John McClane versus Rorschach...

Originally posted by dadudemon
I have not seen Die Hard 3, yet. Seriously. 😐

From what I saw of Die Hard 1 and 2, McClane doesn't come close to Rory in durability, strength, and resourcefulness. Much less brains.

However, McClane has does have some superhuman feats...they just aren't top tier.

For example, falling down the ventilation shaft, in Die Hard one, and catching the ledge. No human would have the "hand" strength to grab that ledge like that. The ones that do weigh entirely too much for it to work. Basically, you'd have to put the grip strength of one of the world's strongest men competitors on the body of a 105 pound cheerleader. Dead serials.

McClane's got enough brains to survive four movies.

As for top tier feats: Neither are Rorschach's either:
Toxic Avenger would completely own/rape/kill/cook/eat Rorschach, then mop whatever is left of the corpse.

Indeed. Good analysis and example.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane's got enough brains to survive four movies.

As for top tier feats: Neither are Rorschach's either:
Toxic Avenger would completely own/rape/kill/cook/eat Rorschach, then mop whatever is left of the corpse.

Indeed. Good analysis and example.

You're correct.

I would not put Rory much higher in durability than McClane. Both are superhuman, but I'd put McClane much closer to human than I would Rory.

Both have high-pain tolerance. Remember when Johnny boy just stood there and took the shot to the shoulder in 1? He was borderline crazy, at that point.

But that's Rory as well, through and through.

Strength feats...hmmm...

You know, I think I'll have to watch Watchmen (again) and Die Hard 3. I've seen DH 1, 2, and 4, but not 3. Strength should be an easy "gimme" for Rory, but I want to be absolutely sure.

As far as living through 4 movies..

check this out...you should get a lulz...

It takes a god to kill Rorschach. 😆

McClane isn't exactly top tier. Rorschach is.

Originally posted by Darth Martin
McClane isn't exactly top tier. Rorschach is.

Well...top tier of what?

Very level of superhumans?

McClane has several superhuman feats.

I just think the Rory has more impressive low-level superhuman feats.

Neither are top-tier of anything. They aren't "human-level" cause they have super-human feats. They aren't anywhere close to top-tier superhuman, though, as we have beings like Dr. Manhattan running around with his weiner hanging out.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Uhhhh...Jackie Chan is.

😐

Just sayin'.

See, here's the deal with McClane. You gotta kill him quick. The longer the fight drags out, the more his luck comes into play. A fight with Rorschach is gonna drag out. Rorschach is gonna beat on McClane, beat on him some more, gonna have McClane bleeding and in pain, but eventually Mac will run across a crowbar and bury it in Rorschach's head. That's how McClane fights. That's how he wins. That's why he's always the last man standing.

Example of someone who will beat Mac h2h? Riggs. Why? Because Riggs has shown that he can kill someone in the blink of an eye. He wouldn't put Mac down for good with kicks and punches, he'd do it by breaking his neck seconds into the fight.

My respect for McClane's h/h ability went down when he got his ass kicked by a psuedo ninja girl in Live Free or Die Hard.

Who was alive at the end of that movie? Yeah.

Originally posted by Omega Vision
My respect for McClane's h/h ability went down when he got his ass kicked by a psuedo ninja girl in Live Free or Die Hard.

The ninja Chick who he knocked out, then killed when she wouldn't pack it in, you mean..?

McClane's neck is unbreakable, judging by the fact that noone managed to do it.

I'm pretty sure that if that was viable, Either Karl, Ninja Chick, that German dude from 3 or the special forces guys he fought throughout, or any of the neck breaking situations encountered woulda done it.
Im pretty sure that that tumble down the stairs with Karl's brother woulda done it. It certainly f***ed up the brother.
("You shoulda heard your brother squealin'....when I broke his f***ing neck" etc)

Riggs is good, but I cant see him getting that one in.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane's neck is unbreakable, judging by the fact that noone managed to do it.

I'm pretty sure that if that was viable, Either Karl, Ninja Chick, that German dude from 3 or the special forces guys he fought throughout woulda done it.

Riggs is good, but I cant see him getting that one in.

But I digress, Mac takes a beating here and wipes his ass with Rory's "face."

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane's neck is unbreakable, judging by the fact that noone managed to do it.

I'm pretty sure that if that was viable, Either Karl, Ninja Chick, that German dude from 3 or the special forces guys he fought throughout, or any of the neck breaking situations encountered woulda done it.

Except they didn't do that because he was the main character and you've just described PIS. They had the skills and opportunity to shut him down but they couldn't do so because of the script.

Even Karl's brother had his neck broken by accident, McClane was surprised when he'd done it.

