Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Maybe it's because you said it weird, but... are you putting Yoda on Dooku's level? Cuz if you are, you're putting the same Jedi Master who stymied Palpatine's Lightning barrage on the same level as Dooku--who feared and worshiped Sidious. The same Jedi master who out-did Dooku twice. And they're on the same level?
I meant that to say "Relative to Dooku and Yoda"
Also, though Dooku feared Palpatine, it may have been in part due to that Palpatine instilled a sense of fear in his psyche in the very perception he had of Sidious.
Dooku came to worship the darkside in some ways, and sidious to him was the very embodiment of it. Yet against Yoda it showed and heavily hinted that their force powers (dooku and yoda) were relatively even to the point where a decisive winner would be indeterminable.
It could also be that Dooku was brazen in his combat aginst Yoda due to yoda being the light side, of which he now viewed as inferior to the dark side, thus a boost in confidence and why his force usage was on par with yoda.
However against Sidious the epitome of the darkside in dooku's perception, he may have viewed him with fear and envy, thus lowering his confidence and self perception.
Thus I do rank Dooku, Yoda as equals in direct combat force powers, same with sidious, all three of them are 10.
However in combat I see Dooku faring far worse in a force fight with Sidious, for the fact that sidious is a master of the dark side, to the point where he is darkness incarnate. All the darkside energy that empowers dooku would bear him little advantage against Sidious when it would only in part empower sidious (rage, fear, pain). Whereas it brings Dooku to even footing with yoda in terms of force power, to the fact that Yoda can not manipulate nor feed on the darkside as Sidious can.
All three of them are equals in the force, however their balance of lightside, and darkside is all different, thus they fare better and worse against one another individually separate from one another.
Dooku Vs Yoda = Draw
Sidious Vs Dooku = Sidious favor
Sidious vs. Yoda = Draw
It similar to making a comparison with Yoda, sidious and Windu, Windu would fare far worse against yoda, but would do much better against sidious due to that Windu's power set is forged specifically to combat heavily enriched darkness. Windu may be far less powerful in the force then Sidious, but due to Sidious being uniquely darkness incarnate, it adds as a plethora of power for Windu to channel and feed upon which brings him up to sidious level in some ways. Where as Windu fighting Yoda would have nothing to feed upon, and would far inferior to Yoda in the force.
Now compare Windu and Dooku, who are stated to be equals by Yoda, and even goes on to state that if Windu were to battle Dooku (reference to present times not pre CW), that windu at best would be able to draw. Windu himself states when contemplating if to assassinate Dooku, that at best he would die doing so.
I see Dooku as Windu's superior in the froce, and equal in sabers, Windu would not have the same advantage over Dooku he would over sidious. Dooku channels some dark side energies, but not all, he also channels much of the light side still, thus Windu would have much less to feed upon and empower himself with. That and Dooku unlike Sidious, does not depend upon hate, rage, and fear to empower himself, he is calm, calculative and limits emotion.
Dooku Compared to Windu
Dooku force - 10
Wndu force - 8
Dooku Sabers - 9
Windu Sabers - 9
Originally posted by Board WalkerUh huh.
I meant that to say "Relative to Dooku and Yoda"Also, though Dooku feared Palpatine, it may have been in part due to that Palpatine instilled a sense of fear in his psyche in the very perception he had of Sidious.
Dooku came to worship the darkside in some ways, and sidious to him was the very embodiment of it. Yet against Yoda it showed and heavily hinted that their force powers (dooku and yoda) were relatively even to the point where a decisive winner would be indeterminable.
It could also be that Dooku was brazen in his combat aginst Yoda due to yoda being the light side, of which he now viewed as inferior to the dark side, thus a boost in confidence and why his force usage was on par with yoda.
However against Sidious the epitome of the darkside in dooku's perception, he may have viewed him with fear and envy, thus lowering his confidence and self perception.
Thus I do rank Dooku, Yoda as equals in direct combat force powers, same with sidious, all three of them are 10.
However in combat I see Dooku faring far worse in a force fight with Sidious, for the fact that sidious is a master of the dark side, to the point where he is darkness incarnate. All the darkside energy that empowers dooku would bear him little advantage against Sidious when it would only in part empower sidious (rage, fear, pain). Whereas it brings Dooku to even footing with yoda in terms of force power, to the fact that Yoda can not manipulate nor feed on the darkside as Sidious can.
