Still not reading anything above me. I'm nearing the end and really trying to avoid spoilers.
They must really screw the pooch on the ending though, because the buildup is epic as ****. I'm enjoying myself immensely. At one point I chuckled to myself at the spectacle of the Earth battle, then segued into laughing at the reactions I've seen at the ending, even given all the goodness leading up to it.
Originally posted by BackFire
Will be interested to hear your thoughts on the ending, Digi.
Heh. Ask and ye shall receive.
Even knowing that so many people were upset at the ending sort of "prepares" me for it, so to speak. I would've liked to see my reaction without knowing about the online criticism. As it is, I can't even guess at what I would have thought without that insight.
I guess my first overwhelming thought is that the insane backlash was, well, insane. The second was that, sure, it's lackluster in terms of filling us in on what exactly happens afterward, and could have been done better. But I didn't leave unsatisfied.
The entire premise behind the criticism was "They billed it as a series where our choices mattered, then the ending made all of those choices meaningless." If that were truly the case, the backlash would be 100% warranted. As it is, my reaction is "well, sort of." Because a lot of the choices did matter, just not on the scale people had hoped.
Save Ashley in the first game instead of Kaidan, and there's a lot that changes...namely, one of them is dead, and you get to interact with the other for the duration of the series. The universe doesn't have to shudder for that to feel a lot different. Shepherd's determination on the Council sacrifice thing in the 1st one works its way all the way into the 3rd. Even how I dealt with people in the 1st and 2nd changed how I reacted to them and interacted with them in subsequent games. Nothing changed within the world, but the storylines I chose to pursue earlier on reflected in my behavior and interactions later on as a player. Even little things like Anderson's send-off (or lack thereof). Or, sticking with that same event (Anderson),
Spoiler:It mattered in the whole, and there are many other examples. Bottom line, the world still felt dynamic.
if you do the "school" mission earlier, you get some insight into Anderson and that woman who clearly likes/loves him, and it makes the whole thing a bit more tragic.
My guess is that the extended ending will be what they should've done from the start. But the ending wasn't an abject failure. It's just missing the 80's-style montage of what everyone went on to do after they graduated from Normandy High. Which, ok, will be satisfying to see, but not necessary for the story to feel finished.
The whole ending sequence, starting with the Earth assault, falls into some expected - and potentially unavoidable - cliches, but the execution was solid. Making the Illusive Man
Spoiler:was a bit of a cop-out imo. It made the philosophical difference he posed much less hard-hitting and easier to dismiss. And the battle sequences at the ending were excellent, particularly the "tower defense" of the final missile vehicles. Even on normal difficulty, it was harrowing and challenging, requiring a level of quick reactions and micromanagement not seen elsewhere in the game. At no other time did I experiment with so many different tactics, or feel legitimately overwhelmed (f***ing Banshees).
under Reaper control
Downloading the extended ending as I type.
Oh, though I should add that my above comments don't excuse how Bioware handled the fallout, which has been laughably bad. As someone who does occasional marketing and PR for my company, their strategy (or lack thereof most likely) following the criticism was almost shockingly bad, up to and including the rushed scramble to release numerous new endings. Even if they're good - and I'm sifting through past comments to see this thread's reaction to them - the ME franchise took a gigantic blow due to their lack of coherent plan.
I agree with most of what you said, Digi. Though I don't know how they can really plan how to react to something like the reaction to the ending. They had no way of knowing that people's negative reaction to the ending would be so severe and extreme, they were obviously in a panic and caught off guard by the whole thing, and it's hard to blame them for that. Though in retrospect I'm sure they could have done better in handling it.
But as far as the ending, you seem to feel similarly to how I felt. Though I was fortunate to beat the game quickly enough to pretty much avoid the entire backlash, it didn't really start until after I finished the game, and I'm very grateful for that, one thing I hate is the idea of having other people's opinions potentially souring my experience of a game like this before I even complete it.
