Originally posted by Burning thought
Thats not a "gameplay mechanic", thats an ability that was used in gameplay.
An ability used in gameplay. Sounds like hitting back Ganon's lightning.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I did apply them to my characters, thet just dont happen to distort physics by any major scope.
No, you clearly did not. Mostly because they do distort physics, just as much as, if not more than anything Link does.
Originally posted by Burning thought
No, it breaks physics in the same way it takes the protagonist who needs shields for protection and weapons and how needs to figuire out countless puzzles rather than digging through them with his hands and makes them do things their durability/strength does not allow due to previous events. its not all about upward force, the opposite/equel action still counts and Link would be crushed into bone, or fall flat if he was proven to be durable.
Sounds like non-canon gameplay you're using. 🙄
But good job. This argument has been made by you and others before, and just as easily, is defeated. The game is far too easy when Link's true powers are available in gameplay. It's like that in countless games. God of War, Devil May Cry, even LoK.
Equal and opposite reaction, you say? Interesting, we've used that very same argument to prove durability in the past. Yet you insisted it was nonsense. What changed? Hmm...
Anyway. Durability on that level is not out of the question for Link. And another thing, you've before insisted that Legend of Zelda does not use realistic physics. What changed your opinion there? Could it possibly be that...everything you say changes only to counter the point at hand, thus causing you to contradict yourself over and over again?
Why is it that the equal and opposite reaction rule has to prove that Link's actions defy physics, as opposed to proving his durability?
OF COURSE, WE'RE ALL FORGETTING WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT HERE. FEATS DON'T HAVE TO BE LOGICAL IN THE FIRST PLACE! AHAHAHAHA!
Originally posted by Burning thought
It does not take away from the rock no, thats why the logical part where physics can to some degree be used on (Link with effort lifitng it slowly) makes sense, at a low joule count in the thousands.
Whoa, I just got you to agree that Link's pillar isn't toonforce.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Its not irrelevant, its important if he needs objects.
Really? So being aided takes away from your super poweredness. Sounds like Kain is screwed, as well as Raziel.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Not true, because canonically their above human, superhuman based on powers. They have been given in the actual fiction the ability of super strength, like how the Hulk within the basis of his universe has the strength to do the ridiculous feats he does. Link is not the hulk, nor is he a supernatural vampire with enhanced strength or durability.
It still defies physics. Something of their mass cannot produce that much force without it being so. That is what defines a superpower.
Kain and Raziel have been given powers, so they can't defy physics. Good to know. This rule applies to Link as well, since we're all being fair here. His powers of super strength therefore erase him from the list of toonforce users.
It's funny you mention that though. Is it ever stated in LoK that Kain's vampireness gives him his powers?
But I do want to address the infamous pillar. So here's what I got;
On side of the hexagon is 270cm if Link is 190cm [gave him 7+ cm in height] making the hex area 189,399.76cm2*1100cm [half of the pillar is 2.75 Links height then given 55cm more for the points at the end]
= 208339736cm3*2.6
= 541683313.6g or 600 tons
Last time I put the height up to 1200. Using 183cm for Link's height would make it just over 500 tons.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
An ability used in gameplay. Sounds like hitting back Ganon's lightning.No, you clearly did not. Mostly because they do distort physics, just as much as, if not more than anything Link does.
Sounds like non-canon gameplay you're using. 🙄
But good job. This argument has been made by you and others before, and just as easily, is defeated. The game is far too easy when Link's true powers are available in gameplay. It's like that in countless games. God of War, Devil May Cry, even LoK.
Equal and opposite reaction, you say? Interesting, we've used that very same argument to prove durability in the past. Yet you insisted it was nonsense. What changed? Hmm...
Anyway. Durability on that level is not out of the question for Link. And another thing, you've before insisted that Legend of Zelda does not use realistic physics. What changed your opinion there? Could it possibly be that...everything you say changes only to counter the point at hand, thus causing you to contradict yourself over and over again?
Why is it that the equal and opposite reaction rule has to prove that Link's actions defy physics, as opposed to proving his durability?
OF COURSE, WE'RE ALL FORGETTING WHAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT HERE. FEATS DON'T HAVE TO BE LOGICAL IN THE FIRST PLACE! AHAHAHAHA!
