Mass Effect 3

Nemesis - You misunderstand my point. It's not that

Spoiler:
Shepard MUST die in order for the ending to be tonally sound (though in this case it makes since it is heavily foreshadowed). Hell, Shepard can already survive with enough war assets, so I have no problem with the prospect of him living.

Also, your simplification of the ending is cute, but like many of the arguments against it, it ignores the nuanced implications and ideas presented. The Reapers are not normal synthetic beings. They are a hybrid of organic and synthetic. Their innards are that of organic creatures, millions of them. This would allow them to reasonably not consider themselves synthetics.

As far as your complaint about the unification of the Geth disproving the entirety of the catalyst's claim that synthetics will inherently rise up and destroy organics doesn't hold water, logically speaking. One instance of Synthetics allying with organics for a matter of weeks isn't strong enough proof to deny that what the catalyst said may still be true.

There's no reason to think that the Geth won't later turn against organics again. In fact, the reveal that they have individualized their perspective means that they are likely to begin making decisions similar to that of a regular organic, including eventually aggression and the desire for power. Also the Geth aren't the only instance of synthetics rising against organics. It's a major theme in all the games, and it happens in various ways throughout the series - from the Project Overlord DLC, to Javik saying very sternly that in his time Synthetics attempted to overtake organics, to various rogue VI's and AI's that show up throughout the games. What the catalyst says in regards to Synthetics inherently going against their creators makes perfect sense upon inspection.

GK - The game's ending already is grimly victorious. You achieve victory no matter what, but no matter what their are massive consequences, as there should be. If they change the ending and keep the tone intact, and address other problems raised in the ending, then I'd be perfectly fine with that

The only reasonable complaints about the ending stem from various plot holes and obvious oversights made by the dev team - such as EDI somehow surviving the 'destroy' option, and the squad mates that you took with you during the final attack somehow being back on the Normandy after being with Shepard in Harbinger's blast, and so on. Everything else is knee jerking or people just being unhappy that the series is over, and taking their unhappiness out on the game that ends the series.

Originally posted by BackFire
Nemesis - You misunderstand my point. It's not that

Spoiler:
Shepard MUST die in order for the ending to be tonally sound (though in this case it makes since it is heavily foreshadowed). Hell, Shepard can already survive with enough war assets, so I have no problem with the prospect of him living.

My point is that putting in a purely happy ending after the fact, which many people DO want, as in, Shepard literally retiring on a beach somewhere with his friends, would be disastrously stupid and ignoring the tone of the game. With everything working out perfectly, without any repercussions to the actions of the game. It would be a hideous and dishonest ending. That's my point.

Also, your simplification of the ending is cute, but like many of the arguments against it, it ignores the nuanced implications and ideas presented. The Reapers are not normal synthetic beings. They are a hybrid of organic and synthetic. Their innards are that of organic creatures, millions of them. This would allow them to reasonably not consider themselves synthetics.

As far as your complaint about the unification of the Geth disproving the entirety of the catalyst's claim that synthetics will inherently rise up and destroy organics doesn't hold water, logically speaking. One instance of Synthetics allying with organics for a matter of weeks isn't strong enough proof to deny that what the catalyst said may still be true.

There's no reason to think that the Geth won't later turn against organics again. In fact, the reveal that they have individualized their perspective means that they are likely to begin making decisions similar to that of a regular organic, including eventually aggression and the desire for power. Also the Geth aren't the only instance of synthetics rising against organics. It's a major theme in all the games, and it happens in various ways throughout the series - from the Project Overlord DLC, to Javik saying very sternly that in his time Synthetics attempted to overtake organics, to various rogue VI's and AI's that show up throughout the games. What the catalyst says in regards to Synthetics inherently going against their creators makes perfect sense upon inspection.