Watched the extended stuff. And really, all it did was flesh out what we could extrapolate from the original anyway. I liked the irony of the Illusive Man's path being the more benevolent of the two (though obviously he would've found different uses for the control). But still, it was really nothing new, just....extended. Nice to see Shepard's talk with the Architect (?) extended somewhat as well. That was the only thing that wasn't easily extrapolated from what we already knew.
It was also, well, sad in a way.
Spoiler:.
Shepard dies, regardless of the synthetic upload thing. I won't lie and say I didn't want to see a happier ending for her (my Shepard was female)
But the extended endings didn't change anything. If those placated the angry fans, then the fans are kinda dumb. It was a good game regardless. As odd as it seems saying this, focusing too much on the ending is kinda missing the point. If the criticism hadn't existed, I would've played it, probably had some questions, but would have enjoyed it immensely. As it is, that's what happened anyway, so I'm good.
Originally posted by BackFire
I agree with most of what you said, Digi. Though I don't know how they can really plan how to react to something like the reaction to the ending. They had no way of knowing that people's negative reaction to the ending would be so severe and extreme, they were obviously in a panic and caught off guard by the whole thing, and it's hard to blame them for that. Though in retrospect I'm sure they could have done better in handling it.But as far as the ending, you seem to feel similarly to how I felt. Though I was fortunate to beat the game quickly enough to pretty much avoid the entire backlash, it didn't really start until after I finished the game, and I'm very grateful for that, one thing I hate is the idea of having other people's opinions potentially souring my experience of a game like this before I even complete it.
Nice to see I'm not the only one.
And sure, you can't technically plan for something like that. But once it hits the fan, how you react is everything. Bioware's reaction seemed to be "OMG! I'm so sorry you guys, here's something we made last night to fix it. Are you happy now? Well, are you?" It reeked of desperation, however well-intentioned. I honestly would've waited longer to release a new ending, done the sh*t out of it to please fans, and outside of a single, comprehensive statement expressing remorse, I wouldn't have pandered to the critics at every turn. Addressing it once in a thorough manner acknowledges the problem. Letting it become a recurring theme internally within the company just reinforces the idea that what you did was bad, both within the company and externally. Perception is half the battle.
Bare in mind, in the original ending people were worried over how ambiguous it is.
Spoiler:
All the Mass relays blow up, which Arrival showed pretty much wiped out the star system it was in, and the fleet was all stuck on a devastated Earth. It really was a possibility that 90% of the galaxy had just blown up and all your friends were stranded on a blasted rock waiting to starve.
The Extended Ending fixes that by showing what happens after the ending.
Fair enough, Neph. I'm not saying the original was without holes. Just that once I saw the extended ones, it played out pretty much like I imagined anyway.
Also, I'm sure you guys already covered squad decisions, but just couldn't find any use for James, and almost as little for Garrus. My Shepard was zero-biotic all-guns character. And the powers that helped me the most were Liara's singularity and Tali's drones. Setting up chokepoints, pulling guys out of cover...just wildly useful.
I went with Garrus for sentimental value in the finale. But my best tandem was undoubtedly Liara and Tali. With them combined, it was like setting up a personal playground of destruction. I didn't bring on Kaidan (too much whiny BS), so I didn't get to use him in ME3.
If I ever play through again, it will be as a full biotic. I'm sure the dynamics of combat would change.
Just discovered the Synthesis and Rejection endings. Not sure what to think. At least it makes it seem like they left no stone unturned with the ending. Nice fodder for debate, I imagine, over which one is the best or should be considered canon. Though I actually kinda dislike that
Spoiler:I mean, go out with some grace. You don't always need to string the audience along to the next installment.
if you do enough, you get to see a living Shepard - albeit rather crispy - breathe in following the Citadel choice.
I've also been picking through youtube for storyline and romance stuff that I missed. Lots to think about.
A really good series though.
"What the new ‘Leviathan’ DLC will do is add conversations toward the end of Mass Effect 3 that will be dependent on what choices gamers make during the DLC."
This could be significant. Could alter the conversation with the Catalyst some more.