All three of them are equals in the force, however their balance of lightside, and darkside is all different, thus they fare better and worse against one another individually separate from one another.
Dooku Vs Yoda = Draw
Sidious Vs Dooku = Sidious favor
Sidious vs. Yoda = Draw
It similar to making a comparison with Yoda, sidious and Windu, Windu would fare far worse against yoda, but would do much better against sidious due to that Windu's power set is forged specifically to combat heavily enriched darkness. Windu may be far less powerful in the force then Sidious, but due to Sidious being uniquely darkness incarnate, it adds as a plethora of power for Windu to channel and feed upon which brings him up to sidious level in some ways. Where as Windu fighting Yoda would have nothing to feed upon, and would far inferior to Yoda in the force.
Now compare Windu and Dooku, who are stated to be equals by Yoda, and even goes on to state that if Windu were to battle Dooku (reference to present times not pre CW), that windu at best would be able to draw. Windu himself states when contemplating if to assassinate Dooku, that at best he would die doing so.
I see Dooku as Windu's superior in the froce, and equal in sabers, Windu would not have the same advantage over Dooku he would over sidious. Dooku channels some dark side energies, but not all, he also channels much of the light side still, thus Windu would have much less to feed upon and empower himself with. That and Dooku unlike Sidious, does not depend upon hate, rage, and fear to empower himself, he is calm, calculative and limits emotion.
Dooku Compared to Windu
Dooku force - 10
Wndu force - 8
Dooku Sabers - 9
Windu Sabers - 9
Yoda?Dooku.
Yoda>Mace.
Yoda?Sidious.
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
Dooku wouldn't stalemate Yoda... Yoda is the most powerful foe the darkness had ever seen. And Yoda stalemated one who is more powerful than Dooku. I know, it's ABC. But consider that Dooku ran away from Yoda and that Dooku is Mace's equal (who is less powerful than Yoda).
I did not state Yoda would defeat Dooku in a no hold bars duel, my analysis was purely for Force comparison. And fighting relative to the characters depending upon their power set, Dooku would fare far better against Yoda, then would Windu.
Dooku also has the potential to kill Yoda, the difference between yoda, sidious and Dooku is so small, that it comes down to their relative preferences that give one an advantage over the other.
For a pure fight to the death between dooku and yoda, I see both dying, or one dying slightly before the other while the other dies shortly after from wounds. Yoda 53/ 47 Dooku in terms of bets, but its so small either could kill the other.
Originally posted by Board WalkerThe difference between Yoda and Sidious is so small that a change of scenario could well warrant a victory for Yoda. The difference between Yoda and Dooku is so great that Dooku f*cked off twice from a fight with him, despite deep immersion in to the Dark Side the second time around. If his offensive powers were so on par with Yoda, he'd utilize them, and he'd win. They're not. And neither are his saber abilities.
I did not state Yoda would defeat Dooku in a no hold bars duel, my analysis was purely for Force comparison. And fighting relative to the characters depending upon their power set, Dooku would fare far better against Yoda, then would Windu.Dooku also has the potential to kill Yoda, the difference between yoda, sidious and Dooku is so small, that it comes down to their relative preferences that give one an advantage over the other.
For a pure fight to the death between dooku and yoda, I see both dying, or one dying slightly before the other while the other dies shortly after from wounds. Yoda 53/ 47 Dooku in terms of bets, but its so small either could kill the other.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
The difference between Yoda and Sidious is so small that a change of scenario could well warrant a victory for Yoda. The difference between Yoda and Dooku is so great that Dooku f*cked off twice from a fight with him, despite deep immersion in to the Dark Side the second time around. If his offensive powers were so on par with Yoda, he'd utilize them, and he'd win. They're not. And neither are his saber abilities.
Dooku did not fight to the death, because yoda had the advantage, as I said 53/47 in yoda's favor. Dooku was calculative not brazenly rash, he had a war to lead, and risking his death would be risking the entire war.
Additionally, dooku would be likely unable to kill yoda in the force due to them being so on par with one another in the far. The same goes for yoda, in that he would be unable to kill dooku with the force, it would come down to sabers.
