Mother vs. Link (TP)

Started by BloodRain15 pages
BloodRain Knight of Retribution

Originally posted by quanchi112
Correct, but in the same vein we cannot say Kratos cannot be hurt by minor foe.

The point of what I said vs that from that example we cant say Kratos can be overpowered by mortal level creatures. Trust me if that were possible Id of run that example dry.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I don't see it mattering if he's stronger or not than a grey warden I don't see it being that much more that he couldn't go *** for tat against Link like every enemy knight does in the game. I also see him being nowhere near as versatile and having weaker armor than most but that's besides the point the Mother is powerful enough to really hurt him just like any major boss who isn't as powerful as the damage Mother can inflict to multiple opponents at a time.

Go sensor-bot go~
If he's stronger then a grey warden then he can easily replicate the face stabbing/beating Mother. The only reason the knights and soldiers stand a chance is that Link wont kill an innocent person. [Even if they were attacking they weren't evil] You dont need armour if you dont get hit. Link can perform swift and long backflips and even somersault 3m/twice his height into the air like when he finishes Dorf. [World record high jump is 2.5m with a run-up, Link did it from a standing point] That and his shield. How strong is Mother?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Like most enemies their time in the sun is brief but we do know he's a lot stronger than Link and Link still wins due to skill. Being stronger than someone helps but even in this case it isn't the determining factor just like it wouldn't be in this matchup or against the grey wardens.

Cept that we know Link is super strong, we know Darkhammer is stronger and we know the grey humans are peak human at best.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, but in that universe the rules are slightly different and more fantastical. His feats still stand but in his verse you can survive being shot out of a cannon or ride chickens. Not the same effect in reality.

Being shot out of a cannon is just good durability [cant remember the scene] and the Cucco's? Just something that happens there. But as the feats stand, Link is superhuman.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Link is strong yes, but against the gorons he needs the weight so without the weight he's useless against a bigger foe. Most of these other feats are him lifting inanimate objects and isn't the same as taking someone on who is bigger and actively resisting him which he needs the boots for.

Only if said bigger foe tries to push him away. In a real fight, [not strength contest or stopping them charging] even a fight against Goron's Link only uses his strength to attack without boots. The inanimate objects are only there to show us that Link's strong, and with that strength can do more then what the grey wardens can.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The Mother loses to a group of fighters. She takes on 4 and you have a whole slew of abilities and talents Link doesn't along with ancient tevinter weapons who greatly aid you.

Is there a canon match against her because Ive seen her get beat by 2. The only things needed to best Mother is: strength to kill her faster, speed/agility to avoid tentacles. Link has both above these warriors. And if by chance its not working he can step back and fire bomb-arrows at her. Keeping in mind that the bombs have the force to destroy hundreds of tons of rock/rocks several times the size of Link, like the size of two cars.

Originally posted by quanchi112
it isn't just humans against her and these aren't normal regular joe schmoes they are talented and in a group and all of these abilities when worked together are quite formidable. Can Link best this part of four ?

Lets say for instance the team is 2 attackers, a mage and a rang/archer. [no critique, not got the game] He has arrows that pack more force then any arrows in Dragon Age, I imagine, so thats the Archer done. Mage is only there to stop her attacking/healing/buffing, [??] Link has potions, doesnt need buffs and has the skill to avoid her attacks, thats the mage done too. Now I'm gonna assume that one attacker has athlete strength and is agile and the other has peak human strength with armour. First off lets lowball and say Link can lift only 5 tons. That means the peak human will have to strike 10 times where Link does one. [5 tons is 10x peak human] Add to that that Link is more agile then a peak [^flip over twice from a standing point] and is a master swordsman, compared to the wardens who Im assuming are not, has both attackers being covered as well.
Range, no need for a mage and is well above both attackers combined. He can handle it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You can't ignore gameplay mechanics nor can you ignore the lessons from the hero showing you how important skill is.

