Originally posted by DARTH POWERYoda did not catch Sidious off guard. Sidious knew Yoda was there to kill him. Explain to me how Sidious was caught off guard. I'm pretty sure Sidious did not think Yoda was gonna stand up and preach to him.
Well isnt that mainly what he was doing against Sidious.. Redirecting his own force attacks at him, apart from the one force push when he got him off guard.
Yoda also tried to crush Sidious with a senate pod, and nearly succeeded. Yoda did not try this with Dooku. Every object Dooku threw at him, Yoda threw it to the side.
This from Dooku's profile at starwars.com:Yoda did not best Dooku, but he really did not try his hardest. Yoda admitts to only wanting to capture Dooku, and it is automatic that Yoda would have to restrain himself to do this. When trying to kill your opponent, there is no holding back. You do anything you can when you can. Yoda had the opportunity to attack Dooku with TK attacks, but as you see he didn't. It was not like Dooku was overwhelming Yoda the way Sidious was with the senate pods."The Jedi Master Yoda confronted Dooku. The two engaged in a titanic struggle of Force powers, neither besting the other. It came down to a contest of lightsabers."
Yoda had already proved Ventress was absolutely no threat to him whatsoever.. Sabers or not, he could simply paralyze her.But he still chose to duel with her instead of capturing her. No one said he can take Dooku out as easily with the force as he could Ventress. The point is he could have done a lot more just like he could have with Ventress, but he decided to duel instead.
And it wasnt Yoda's mission there to capture Ventress.
It was his mission to capture Dooku.. And that was a particularly important mission considering it would have stopped the clone wars before they began.I'm not arguing who was more important to capture. I'm saying he could have done more to capture them. Instead he decided to duel them.
I cant see any good reason at all for Yoda not to knock out Dooku with the Force if that was such an easy thing to do.He didn't even knock Ventress out with the force. Besides, who said it would be that easy for him to take Dooku out?
Im not so sure the gap is "huge." The quote above says the force battle was a titanic struggle. [/B]I'll check that out, but let me ask you this: Why did Yoda not use any TK attacks on Dooku like he did with Sidious when he had much more opportunity to do so? Is it because he couldn't?
You even said it yourself that if something contradicts the movie it is not canon. So what has changed now? Because that would be a huge contradiction.
^ Also, it appears Yoda had fatherly/compassion feelings towards Dooku, or sth of that sort (as confirmed in Dark Rendezvous, please correct me if I’m wrong on this).
EDIT:
Btw it always seemed to me that when confronting Ventress or Dooku, Yoda was restrained and wanted to teach them a lesson about the twisted nature of the Dark Side, not just simply pwn them.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda did not catch Sidious off guard. Sidious knew Yoda was there to kill him. Explain to me how Sidious was caught off guard. I'm pretty sure Sidious did not think Yoda was gonna stand up and preach to him.
The force push caught him off guard.. why do you think he didnt defend himself.. Just like the Force lightning at the beginning caught Yoda off guard.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda also tried to crush Sidious with a senate pod, and nearly succeeded. Yoda did not try this with Dooku. Every object Dooku threw at him, Yoda threw it to the side.
The senate pod Sidious threw at him. So basically redirecting his own attacks.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda did not best Dooku, but he really did not try his hardest.
Then Yoda's a complete idiot, and the clone wars is all his fault.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Yoda admitts to only wanting to capture Dooku, and it is automatic that Yoda would have to restrain himself to do this.
Just because your not going to kill someone does not mean you need to considerably hold back in defeating them. Did Anakin hold back when he defeat Dooku? No. Was he going for the kill? No. He decided to win. And thats exactly what he did.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
When trying to kill your opponent, there is no holding back. You do anything you can when you can. Yoda had the opportunity to attack Dooku with TK attacks, but as you see he didn't.
Yoda was spending most the time defending himself from Dooku's attacks, which the novel says he did "Far from Easily".. Whe he had the oppurtunity to redirect one of the lightning blasts right back at Dooku, thats exactly what he did. So you cant say he didnt once try to attack Dooku. He doesnt HAVE TO attack him with TK, its his choice how he attacks, and FL tends to be more letal than TK neway.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
It was not like Dooku was overwhelming Yoda the way Sidious was with the senate pods.