GK - The game's ending already is grimly victorious. You achieve victory no matter what, but no matter what their are massive consequences, as there should be. If they change the ending and keep the tone intact, and address other problems raised in the ending, then I'd be perfectly fine with that

The only reasonable complaints about the ending stem from various plot holes and obvious oversights made by the dev team - such as EDI somehow surviving the 'destroy' option, and the squad mates that you took with you during the final attack somehow being back on the Normandy after being with Shepard in Harbinger's blast, and so on. Everything else is knee jerking or people just being unhappy that the series is over, and taking their unhappiness out on the game that ends the series.

To be fair, the Geth acted purely in self defense against their creators so they didn't rise up to turn against them. But yes it is possible it could one day happen since they are individuals now, although I do think they'll have peace for a long while atleast.

The funny thing is when Mass Effect 4 (or whatever it is) get's announced and released, people will flock in droves.

That's the other thing about all this, people act as if there won't be anymore games in the Universe that will answer questions that are right now left unanswered. There will be many many more games in the Mass Effect universe. And I'd bet money that there will be a Mass Effect 4, similar to Halo 4, starting a new trilogy.

Probably.

I think it would be kind of cool if they reference the first game but be like 50,000 years later.

That's what I imagine they'd do. Take place at least a few hundred years after the original series, so we can see how the decisions we made affected the universe.

I don't think I would want a prequel though unless they go way back with the Protheans.

But that would mean that it would be Reapers again and I personally think the OMG factor would be lost.

I don't imagine they'd do a prequel. They said sometime ago that people should keep their Mass Effect 3 data, because any other game they make that takes place in the universe will utilize that.

If that's the case, why doesn't the game save after it finishes.

Maybe waiting for DLC, or it won't look at the ending specifically but it remembers other decisions you made, like what happens when the Genophage and the Quarian/Geth struggle, and so on. Dunno.

Originally posted by BackFire
Nemesis - You misunderstand my point. It's not that

Spoiler:
Shepard MUST die in order for the ending to be tonally sound (though in this case it makes since it is heavily foreshadowed). Hell, Shepard can already survive with enough war assets, so I have no problem with the prospect of him living.

My point is that putting in a purely happy ending after the fact, which many people DO want, as in, Shepard literally retiring on a beach somewhere with his friends, would be disastrously stupid and ignoring the tone of the game. With everything working out perfectly, without any repercussions to the actions of the game. It would be a hideous and dishonest ending. That's my point.

Do you really think I expected everyone in Mass Effect to just hold hands, sing songs by the campfire, and throw a parade the next day after the Reaper threat was dealt with? I expected a lot of bad **** to go down in the end but what happened at the end was just silly and didn't make a lot of sense. Pretty much if the Reapers don't lay waste everyone in the galaxy,

Spoiler:
the Mass Relays will since they either destroy mostly everbody or make everyone stranded in one sytem, resulting in overpopulation. Because the Sol sytem doesn't have enough resources and food for everybody, you can already expect another war brewing.

Also, your simplification of the ending is cute, but like many of the arguments against it, it ignores the nuanced implications and ideas presented. The Reapers are not normal synthetic beings. They are a hybrid of organic and synthetic. Their innards are that of organic creatures, millions of them. This would allow them to reasonably not consider themselves synthetics.

But they're still synthetics.

As far as your complaint about the unification of the Geth disproving the entirety of the catalyst's claim that synthetics will inherently rise up and destroy organics doesn't hold water, logically speaking. One instance of Synthetics allying with organics for a matter of weeks isn't strong enough proof to deny that what the catalyst said may still be true.

Geth are people now and each unit has free will. If some Geth go bad, at least some will be good. To judge a race because of what a few bad apples do is not only unfair but also racist.

There's no reason to think that the Geth won't later turn against organics again. In fact, the reveal that they have individualized their perspective means that they are likely to begin making decisions similar to that of a regular organic, including eventually aggression and the desire for power. Also the Geth aren't the only instance of synthetics rising against organics. It's a major theme in all the games, and it happens in various ways throughout the series - from the Project Overlord DLC, to Javik saying very sternly that in his time Synthetics attempted to overtake organics, to various rogue VI's and AI's that show up throughout the games. What the catalyst says in regards to Synthetics inherently going against their creators makes perfect sense upon inspection.

