have no idea why anyone gets this riled up simply because someone disagrees with you.
1. I'd agree Games and Comics have similarities, but I would also say that games can be far more consistent depending on the titles. Mostly because comics go through many different writers.
2. Irrelevant. You cannot prove something with an opinion. For example, I may say that Justin Bieber is a prick. Unfortunately, my opinion does not prove this. I am forced to rely on his songs and other public appearances.
3. I and many others did not misunderstand for weeks. Your intended claim was made quite clear. It may be different now, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that then, you were wrong.
4. How does that address what I said?
5. Was more of a joke for the sake of making my post funny to me. It's something I do, and may or may not be funny to others.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice1. I will agree it gets a lot more complicated in terms of continuity because of the various writers but you understand my point I hope.
1. I'd agree Games and Comics have similarities, but I would also say that games can be far more consistent depending on the titles. Mostly because comics go through many different writers.2. Irrelevant. You cannot prove something with an opinion. For example, I may say that Justin Bieber is a prick. Unfortunately, my opinion does not prove this. I am forced to rely on his songs and other public appearances.
3. I and many others did not misunderstand for weeks. Your intended claim was made quite clear. It may be different now, sure, but it doesn't change the fact that then, you were wrong.
4. How does that address what I said?
5. Was more of a joke for the sake of making my post funny to me. It's something I do, and may or may not be funny to others.
2.My opinion is centered around my interpretation of a game fact aka the boots are needed to give Link the weight needed. Now while I say Mother can hurt him I back this up by any single minor enemy in zelda hurting him every time they attack him. Now the varying degrees in which the Mother can inflict damage is purely subjective which muddies the waters of any debate and bias begins to creep in.
3.My claim was always the boots were required which they always were for weight purposes.
4.The game is inconsistent in Link's feats to any simple standard portrayal. One minute he gets blasted out of a cannon and doesn't get even scratched up whereas if he gets hit by a piranha plant he takes damage. These things don't add up and make sense like everything does in reality is my point it's inconsistent it's fantasy it doesn't have to all make sense.
5. Humor on the internet maybe I will try this out one day.