Not ignore but not take it 100% to heart. A character can be shown to flip the Titanic over their shoulder but in the game some mook blocks his attack by holding up a shield. The gameplay of LoZ is based around skill as its not some action hack&slash, but it says nothing for the strength of the character only that he's skilled.

The Scenario Greater Sci-Fi combatant
Originally posted by BloodRain
Being shot out of a cannon is just good durability [cant remember the scene] and the Cucco's? Just something that happens there. But as the feats stand, Link is superhuman.

YouTube video

4:40

BloodRain Knight of Retribution

Gracias hombre. Cant seem to hold on to knowledge for long ^^;

Is there anything else to cover besides the strength argument?

The Scenario Greater Sci-Fi combatant
Originally posted by quanchi112
I call them piranha plants you know what I mean. This is all opinion based and saying opinions don't matter or don't factor into an intellectual debate that's ludicrous and here's why.

You're calling them wrong, then. And opinions really don't matter, though you seem to be a little confused by the definition of opinion. An opinion is whether or not you like a game. An opinion is not whether a given character is strong.


You claim Midna dies without any solid proof. It's an interpretation either way what happened to her before we see her again in the ending just as it's opinion based on what Zant was doing right before Dorf died.

First of all, I did offer proof, and I gave the reasoning that explained my stance. I reached a logical conclusion based on evidence gathered and put it together using logic. That is not an opinion. Nor is an interpretation an opinion if you use evidence and logic to explain yourself. I could attempt to explain the Zant thing if you wish.


My entire debate has been based on simple gameplay aspects and abilities. The Mother and her abilities and what she can withstand from four party members and the tevinter weapons imo is superior to Link's abilities. Link's strong and skilled enough to get through his entire game but at no point in the game is he portrayed as too strong for other characters to fight back against or counter.

Here's the thing: every time you say "imo" it expresses that you are only stating your opinion, and opinions are disregarded on KMC. You are saying opinion, but you're really describing a conclusion. What you are really failing to do is back up that conclusion with evidence. You say Mother has abilities and can withstand things, but you fail to explain why this is impressive. What are Mother's abilities? What has she withstood that is impressive? What makes tevinter weapons so much better, and how much better are they? You failing to back these things up with evidence leaves you in a difficult position, as you cannot say how Mother wins, only that you think she does. And saying that you think she does is simply not enough.


That's why I have always seen this super strength argument as ridiculous because in his own game he doesn't blow through enemies due to being too strong to be denied. He needs to learn the appropriate skills, acquire the appropriate gear, etc. to progress throughout the game.

But that's a mistake, as by going only by the gameplay, you're ignoring canon abilities. There are plenty of things like that in video games. Why can't Kratos break down walls? Why can't Raziel cut through stone? I mean, if the Tank from Left4Dead can break down walls or rip concrete blocks from the street, doesn't that mean it's stronger than both Kratos and Raziel? Not even close. It's not like Kratos does a lot of blowing through enemies, either.


When he fights someone much bigger and strong you have the boots to counter their weight advantage or when you fight a giant ice mass you have the ball and chain to deal with that.

But there are so many others that don't. Like Morpheel, the giant snake thing. Link just grabs it with the clawshot and stabs until it dies. Or Diababa, the giant plant first boss. After Link puts the bomb in its mouth, it comes close enough to stab until it it dies. Argarok, the dragon, is just like Morpheel in that once Link can grab its back he can just keep stabbing. And still with the ice mass, it's Link's strength that throws her, the force was just transfered through the ball and chain.


If Link was portrayed in the game as being unblockable and ripping heads off and just crushing his opponents due to strength like someone like Kratos I'd say yeah this guy is really, really strong in his own game but to me he's never been that way in his own game.

But again, when you say things like "to me," it's just your view, not fact. Link can quite easily just power through enemies with the Mortal Draw, and a Spin Attack can throw most enemies off their feet or kill them instantly. Hell, Link can hit the ground so hard with his sword that it makes a shockwave. Link is quite strong.