The only guy McClane really beat H2H without getting help from an enviromental object or gun was Major Grant and even he was killed by the plane. McClane isn't as brutal or unforgiving as Rorschach and I can't see him killing Roschach in a fight situation. Even Nite Owl could stomp McClane from what I saw in Watchmen.

Well....doesn't PIS explain why Riggs was elderly and alive in LW4, despite not being able to outfight a boxer using only the basic jabs in LW3..? (another reason Riggs would be screwed against McClane.)

PIS (And the added PIS added by his man life partner Murtaugh)

Breaks is breaks. Necks is necks. A result is a result. McClane had a headlock on the dude at the time. He won intuitively, luckily, but thats the Tao of McClane for ya.

He beat Karl choosing to end the fight with the chain in a rush to stop the hostages on the roof getting C4ed all the way to NY, Sparked out ninja Chick H2H and bested and escaped from men trying to kill him.
No fight is in a vacuum, surroundings and objects wise.
And McClane is just creative enough to kill in timesaving yet amusing ways.

All watchmen powers were argueabley PIS. Except for Manhattan. Who was the only super-human.

RJ, are the many Martial Artists he fought, the bruisers, the Seals, The CIA, The marines, the Germans....are you suggesting none of these were trained in or aware of how to break necks?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Well....doesn't PIS explain why Riggs was elderly and alive in LW4, despite not being able to outfight a boxer using only the basic jabs in LW3..? (another reason Riggs would be screwed against McClane.)

PIS (And the added PIS added by his man life partner Murtaugh)

Breaks is breaks. Necks is necks. A result is a result. McClane had a headlock on the dude at the time. He won intuitively, luckily, but thats the Tao of McClane for ya.

He beat Karl choosing to end the fight with the chain in a rush to stop the hostages on the roof getting C4ed all the way to NY, Sparked out ninja Chick H2H and bested and escaped from men trying to kill him.
No fight is in a vacuum, surroundings and objects wise.
And McClane is just creative enough to kill in timesaving yet amusing ways.

All watchmen powers were argueabley PIS. Except for Manhattan. Who was the only super-human.

Well if the fight is in a room filled with a flight of stairs, chains, icicles, aeroplane engines and a car in an elevator shaft I'm sure McClane will be all right...

Rorschach is just too brutal, unfeeling, uncaring and totally without restraint in inflicting pain. McClane has previous in getting beat up to vastly skilled combatants, if he gives Rorschach free rein to beat up on him (like McClane has done in the Karl, Targo, Stuart and Mai Linh fights) Rorschach will kill him.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane's neck is unbreakable, judging by the fact that noone managed to do it.

Correct; this in only looking at foes he's faced and walked away from with all vertebra intact. If we factor in all the falls, drops, explosions and collisions he's survived, his neck is indeed made of something on par with admantium.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane easily, once he panics Rorschach by grabbing, removing and zippoing his "face" after absorbing punishment for a bit.

Onscreen feats count here and 4 movies and no death
vs 1 movie and Rorschach being killed in unarmed combat by a smurf.

🙂

He might have been killed by a smurf but that smurf was a God. McClane is not a good pugilist but he has incredible durability and endurance. His Aggressiveness and durability are usually what guarantee him a victory. Ink Dots is definitely a better brawler and i think his aggressiveness and durability is better than McClanes. I don't think McClane would have gotten up after taking a punch from Ozymandias, Ink Dots took a couple dozen.

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
RJ, are the many Martial Artists he fought, the bruisers, the Seals, The CIA, The marines, the Germans....are you suggesting none of these were trained in or aware of how to break necks?

I brought Riggs into this to show Mac's tenacity, I don't wanna rehash Riggs vs McClane again. You;re for Mac, I'm for Riggs, old news.

*LOL's as Rorschach dons a mask covered in McPewp* 😄

Originally posted by Lord Shadow Z
Well if the fight is in a room filled with a flight of stairs, chains, icicles, aeroplane engines and a car in an elevator shaft I'm sure McClane will be all right...

Rorschach is just too brutal, unfeeling, uncaring and totally without restraint in inflicting pain. McClane has previous in getting beat up to vastly skilled combatants, if he gives Rorschach free rein to beat up on him (like McClane has done in the Karl, Targo, Stuart and Mai Linh fights) Rorschach will kill him.

LOLZ Indeed. You forgot his Zippo. 😉

Oh I agree in a free reign/purely testing his endurance against axes/blowtorches etc situation. But McClane letting Rorschach wail away for free is real unlikely.

Originally posted by Robtard
Correct; this in only looking at foes he's faced and walked away from with all vertebra intact. If we factor in all the falls, drops, explosions and collisions he's survived, his neck is indeed made of something on par with admantium.

Absolutely!

Pretty fierce stuff that leaves the viewer with the impression that a T-800 would be easier to decapitate or break the neck of. (using only a worn wooden spoon)