Hey hey I never said Dooku was a match for Yoda or Sidious. Im just saying theres not a HUGE gap between Dooku and Yoda, mainly in the Force. The quote from Dooku's profile clearly says they enagaged in a Titanic Force Struggle.. So they both struggled. Clearly Dooku struggled more than Yoda, but Yoda did struggle. He deflected Dooku's blasts "Far from easily", and was "exhausted" after their battle, and found his fight with Dooku to be good enough Saber practice for a long while.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
But he still chose to duel with her instead of capturing her.
He never duelled her. He wasnt there to capture Ventress. It was the Toydarian home world, and the Toydarians choice if Yoda can take Ventress prisoner. He was there competing with her to on Toydarian turf respecting their rules remember.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
So he let her escape because he was not there to capture her even though he had the opportunity?
He thought he already had her, she surprised him with the explosion. But either way that would have been entirely upto the Toydarians.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
I'm not arguing who was more important to capture. I'm saying he could have done more to capture them. Instead he decided to duel them.
And im saying Dooku was far more important to capture. And that was his mission. He only stopped Ventress to stop her killing a toydarian, otherwise he had no intention of capturing her there. Wasnt his mission.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
He didn't even knock Ventress out with the force.
He didnt need to! He had her completely paralyzed.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
Besides, who said it would be that easy for him to take Dooku out?
Thats what you imply when you say theres A HUGE difference in the 2 of them. Theres a HUGE difference in Dooku and Obiwan in the Force. Dooku just Force chokes him and paralyzes him. Theres a HUGE difference in Yoda and Ventress. He just Paralyzes her. Theres a HUGE difference in Dooku and Ventress, he has her choking on the floor by just lifting his finger. But theres not a HUGE difference between Yoda and Dooku. Thats actually a fight.
Originally posted by SIDIOUS 66
You even said it yourself that if something contradicts the movie it is not canon. So what has changed now? Because that would be a huge contradiction.
I have no idea what contradiction your going on about here. We are talking about a fight that happened in the movie.
Originally posted by axel_jovan
^ Also, it appears Yoda had fatherly/compassion feelings towards Dooku, or sth of that sort (as confirmed in Dark Rendezvous, please correct me if I’m wrong on this).
Yeah he did, but not enough to let him start a war,which killed hundreds of jedis he loves.
Also in DR he confirms that even in the dark air of Vjun, he loves Dooku enough to KILL him. So he obviously loved Dooku even more so to kill him on Geonosia.
Face it, pretty much the entire saga is filled with PIS moments. GL is both someone to be thanked (for bringing us Star Wars) and a complete turd (for ***king up the SW universe so bad). The entire SW universe needs a full reboot (ala the 2009 Star Trek movie) with a darker, grittier feel - and far more emphasis on the mystical side of the Force, rather than the cold, sterile scientific aspect that we get from the PT movies.
Originally posted by DARTH POWER
The force push caught him off guard.. why do you think he didnt defend himself.. Just like the Force lightning at the beginning caught Yoda off guard.
I'm not buying it, you mean to say that at 0:35 and 1:15 they weren't expecting an attack??
Sidious: "And now you'll experience the full power of the Dark Side." *raises hands slowly*.
Yoda thinking: "Dudes got more wrinkles than me now." *Gets caught of guard by Force Lightning*.
---
Sidious thinking: "Well I bet he doesn't retaliate so I'll just count Jedi death numbers in my head now..."
Yoda: "Not if anything to say about it" *pauzes* "I have!"
Sidious: *Gets caught off guard*
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Face it, pretty much the entire saga is filled with PIS moments. GL is both someone to be thanked (for bringing us Star Wars) and a complete turd (for ***king up the SW universe so bad). The entire SW universe needs a full reboot (ala the 2009 Star Trek movie) with a darker, grittier feel - and far more emphasis on the mystical side of the Force, rather than the cold, sterile scientific aspect that we get from the PT movies.
