John McClane versus Rorschach...

Support is support.

DH1: Mac had Al as constant support throughout.

DH2: Mac had Marv as support, the black airline tech guy as support.

DH3: Mac has Zeus as support. Without Zeus, Mac would have lost.

DH4: Mac had the support of Farrell, Freddy, his daughter and the FBI.

He ALWAYS had support. Riggs too. Riggs, his support just happend to come in the form of a partner. The fact that Mac had different people as support in each movie is a moot point, support is support.

Mac never needed saving as much as Riggs? crylaugh Oh man, the joys of delusion. DH1: Karl had Mac and his wife dead to rights, Al saved them. DH4: 47 had Mac dead to rights. Farrell saved him.

Question, gimmee a straight answer. The vid I posted, where Riggs saves Murtaugh....You think Mac could have done that?

heroes on watchmen broke bones like twigs 😐

1: Til the verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry end, Al was on the end of a walkie talkie and eating jelly rolls.

2: Marvin showed McClane a quick direction, and McClane nicked a radio he found on a terrorist. He at no time aided McClane in combat or saved him.

3: Yeah that was the nearest there was to a LW style buddy movie
that there is in the DH movies, but McClane STILL killed everyone by himself and saved Zeus's ass constantly too.. so that doesn't really apply either.

4: None of them saved McClanes ass in combat. The FBI didnt back him for shit. Kevin smith was a plot device intel and so basically Matthew. Again McClane is unassisted in combat.

LW1: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh and the other cops at the end.

LW2: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh at the end when the South African shot him

LW3: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh againnnnnnn numerous times, especially at the end with cop killers.

LW4: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh when Jet Li utterly utterly PWNs Riggs in H2H.

Originally posted by 0mega Spawn
heroes on watchmen broke bones like twigs 😐

McClane killed way more people onscreen than the Watchmen.

(Except Manhattan and Veidt's Octopus or Energy explosion depending on what version you're into)

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
1: Til the verrrrrrrrrrrrrrry end, Al was on the end of a walkie talkie and eating jelly rolls.

2: Marvin showed McClane a quick direction, and McClane nicked a radio he found on a terrorist. He at no time aided McClane in combat or saved him.

3: Yeah that was the nearest there was to a LW style buddy movie
that there is in the DH movies, but McClane STILL killed everyone by himself and saved Zeus's ass constantly too.. so that doesn't really apply either.

4: None of them saved McClanes ass in combat. The FBI didnt back him for shit. Kevin smith was a plot device intel and so basically Matthew. Again McClane is unassisted in combat.

LW1: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh and the other cops at the end.

LW2: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh at the end when the South African shot him

LW3: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh againnnnnnn numerous times, especially at the end with cop killers.

LW4: Riggs' Ass saved by Murtaugh when Jet Li utterly utterly PWNs Riggs in H2H.

LW1: Wrong. Riggs had Joshua at his mercy, he could have killed him, he showed mercy. Then he and Murtaugh killed Joshua together.

LW4: Wrong. Riggs had Li on the ropes, had the fight not gone to a chokefest, had it remained fisticuffs, Riggs was gonna win. Also, as I said before, Riggs did a helluva lot better against Li than any version of Mac would have done. Think back to the fire at Murtaugh's house when Riggs took on like 4 asians and beat the shit outta them all. BONG!!!!! When has Mac ever done anything like that, or anything like Riggs did in the vid I posted? Never.

Bottom line? It doesn't matter who was saved by who and how many times, it doesn't matter who had support, all that matters is that Riggs is better than McClane. All day, every day. He has a WAY better record in H2H combat.

haermm I see you have no counter for Farrell and Al saving Mac's life. You didn't even try to counter it. That's it, you're hopelessly in love with John McClane. haermm

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
McClane killed way more people onscreen than the Watchmen.

(Except Manhattan and Veidt's Octopus or Energy explosion depending on what version you're into)

It did...its stating that since we are talking screen feats, the fact that very nearly everyone who faces McClane dies whether one on one, or what have you, so its likely that Rorschash will either not get the chance, or if he does, it might not be enough.

You rightly state that Rorschach breaks the bones of regular fodder. Sure. No argument there.

But McClane's ridiculous proven-onscreen many times over legendary damage soak/stamina is gonna be more that the sorts of low grade opposition that got their arms broke....

I still think its a strong possibility McClane can stay in it long enough to either beat the beans outta Rorschach, or will luck out.

McClane is not gonna beat Rorschach with his fists. He is gonna beat Rorschach with a frying pan to the head, or a screwdriver to the throat, or whatever else he can get his hands on.

Rorschach's best chance is to take Mac out quick, in the first 30ish seconds. In a straight up H2H battle, with no foreign objects around? Mac gets pwned. But that's not the case here.

How'd you know he wouldn't just punch Rorschach in the throat (Even accidentally with his luck) then go in search of some asprin? Yeah you're probably right, it is his M.O...