The only reason Geth ever attacked is because it was an act of self defense against the Quarians for they were trying to kill them and the only reason they came out of the Perseus Veil and allied with the Reapers is because they were reprogrammed. Also the only reason why they willingly joined the Reapers in 3 is because they were afraid and had no other option for they would've faced possible extinction and were then reprogrammed again. For a being that prevents conflict between organics and synthetics, the Catalyst sure knows how to start 'em. For all we know, it's the Reapers fault synthetics in Javik's time were dicks.

The only reasonable complaints about the ending stem from various plot holes and obvious oversights made by the dev team - such as EDI somehow surviving the 'destroy' option, and the squad mates that you took with you during the final attack somehow being back on the Normandy after being with Shepard in Harbinger's blast, and so on. Everything else is knee jerking or people just being unhappy that the series is over, and taking their unhappiness out on the game that ends the series.

Seriously? That's your theory on us? We're mad 'cause this game ends the series? And you call me cute.

Nem - I'm not talking about what you expected. I don't know what you expected. I'm talking about what the perception of the complaints are and the fact that some people DO want a sunshine and rainbows ending. In fact, the poll that is constantly cited as proof as to the enormity of people's disappointment of the ending has the winning option as "we want a lighter ending". Not speaking of the plot holes, but speaking that they don't like that it's somewhat tragic and melancholy. These people should be ignored as strongly as possible.

The reapers are half synthetic and half organic. It allows them to not consider themselves synthetics to the same degree that they consider the geth and other units.

Geth aren't people, they are still synthetics, technically. They now have free will and a similar perception of the world as organics, but they still maintain all of the benefits of synthetics (immortal, extremely smart, so on). And as I said, free will makes it more likely that they will come to the decision that they should rule the galaxy because they will now inherit the desire for power. Racism and bad apples don't apply, the reapers see it in black and white, and there is enough evidence cited throughout the entirety of the series to support their assertion that synthetics will eventually turn on their creators. The reason they turn isn't important here, simply that they do turn.

That is my theory on those who are complaining about things that don't have a basis in reason and logic, and who are just trumpeting the flawed and easily retorted talking points stated on the various 'movement' sites. Those who have concerns about plot holes and the like are fine, those who complain about the tone of the ending don't have credibility. I feel they are bandwagoning. In fact I feel most who are complaining about the end are bandwagoning. It explains the increasingly hyperbolic complaints that people have as more time goes on. Whether you fit in that group, I don't know, nor do I care.

Wow there sure are a lot of spoilers not in tags on this page.

Yahtzee reviews ME3.

YouTube video

On a none-spoiler related note, anyone playing the ME3 Coop? I'm liking it. 🙂

To those playing, what are your favorite weapons/classes/builds?

Originally posted by Nibedicus
On a none-spoiler related note, anyone playing the ME3 Coop? I'm liking it. 🙂

To those playing, what are your favorite weapons/classes/builds?

Drell Adept, Krogan Soldier/Sentinel, Quarian Infiltrator, Salarian Engineer, and Asari Vanguard are pretty much tops. Human vanguard is a regular munchkin class, but useless for anything Gold.

If that video is the case, it's brilliant but the execution is lacking if it was released as DLC.

But I believe it. It makes total sense.

Child's Play isn't accepting donations from the Retake Mass Effect movement. 😐

'Sorry kids, we know its bad and all but these guys don't like Biowares endings! **** THEIR MONEY!'

ugh3

It is interesting that there is so much evidence for the indoctrination theory. I find it hard to believe this is what Bioware was planning the whole time, but the more I look into it the more reasons I find supporting it. If Bioware had intended the ending to be completely straight forward, you have to wonder, why IS some of this stuff in there?

Even if Bioware didn't plan that from the get go, they should scrap whatever idea they had and replace it with Shepard actually being indoctrinated the whole time eversince he came back to Earth with reinforcements for that actually explains everything including the

Spoiler:
God Kid BS