Black Panther vs. Lady Shiva

Originally posted by Juk3n
you think cassy cain "MASTERED" not "trained in" or is "adept in" I mean "completley mastering" 130+ different styles of martial arts in under 20 years is NOT hyperbole? Thats 2 months per style if she trained back to back WITHOUT sleep time, school, other skill building activites?

And this is NOT hyperbole?

Originally posted by Lunacyde
Batman gives her a disk containing 127 forms of combat and tells her not to come see him till she has learned them all.

All she would really need is David Cain's own hybrid style, which we can assume she did master

I don't even think she could take T'Chaka let alone T'Challa.

Originally posted by Juk3n
you think cassy cain "MASTERED" not "trained in" or is "adept in" I mean "completley mastering" 130+ different styles of martial arts in under 20 years is NOT hyperbole? Thats 2 months per style if she trained back to back WITHOUT sleep time, school, other skill building activites?

And this is NOT hyperbole?

She learned stickfighting in 15 minutes once. And then learned Shadowthief's style of ninjutsu while fighting him in mid-fight ala Taskmaster and was able to defeat him, an expert in it, with his own style after seeing just around three moves of it.

And she was raised in a bunker doing nothing but training to fight with one of the top fighters in the world, then had Batman tutor her on every style he knows, so... yea.

Keep in mind also, when you learn a new style you aren't starting from square one. Your body already knows how to punch as a master, kick as a master, dodge as a master, etc..

Cassandra, having such intuitive knowledge of martial arts... and this probably applies to Shiva as well... will apply any move she knows at master level, and seeing a move is everything needed to learn that move, so simply seeing the move set is enough to know all the moves at master-level, and then apply them with all their understanding of martial arts, and bam, that's all that mastering a style is.

Picture a perfect martial-arts learning machine. Then put a batmask on it and call it 'Cassandra.' That's basically what David Cain designed her to be from birth (well, sans Batmask).

----

Interesting note on Lady Shiva, I believe she only uses one style. Each year she tosses away her old one and constructs a new one with the fighting knowledge she's accumulated over the year. So while she no doubt knows piles of styles and could mimic the greatest master of each with her eyes closed, she uses none but her own in actual fighting.

Originally posted by Q99
She learned stickfighting in 15 minutes once. And then learned Shadowthief's style of ninjutsu while fighting him in mid-fight ala Taskmaster and was able to defeat him, an expert in it, with his own style after seeing just around three moves of it.

Learning stick fighting and learning Shadowthief style is not the same as mastering the style for yourself.

Taskmaster is a great example that you brought up, he can mimik the style down to a tea on a level that's greater then most martial artist, but will never master it sans the experience for that said style.

Even the great Ironfist who some consider him the best above Daredevil or Shiva was once emulating Daredevil's fighting style but Daredevil still used it much better then him.

And for good reason.

Originally posted by Daredevil1

Taskmaster is a great example that you brought up, he can mimik the style down to a tea on a level that's greater then most martial artist, but will never master it sans the experience for that said style.

Even the great Ironfist who some consider him the best above Daredevil or Shiva was once emulating Daredevil's fighting style but Daredevil still used it much better then him.

And for good reason.

I'd definitely call when Taskmaster is fighting with DD's style "Master" level. He can fight masters on even terms with his copied styles.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
I don't even think she could take T'Chaka let alone T'Challa.

T'chaka may have better feats than T'challa.

Originally posted by Q99
I'd definitely call when Taskmaster is fighting with DD's style "Master" level. He can fight masters on even terms with his copied styles.

And yet DD is still better then him with his style because Tasky lacks the experience that DD has with that style. So what does that make DD "Grand Master". 🙂

Originally posted by Bentley
T'chaka may have better feats than T'challa.

Possibly for sure but doubtful.

Originally posted by Daredevil1
And yet DD is still better then him with his style because Tasky lacks the experience that DD has with that style. So what does that make DD "Grand Master". 🙂

Originally posted by 753
Every black belt is a master, there are still level differences among black belts. You're equating mastering with being the best fighter in the planet in a given style. DD being ebtter means nothing about TM's mastery.

Daredevil being better then TM should equate to DD being a higher belt then TM while not diminishing TM mastery. But of course DD will be better at his own style then TM.

Originally posted by 753
Every black belt is a master, there are still level differences among black belts. You're equating mastering with being the best fighter in the planet in a given style. DD being ebtter means nothing about TM's mastery.

Yes. "Master" is a general category with some variation. It pretty much just means you know a style inside and out and can perform with it at very high level.

Daredevil1
And yet DD is still better then him with his style because Tasky lacks the experience that DD has with that style. So what does that make DD "Grand Master".

No, it makes him a slightly better master.

And, honestly, in terms of knowing the moves and such, that is to say the style specifically, they'll be really close.

In the case of someone like Cass or Tasky, they'll apply their own existing deep experience with combat to a new style, and the results'll be very close. The deeper their experience with other styles, the easier it'll be to apply to one like DD's.

Marvel's power grid is all over the place
Taskmaster is labeled as a 7 because of his powers yet and has losses to Daredevil(a 5,not true at all) and Elektra(a 6,imo shes a 7).

You really shouldn't go by secondary canon to make statements about who wins a fight. Its easier to just say that Taskmaster knows a large amount of martial arts but its not enough to say he can beat someone hes lost too consistently.

It's worst area is probably the hand to hand section due to the focusing on the number of styles thing.

shiva got this