Whoa, I just got you to agree that Link's pillar isn't toonforce.
Really? So being aided takes away from your super poweredness. Sounds like Kain is screwed, as well as Raziel.
It still defies physics. Something of their mass cannot produce that much force without it being so. That is what defines a superpower.
Kain and Raziel have been given powers, so they can't defy physics. Good to know. This rule applies to Link as well, since we're all being fair here. His powers of super strength therefore erase him from the list of toonforce users.
It's funny you mention that though. Is it ever stated in LoK that Kain's vampireness gives him his powers?
Because Link does hit back Ganons slow energy balls, he has to and its scripted, that does not make it as fast as a natural thunderbolt.
Ah you see this is where your confusing the rule, your claiming they do distort physics as much as Link does, this is where you prove it instead of trying to claim my "rule" does not work.
Does it really? Link doing puzzles throughout all the series and not using this apprent strength for anything more yet despite this, the developers giving him more items than one can shake a stick at is all canon. Thats what actually happens. You cant skip puzzles that almost entirely from what I have seen "should" be passable without said items.
GoW and DMC and as shown LoK to a lesser extent than the last 2, make the strength, powers and abilities of said characters obvious throughout the whole games, not just one instance or two.
Nobody agrees with that nonsense iirc, only you and Screampaste. Not because the opposite/equel reaction does not work here but because the event concerning the pillar is toonforce, and the character is not portrayed as such. Links never, unlike Kain, Kratos etc resisted incredible wounds.
Yes it is, thats why your coments make no sense. It does not change, theres just more factors involved than you seem to be able to understand, you belive theres only one set of possible answers. I have many answers, many of them disproven your claims.
I dont think Links pillar is, I think the throwing of said pillar is more so. Then again, as I said before his little lightweight body holding it like he does is toonforce.
Links not been given superpowers though, hes been given an item that only increases his strength, not gives him incredible mass. So this is where your lack of logic trips you up 🙁 and you need more than superstrength to balance an object as heavy as the pillar when your as light as Link and as small.
Blood omen 2, Umah. Although now your trying to play a silly bugger. Your not going to impress me with that.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Because Link does hit back Ganons slow energy balls, he has to and its scripted, that does not make it as fast as a natural thunderbolt.
See ScreamPaste's posts.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Ah you see this is where your confusing the rule, your claiming they do distort physics as much as Link does, this is where you prove it instead of trying to claim my "rule" does not work.
I never claimed it doesn't work. I said it does work, actually. And I used the work it does to make Kain and Raziel into users of toonforce.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Does it really? Link doing puzzles throughout all the series and not using this apprent strength for anything more yet despite this, the developers giving him more items than one can shake a stick at is all canon. Thats what actually happens. You cant skip puzzles that almost entirely from what I have seen "should" be passable without said items.
Yes.
Yeah. It is. Similar to how Kain and Raziel, Kratos, Dante, Mercer, and even Hulk in his video games follow the same nonsensical rule.
Originally posted by Burning thought
GoW and DMC and as shown LoK to a lesser extent than the last 2, make the strength, powers and abilities of said characters obvious throughout the whole games, not just one instance or two.
Lol, not a chance. In GoW1, Kratos rips around the head of the hydra. And yet he cannot force his way through a door with chains on it. Sound familiar? The same happens with Dante and Kain. Not to a lesser extent by any means. All it is is that the strength cannot be used because it would make the game way too easy.
It isn't just one instance either. Link progresses in strength. Even then, what difference does only one instance make? He's still done the action, proving he can do it. Now you're just scrambling and looking for worthless nonsense to cling to.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Nobody agrees with that nonsense iirc, only you and Screampaste. Not because the opposite/equel reaction does not work here but because the event concerning the pillar is toonforce, and the character is not portrayed as such. Links never, unlike Kain, Kratos etc resisted incredible wounds.
Sounds like an appeal to popularity fallacy.
Toonforce based on what? Disobeying physics in the same way every other character with super strength in fiction disobeys physics? Or perhaps defying some daft form of your logic? Wait, that's the one that doesn't matter, because feats don't have to make sense. All that you're left with to claim toonforce is the fact that you want it to be toonforce.