Agreed.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
Face it, pretty much the entire saga is filled with PIS moments. GL is both someone to be thanked (for bringing us Star Wars) and a complete turd (for ***king up the SW universe so bad). The entire SW universe needs a full reboot (ala the 2009 Star Trek movie) with a darker, grittier feel - and far more emphasis on the mystical side of the Force, rather than the cold, sterile scientific aspect that we get from the PT movies.
Not the entire SW universe need a reboot... But most definitely the PT.
Originally posted by Slash_KMC
I'm not buying it, you mean to say that at 0:35 and 1:15 they weren't expecting an attack??Sidious: "And now you'll experience the full power of the Dark Side." *raises hands slowly*.
Yoda thinking: "Dudes got more wrinkles than me now." *Gets caught of guard by Force Lightning*.
---
Sidious thinking: "Well I bet he doesn't retaliate so I'll just count Jedi death numbers in my head now..."
Yoda: "Not if anything to say about it" *pauzes* "I have!"
Sidious: *Gets caught off guard*
To be honest it did seem like thats what was going on in their heads!
I mean could Sidious have raised his hands any slower?! He even gave him warning "now u'll experience the full power of the dark side" To which Yoda seems to be thinking "yeah whatever"
Then Yoda warns Sidious "not if anything to say about it I have" to which Sidious thinks to himself "yeah lets see what you got.. go on.. free shot"
Originally posted by DARTH POWERIt didn't.
The force push caught him off guard
why do you think he didnt defend himselfHow do you know he didn't? This is not Harry Potter, they don't shout spells out before they do something. To me it looked like Sidious tried to block it and failed.
Just like the Force lightning at the beginning caught Yoda off guard.It didn't.
The senate pod Sidious threw at him. So basically redirecting his own attacks.Yoda used the same tactic Sidious was using. Sidious tried to crush Yoda to death, and Yoda tried to crush Sidious to death. That is not how it happened with him and Dooku.
Then Yoda's a complete idiot, and the clone wars is all his fault.Yoda is very arrogant.
He thought he was gonna go in that fight showing Dooku that he was still the master force user and duelist, and then capture him. He underestimated Dooku. Dooku momentarily outsmarted Yoda and made his escape.
Just because your not going to kill someone does not mean you need to considerably hold back in defeating them. Did Anakin hold back when he defeat Dooku? No. Was he going for the kill? No. He decided to win. And thats exactly what he did.Yes you do hold back. They are fighting with lightsabers, any swing can be fatal if they are not careful. Yoda was trying to defeat Dooku without accidently killing him. So yeah, it takes more concentration and a lot more holding back. Anakin on the other hand had a deep hatred for Dooku, so I doubt he cared about killing him in mid-combat. That would not be on his conscience and he would not be looked down upon for it. But killing Dooku while unarmed and at his mercy is a totally different story.
I do not think Anakin went in that fight holding back the same way Yoda did. Anakin could careless about accidently killing Dooku. It just so happened that Anakin found an opening and cut Dooku's hands off before killing him. It is not like Anakin thought "I am going to cut his hands off" and then succeeded. You can not compare Anakin's fight with Dooku to Yoda's. Yoda also does not have the reach Anakin has for a move like that to be that simple.
Yoda was spending most the time defending himself from Dooku's attacksYou're acting as if Dooku was overwhelming Yoda and Yoda had no time to attack back. Yoda had the same opportunity as Dooku had. It's not like Dooku was overwhelming Yoda like Sidious was.
which the novel says he did "Far from EasilyIt was refering to Dooku's lightning attack. And it probably was not easy, but there was no way Dooku could overpower Yoda with his lightning.
Whe he had the oppurtunity to redirect one of the lightning blasts right back at Dooku, thats exactly what he did.I know
So you cant say he didnt once try to attack Dooku.I never said that. I said he could have done a lot more.
He doesnt HAVE TO attack him with TKHe didn't have to with Sidious either but he still did. You know why? Because he was not holding back. He was trying to kill Sidious.
its his choice how he attacksI agree. He CHOSE not to.
and FL tends to be more letal than TK neway.That depends on how TK is used.