I see yoda as a 10, while dooku is a 9, yes yoda is stronger in sabers, but the difference is so small dooku could very well kill yoda just as likely he could kill dooku;
If both dooku and yoda were to both fight to the death, and dooku had no care for a sake of leading a war, I could see it being very close, force powers would be negligible due to them being so close, it would come down to saber skill which both are so close it would be close, with yoda slight advantage,
Originally posted by Board Walker
Dooku did not fight to the death, because yoda had the advantage, as I said 53/47 in yoda's favor. Dooku was calculative not brazenly rash, he had a war to lead, and risking his death would be risking the entire war.Additionally, dooku would be likely unable to kill yoda in the force due to them being so on par with one another in the far. The same goes for yoda, in that he would be unable to kill dooku with the force, it would come down to sabers.
I see yoda as a 10, while dooku is a 9, yes yoda is stronger in sabers, but the difference is so small dooku could very well kill yoda just as likely he could kill dooku;
Well, I don't know why you see it that way.... Every indication is that Dooku can't handle Yoda. I think you might be overstating Dooku's abilities just a tad.
Originally posted by truejedi
Well, I don't know why you see it that way.... Every indication is that Dooku can't handle Yoda. I think you might be overstating Dooku's abilities just a tad.
possibly so, my opinions change often, I do think Yoda would kill Dooku more often the not, and feel that if dooku would have stayed on Vjun fighting it would have been a great risk to his life.
I'm just saying, I think Dooku could pull a upset, thats the level of relative closeness they are (not saying they are too close, but relatively on the same tier where dooku can actually hurt and kill yoda). Where as I would see Maul as being near impossible of hurting and kill yoda.
Originally posted by Board WalkerThe AotC novel clearly states how very unable Dooku was to get anywhere near Yoda with a saber. I recently quoted half the duel. He delved deep in to the Force and still couldn't come anywhere close to Yoda with a blade. And that "contest (could) not be decided by (their) knowledge of the Force" not because they were "on par". But because Dooku couldn't defeat Yoda with the Force.
Dooku did not fight to the death, because yoda had the advantage, as I said 53/47 in yoda's favor. Dooku was calculative not brazenly rash, he had a war to lead, and risking his death would be risking the entire war.Additionally, dooku would be likely unable to kill yoda in the force due to them being so on par with one another in the far. The same goes for yoda, in that he would be unable to kill dooku with the force, it would come down to sabers.
I see yoda as a 10, while dooku is a 9, yes yoda is stronger in sabers, but the difference is so small dooku could very well kill yoda just as likely he could kill dooku;
If both dooku and yoda were to both fight to the death, and dooku had no care for a sake of leading a war, I could see it being very close, force powers would be negligible due to them being so close, it would come down to saber skill which both are so close it would be close, with yoda slight advantage,
Originally posted by truejedi
Yeah, Dooku lost the battle on Vjun? (for some reason I cannot remember the planet...) (Cestus, like the book?)anyway
Yoda never attacked Dooku with the force. Considering he blocked everything Dooku threw at him with ease, Dooku is lucky Yoda didn't.
Originally posted by DrunknClockworkHe wasn't killed or he wasn't captured, but he was clearly getting overpowered, which is why he launched the missile.
I've been over this some time ago. I fail to see how Dooku lost their battle on Vjun.
Originally posted by DrunknClockwork
But here's the question: Why didn't he do it? Why did he jump into a lightsaber duel if he could've just taken him out with the force?
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He wasn't killed or he wasn't captured, but he was clearly getting overpowered, which is why he launched the missile.
Go back and read through the post. This question has already been addressed. [/B]
Originally posted by truejedi
He said "I planned to launch the missile if I couldn't defeat you." And then he launched the missile. That tells me he couldn't defeat him.
Originally posted by DrunknClockworkYou have to remember Dooku had more advantages in this duel than Yoda. He had the element of surprise, he had a power boost that he was able to take full advantage of from the dark side nexus, and they were fighting in his territory (a separatist strong hold). All this and he was still forced to flee.
Dooku was being pushed back slowly, yes, but at the same time he was described as "countering Yoda's every move".
He launched the missile because Kenobi and Anakin were about to arrive on the scenery and if that had happened his chances of escape would've dropped to 0%.
Originally posted by DrunknClockworkWell it's there, trust me. I'm not going over all that again.
Still can't see it for some reason.
Originally posted by DrunknClockworkWhat are you saying?
Just because he didn't defeat Yoda, it does not mean he lost the duel. There is a third option.