AHAHA! You just used Quan-Tum fizziks! So let's apply some real logic to that. What does a character have to do in order to be "portrayed" as someone with super strength? I mean, clearly lifting heavy objects and producing and taking more force than normal humanly possible isn't good enough for that.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Yes it is, thats why your coments make no sense. It does not change, theres just more factors involved than you seem to be able to understand, you belive theres only one set of possible answers. I have many answers, many of them disproven your claims.
Lol, based on what is that level of durability out of the question? What freaking more does he have to do? He can take explosions to the face and survive leaps off death mountain, walk around in active volcanoes and makes a habit out of knocking shit out of trees with his face.
The rest of that kind of took the words right out of my mouth. Give those back, they belong to me.
There is only one correct answer. And you do not have it.
Originally posted by Burning thought
I dont think Links pillar is, I think the throwing of said pillar is more so. Then again, as I said before his little lightweight body holding it like he does is toonforce.
Ahaha. See the above reply. "Based on what is it toonforce?"
Why are you even replying to this? You already agreed it wasn't toonforce.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Links not been given superpowers though, hes been given an item that only increases his strength, not gives him incredible mass. So this is where your lack of logic trips you up 🙁 and you need more than superstrength to balance an object as heavy as the pillar when your as light as Link and as small.
Clearly, he has superpowers. I bet monkeys can learn to type before you finally understand all of this.
I see you're agreeing with me. Link would realistically require more mass in order to produce that much force. So while it does defy physics in that regard, it's no different than what Kain and Raziel can supposedly do.
Ah, and here's the pointless details for the sake of realism argument again. This one also applies to LoK. Kain and Raziel do not trip, screw up any spells, ever. Toonforce because pointless details for the sake of realism are not present.
I bet Link is taller than Kain and Raziel.
Originally posted by Burning thought
Blood omen 2, Umah. Although now your trying to play a silly bugger. Your not going to impress me with that.
Lmfao, no, I'm not. And I don't need to impress you.
Kain and Raziel are aided by vampireness. So that takes away from their powers, yes? They've been given increased strength, not increased mass. TOONFORCE!
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
See ScreamPaste's posts.I never claimed it doesn't work. I said it does work, actually. And I used the work it does to make Kain and Raziel into users of toonforce.
Yes.
Yeah. It is. Similar to how Kain and Raziel, Kratos, Dante, Mercer, and even Hulk in his video games follow the same nonsensical rule.
Lol, not a chance. In GoW1, Kratos rips around the head of the hydra. And yet he cannot force his way through a door with chains on it. Sound familiar? The same happens with Dante and Kain. Not to a lesser extent by any means. All it is is that the strength cannot be used because it would make the game way too easy.
It isn't just one instance either. Link progresses in strength. Even then, what difference does only one instance make? He's still done the action, proving he can do it. Now you're just scrambling and looking for worthless nonsense to cling to.
Sounds like an appeal to popularity fallacy.
Toonforce based on what? Disobeying physics in the same way every other character with super strength in fiction disobeys physics? Or perhaps defying some daft form of your logic? Wait, that's the one that doesn't matter, because feats don't have to make sense. All that you're left with to claim toonforce is the fact that you want it to be toonforce.
AHAHA! You just used Quan-Tum fizziks! So let's apply some real logic to that. What does a character have to do in order to be "portrayed" as someone with super strength? I mean, clearly lifting heavy objects and producing and taking more force than normal humanly possible isn't good enough for that.
Lol, based on what is that level of durability out of the question? What freaking more does he have to do? He can take explosions to the face and survive leaps off death mountain, walk around in active volcanoes and makes a habit out of knocking shit out of trees with his face.
The rest of that kind of took the words right out of my mouth. Give those back, they belong to me.
There is only one correct answer. And you do not have it.
Ahaha. See the above reply. "Based on what is it toonforce?"
Why are you even replying to this? You already agreed it wasn't toonforce.
Clearly, he has superpowers. I bet monkeys can learn to type before you finally understand all of this.
I see you're agreeing with me. Link would realistically require more mass in order to produce that much force. So while it does defy physics in that regard, it's no different than what Kain and Raziel can supposedly do.
Ah, and here's the pointless details for the sake of realism argument again. This one also applies to LoK. Kain and Raziel do not trip, screw up any spells, ever. Toonforce because pointless details for the sake of realism are not present.
I bet Link is taller than Kain and Raziel.