Hey hey I never said Dooku was a match for Yoda or Sidious. Im just saying theres not a HUGE gap between Dooku and Yoda, mainly in the Force.When I say huge gap, I mean there is a noticeable difference. Dooku would need a long way to be on Yoda's level of strength and mastery in the force.
The quote from Dooku's profile clearly says they enagaged in a Titanic Force Struggle.. So they both struggled. Clearly Dooku struggled more than Yoda, but Yoda did struggle.I am not saying Yoda did not struggle at all. But his battle with Sidious makes it very clear that he could have done a lot more to Dooku if he wanted. He managed to do more to Sidious than he did to Dooku although his chances were a lot slimmer with Sidious.
He deflected Dooku's blasts "Far from easily", and was "exhausted" after their battle, and found his fight with Dooku to be good enough Saber practice for a long while.Well yeah. Dooku was a far greater duelist than most jedi in the order. What practice could they offer Yoda that Dooku could not. At that Dooku was actually trying to kill Yoda, so it was more than just casual practice. He was fighting for his own life while struggling to restrain himself so not to accidently kill Dooku.
He never duelled her.No but he wanted to instead of just capturing her while he had the chance.
He wasnt there to capture Ventress.That was not his orginal purpose for his mission there, but his mission there was complete so there was no reason why he couldn't have captured her.
It was the Toydarian home world, and the Toydarians choice if Yoda can take Ventress prisoner. He was there competing with her to on Toydarian turf respecting their rules remember.Come on now, DP. She tried to kill the king so I'm pretty sure there was no doubt in Yoda's mind that they wanted her captured.
He thought he already had her, she surprised him with the explosion. But either way that would have been entirely upto the Toydarians.Why did she suprise him with the explosion? Because she knew it was either that or be captured.
And im saying Dooku was far more important to capture. And that was his mission. He only stopped Ventress to stop her killing a toydarian, otherwise he had no intention of capturing her there. Wasnt his mission.Again: It was not his mission but his mission was complete, so there was no reason to stop him. He let her go from his force hold on her because he CHOSE to. He gave her back her lightsabers and wanted to duel with her because he CHOSE to. Ventress surprised him with the explosion and made her escape because of this.
He didnt need to! He had her completely paralyzed.Exactly! It proves that he could have done more to capture her. It was that easy for Yoda to have captured her, but he CHOSE not to. It proves how easy Yoda could have killed her if he wanted.
Same way with Dooku. He could have done more to Dooku if he chose to, but he didn't. I am not saying he could have just walked in there, wave his hand, and knocked Dooku unconscience. Dooku is no Ventress, so of course it would take much more effort than it would for Ventress. The point is that he could have done a lot more to capture Dooku. Just like he could have actually captured Ventress when he had the chance but chose to teach her a lesson instead. It's called holding back.
Thats what you imply when you say theres A HUGE difference in the 2 of them. Theres a HUGE difference in Dooku and Obiwan in the Force. Dooku just Force chokes him and paralyzes him. Theres a HUGE difference in Yoda and Ventress. He just Paralyzes her. Theres a HUGE difference in Dooku and Ventress, he has her choking on the floor by just lifting his finger. But theres not a HUGE difference between Yoda and Dooku. Thats actually a fight.There is a big gap in power between them. That does not mean Yoda can just wave his hand and knock Dooku out. I doubt even LOTF Luke could do that with that much ease.
I have no idea what contradiction your going on about here. We are talking about a fight that happened in the movie.Geez Luiz...
I was talking about your quote.
Originally posted by Jinsoku Takai
It's called George Lucas is a ***king dipshit, no-brained, ****tard who cares nothing for issues of continuity and logic as it relates to the SW universe. And I'd like to smash his ***king face (repeatedly) with a concrete cinder block.
He's not wrote any of the EU. Not created it, not wrote it. Heck I bet he's not even flicked through it. So why would he care?! He's just made more money from it! Our money! But U know that poor guy can use an extra few dollars.