Originally posted by Digi
Just discovered the Synthesis and Rejection endings. Not sure what to think. At least it makes it seem like they left no stone unturned with the ending. Nice fodder for debate, I imagine, over which one is the best or should be considered canon. Though I actually kinda dislike thatSpoiler:I mean, go out with some grace. You don't always need to string the audience along to the next installment.
if you do enough, you get to see a living Shepard - albeit rather crispy - breathe in following the Citadel choice.I've also been picking through youtube for storyline and romance stuff that I missed. Lots to think about.
A really good series though.
For me, I consider Synthesis the best ending for a pure paragon Shep, especially the extended one. It seems the one where everything kinda works out the best for everyone involved.
For Renegade, I'd say Destroy, as I can't imagine a Paragon Shepard choosing destroy, knowing that it would
Spoiler:just to satisfy his lust for vengeance.
kill all the Geth and EDI,
Control is middle ground. Apparently the tone of the voice over is different depending on if Shepard was paragon or renegade. In theory it could be very paragony or regegadey, too much gray areas though.
I played the ending numerous times, to see all the permutations, then also went to youtube to catch stuff I missed.
My Control ending was very paragon. Felt almost identical to Synthesis in terms of moral "rightness." You're right that Destroy is a fairly renegade-only route. It's honestly pretty easy to choose one of the others.
Rejection is also bad, because it implies that the Reapers will start to fail, if not in the next cycle, then soon thereafter. It's a different kind of genocide.
The Catalyst makes an interesting point with the whole synthetic/organic thing. But then I wanted to yell at them "Look at the Geth/Quarians!" Shepard walks in, does his/her thing, and they're working together like butt-buddies. The "inevitability" of organic/synthetic war seems undermined by that example. But they needed the plot device, and I suppose it's understandable that an AI/VI would think like that, having been programmed as such.
...
I'll be honest, what gets me isn't the ending. It's
Spoiler:
Shepard dying, and all that implies. Some of the legitimately touching love stories available - Ashley and Liara come to mind - make the ending absolutely heart-wrenching.
I prefer Destroy to Synthesis because throughout the series the goal has been to kill the goddamn Reapers and that's the only ending that actually does that.
Its better than the retarded Synthesis ending when the Reapers are helping put the galaxy back together and everyone seems to be fine with them now. I wonder if they bring the quadrillions of beings they've slaughtered back to life as well.
****ing Reapers. Just because some little shit suddenly thinks the real goal of the series should be to solve the conflict between synthetics and organics, doesn't make the Reapers any less in need of getting exploded by red magic.
Synthesis is also generally terrible all around.
Originally posted by Digi
I played the ending numerous times, to see all the permutations, then also went to youtube to catch stuff I missed.My Control ending was very paragon. Felt almost identical to Synthesis in terms of moral "rightness." You're right that Destroy is a fairly renegade-only route. It's honestly pretty easy to choose one of the others.
Rejection is also bad, because it implies that the Reapers will start to fail, if not in the next cycle, then soon thereafter. It's a different kind of genocide.
The Catalyst makes an interesting point with the whole synthetic/organic thing. But then I wanted to yell at them "Look at the Geth/Quarians!" Shepard walks in, does his/her thing, and they're working together like butt-buddies. The "inevitability" of organic/synthetic war seems undermined by that example. But they needed the plot device, and I suppose it's understandable that an AI/VI would think like that, having been programmed as such.
...
I'll be honest, what gets me isn't the ending. It's
Spoiler:
Shepard dying, and all that implies. Some of the legitimately touching love stories available - Ashley and Liara come to mind - make the ending absolutely heart-wrenching.
I actually really liked how in the EC the Catalyst is shown as, in essence, an extremely powerful rogue insane AI, and that his reasoning obviously seems flawed and convoluted. It kinda makes The Reapers and the Catalyst themselves proof that his reasoning actually makes sense, since they themselves are rogue AI's doing what they're saying they are trying to stop. They are, in a twisted way, the ulimate example of that which they are claiming to be trying to protect the galaxy from.
Film Crit Hulk Likes the Mass Effect 3 Ending.
I can't tell if he's joking or what.