Lmfao, no, I'm not. And I don't need to impress you.
Kain and Raziel are aided by vampireness. So that takes away from their powers, yes? They've been given increased strength, not increased mass. TOONFORCE!
I have, its filled with as many assumptions and unproven statements as yours. A lot of people have seen your posts concerning that thunderbolt and laughed its lack of evidence away.
But you cant, because youve yet to show an instance of toonforce in effect. They dont break physics, they are given powers to allow them to work with the physics.
What rule? All I hear about LoZ is puzzles, having to work through them, the water puzzle for example, the weight puzzles. Kratos on the other hand consistently has large, animated scripted events where he beats Titans, Dante shows us him moving at ridiculous speeds, Kain and Raziel move heavy objects often in cutscenes and throughout or do other supernatural things. But Link? without any items, not sure theres any consistency at all in him being a 650 tonner.
Thats a gameplay mechanic iirc, the door thing I mean. What you fail to mension is that Kratos rips off hydra heads, stops Chronos' punch and his strength toys with the enormous Gods who can thrown down Titans (Gaia vs Poseidon). What the whole game? nah, Dante, Kain and Kratos consistently use supernatural powers, either strength, speed etc consistently, as do others of their race, e.g vampires, demons etc. Theres a lot of factors that go into the reasoning here that you dont seem to want to grasp.
You would know one, and it would be if that was my argument why your wrong. That was just a side statement of how your convincing me or indeed anyone else due to lack of evidence.
Clearly? based on what? because of one or two feats despite the consistency of his whole game? despite no other entity of his class (human basically with pointy ears) doing out of the ordinairy feats. never is it mensioned Link has any implication of being above human without any items. Personally I think hes above human (not to the extent you do) but still, the game does not indicate it. Wheras divine Kratos, Demonic Dante and vampire Kain all have connections to their powers within the fiction. The Elder God even says it for Raziel in a cutscene that hes stronger. When is this said for base Link? (no items)
Its different, why? because Raziel or Kain use only their strength on a heavy object, they dont actually take the weight on themselves for any duration like Link.
Yes you do if you want to apprently win anything for your "LoZ" side, otherwise your admitting to wasting your time 🙄
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
Mind sharing the rest of your numbers with me, and perhaps the location of the exact pillar you are using for reference?
I'll get to BT the next time I feel like cutting myself.
But Rain, you need a lot more. It looks to me like you're only doing surface area. You need the formula for volume. It requires the length of each face, the width of each face, the surface area of the top and bottom faces, and the total height. When you have the volume you simply multiply it by the density of Black Granite.
Edit: HOWEVER! I did notice something extremely interesting. It looks to me like that pillar does a little wobbling back and forth. Ahahahahahahaha.
Nobody whos argument is based on "toonforce" can defeat me. Certainly not when strength is not even that important to this matchup.
To get a real argument going ill ignore the strength parts of this thread, what about durability. Raziel iirc does not have much but what do Links supporters claim as durable for Link?
I'll do it...FOR JUSTICE!!
But, you seem relatively unbiased. Do me a favor, chime in between me and BT. Does it appear as though I'm twisting his points around into some bent form of my own logic? Or am I doing as I believe, and merely applying his own points to the characters he defends?
Edit: BT. Watch Rain's video. That pillar wobbles, like you required it to. So what new requirement will you come up with to make it so that it is toonforce?
Randomly claiming that Lok characters do unphysical acts, despite a ton of factual information declaring the differences how the comparison your trying to make is so vast does not work as an argument.
I dont require it to wobble, infact if it wobbles, that means that it was unsteady and that theres no way someone of Links size and weight could have held it. The guy would have fallen over, especially since it wobbles. If it was steady then it would have just been a factor to take into account, but now that it wobbles, its clear the thing can "move" and Links hold is not some gravity/vicelike grip.
Originally posted by MooCowofJustice
I'll get to BT the next time I feel like cutting myself.But Rain, you need a lot more. It looks to me like you're only doing surface area. You need the formula for volume. It requires the length of each face, the width of each face, the surface area of the top and bottom faces, and the total height. When you have the volume you simply multiply it by the density of Black Granite.
Edit: HOWEVER! I did notice something extremely interesting. It looks to me like that pillar does a little wobbling back and forth. Ahahahahahahaha.