Well even then, Rorscach would really be hard pressed to against a man who if he were anymore durable/damage soaky/stamina-ey, you'd suspect was manufactured by Cyberdyne... 😛

Rorschach is too well versed in H2H combat for mac to outfight him straight up. Mac is gonna need to use his surroundings here. Which is why I placed the fight in the Comedian's apartment.

[QUOTE=13056223]Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Not a god. Percieved as a god.

Would a god have fallen for the old tachyon particle interference gag like that? 😉

I actually do think he coulda possibly got up. Especially in comic book physics/PIS universe like if hes in the watchmen universe.

I wonder how well Rorschach woulda held up in non-comicbook New York/LA. He was still human and all humans who try killing McClane tend to die.. [/QUOTE

Perceived as or is, the difference here is slight when we're considering that he can kill someone with mere thought.

there is no comic book physics in Watchmen because the Watchmen are not superheros. The world that John McClane resides in probably, closer resembles comic book physics. Either way, even if their worlds gave them specific abilities you cannot take those abilities away because it undermines the reason for debate. Although, we don't need to argue this because the fact still remains...,both, John McClane and Ink Dots are both mere men with with feats that are not superhuman. do they get lucky? Maybe but that's not superhuman.

Like Rj stated above, i believe Ink Dots is an another league of hand to hand combat and durability. McClane might be able to better utilize his surroundings which could bag him a win but i don't think so and i don't think that would even be enough to beat Ink Dots.

Originally posted by dadudemon
Well...top tier of what?

Rorschach tools him. Rorschach is just as good as bending the enviorment to his advantage as McClane is. Not to mention he is smarter, physically superior, more ruthless, and alot more skilled in H2H combat, plus is better with stealth. Rorschach would defeat Hans and his goons in Nakatomi easier than McClane did.

Originally posted by Darth Martin

Rorschach is just as good as bending the enviorment to his advantage as McClane is.

Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Rorschach is too well versed in H2H combat for mac to outfight him straight up. Mac is gonna need to use his surroundings here. Which is why I placed the fight in the Comedian's apartment.

do u remember everything in comedian's apartment?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
It did...its stating that since we are talking screen feats, the fact that very nearly everyone who faces McClane dies whether one on one, or what have you, so its likely that Rorschash will either not get the chance, or if he does, it might not be enough.

You rightly state that Rorschach breaks the bones of regular fodder. Sure. No argument there.

But McClane's ridiculous proven-onscreen many times over legendary damage soak/stamina is gonna be more that the sorts of low grade opposition that got their arms broke....

I still think its a strong possibility McClane can stay in it long enough to either beat the beans outta Rorschach, or will luck out.

it doesn't matter how good mcclane is against anybody if he didnt fight a guy who breaks bones like cheetos...fist fight rorshach breaks his bones...mcclane has knife rorshach disarms him breaks his bones...mcclane just isnt superhuman

Originally posted by jinXed by JaNx
[QUOTE=13056223]Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
[B]Not a god. Percieved as a god.

Would a god have fallen for the old tachyon particle interference gag like that? 😉

I actually do think he coulda possibly got up. Especially in comic book physics/PIS universe like if hes in the watchmen universe.

I wonder how well Rorschach woulda held up in non-comicbook New York/LA. He was still human and all humans who try killing McClane tend to die.. [/QUOTE

Perceived as or is, the difference here is slight when we're considering that he can kill someone with mere thought.

there is no comic book physics in Watchmen because the Watchmen are not superheros. The world that John McClane resides in probably, closer resembles comic book physics. Either way, even if their worlds gave them specific abilities you cannot take those abilities away because it undermines the reason for debate. Although, we don't need to argue this because the fact still remains...,both, John McClane and Ink Dots are both mere men with with feats that are not superhuman. do they get lucky? Maybe but that's not superhuman.
[/B]

Punching or kicking/ramming someone's head through a toilet basin is realistic? And the sited feat of breaking bones like twigs?
Manhatten was a the world's first superhero according to the original Nightowl in his book.

Im not trying to take away screenfeats.
Just trying to get the classification straight here.

Originally posted by BruceSkywalker
do u remember everything in comedian's apartment?

Originally posted by Sadako of Girth
Punching or kicking/ramming someone's head through a toilet basin is realistic? And the sited feat of breaking bones like twigs?
Manhatten was a the world's first superhero according to the original Nightowl in his book.

Im not trying to take away screenfeats.
Just trying to get the classification straight here.

McClane and Rory both go at it, after a while, McClane is able to soak up more damage and gains the upper hand. Just when he is about to finish Rory off, he tries to make a last smartass quip. Seizing on the opportunity, Rory catches him off guard and snaps his neck.

Just kidding.

Rorschach wins hands down. McClane is just an above average brawler with high damage soak, he'll get torn apart by elite martial artists.