Are soldiers 'heroes'

Originally posted by King Castle
so you guys ride bikes excellently during PT?
wear sneakers excellently in uniform?
Excellently mistakenly bomb your ally and fellow troops?

Wow so you're calling out a few airman like that's all of us, coming from the guy who used to be in the Marines, I guess you guys have honor and courage when you're killing each other, starting drunken fights in bars for no reason, and beating your spouses?

For one I have never ridden a bike during pt
I have never worn sneakers in uniform, only steel toed boots
And I have never handled a bomb, though I have been woken up in the desert because someone left a box outside our group of tents, and it was 2100 and I had to be up by 2300

Soldiers are still heroes

Soldiers kill, drink, fight and beat spouses as well. Sometimes for no reason worth to note.

And why did you involve time in all of this? It has nothing to do with what he said.

Soldiers aren't heroes. People are heroes, and some of those people are soldiers.

He was saying that airman don't follow their creed because we have people on profile so they ride bikes on pt, and we have people with an injured foot or ankle and they wear sneakers in uniform, and the guys who bombed their fellow airman. He was pointing out that all airman did not follow thwir creed and I was pointing out nither did Marines. Airman are notorius for what he pointed out, but the Marines are notorius for being violent towards others including allies. I involved time because I was telling a short story about being awoken by a bomb. I still think soldiers are heroes but as I said before you do have a few bad apples. People are heroes too. Anyone who puts their life in danger for others knowing the risk is a hero no matter who.

People will really realize that, when they need the help of soldiers, and a squadron is sent in. Do you think that people in Sudan are saying the U.S. should be air dropping us food and medical supplies because it's their fault we're in this mess, or are they just saying Thank-you and praying to whom ever they pray to.

You lose your heroism the moment you do something because you have to.

I don't agree, I think if you sign up for the military or any risky job you're a hero until you do something stupid.

So firefighters aren't heroes when they save people from burning buildings because that's their jobs, it's in the description. I think you're not a hero when you could have done something to help someone and you refused. Like if a firefighter said it was too dangerous to save someone, but it wasn't true, or something similar to that.

Were you forced to sign up for the military, or those other risky jobs you are thinking about?

No and thats why I feel I'm a hero. I don't have to join the military at a time of war, if you don't feel that way then that's your opinion. I feel good when I'm in my blues and I have someone walk by me and just say Thank you for what you do. You may not be one of those people, but their is always two different views

You really ain't the sharpest of tools.

If you volunteered for the army, if you signed up on own accord, then you could (As I already mentioned two posts ago) just as well be a hero. My point is that the moment you do something because you have to, you lose your heroism. Since you didn't HAVE TO join the army, that entitles you heroism for the sole reason of you standing up for those who can't stand up for themselves.

The fact that I oppose the military is not a topic to be discussed here, since it's irrelevant to my perspective of heroism.

You previous spoke of how you lose freedom when you join the army, and that you must follow orders or there'll be Hell to pay. That you aren't allowed to stand for what you believe in, and that you must follow order.

That's what make me question your heroism, and nothing else. My position on the army is utterly irrelevant. You NEVER lose your freedom. All you can do is give it away. When you've made that choice, that you aren't free, that's when you stop being a hero to me.

"I just followed orders" is one of the worst ideas in my world, because no matter what orders you have been given, it's you that pull the trigger and not those that give the orders. If you kill someone, because it's expected of you, then it's still you killing that individual and not the authority or commander that expect you to do it.

My point, and I'll make this really simple, is:

You stop being a hero, when you do something "because you have to". You don't HAVE TO do anything. You don't have to guard that door, you don't have to charge that house, you don't have to pull that trigger. Many soldiers lose sight of this, and are too afraid to be punished.

The same applies to everyday situations, but right now we're talking about soldiers.

Well in my situation, I'm not in the Army. I'm in the Air Force. Now with just following orders if they tell me to guard a post, and a civilian comes up, then he has to follow my orders, because I don't know if he's a threat. If he doesn't follow my orders and keeps approaching then I have the right to shoot on sight. Does that make you a hero, because you killed a man that didn't look like a threat but you had to follow orders. The war in the middle east, is it right for me not to go even if I believe it's wrong. Does that make me less of a hero?

When you say the moment I have to do something because I was ordered to makes me less of a hero baffles me. If I supply a jet fuel to send food to a needy country, I should not be less of a hero because I was ordered to. It's not like I'm going to fuel up a jet on my own free will, that doesn't belong to me.

Losing Freedoms is something that comes with the job, unless the person is like you and doesn't care about being punished. I know my squadron doesn't give freedom of speech and protest, maybe others are different. There are other freedoms we lose as well, but we are allowed to practice any religion.

You NEVER lose your freedom. Losing your freedom does never come with any job. It's the delusion of loss that you hold onto. You have the right to do anything. It's the fear of punishment that make you think you don't have freedom.

Were you speaking false when you spoke to someone other than me? If you didn't, it doesn't matter if you spoke to me or someone else: You said it.

Now, let me try to water this out as much as possible for you to understand: If you do an act of heroism because you have to (Ordered to), something you wouldn't otherwise have done, you ain't the hero. You assume the delusion of heroism, while the true hero is the one that told you to do it. This is because you executed his will, and not your own. If you would had taken the initiative to this action, then that makes you a hero.

To provide a jet with fuel is not heroism, it's common sense. There's a notable difference between not doing nothing, and being actively helpful.
Just because you signed up in the army with good intentions, doesn't mean everything good that's done that involve you is heroism from your part. It's just your arrogance and craving for favor that creed it so.

Your first example there doesn't make much sense. If you shoot that civilian, you can't call yourself a hero. Even if the civilian was armed, and hostile, you ain't a hero for killing it. You're a killer, and while it's not quite that black and white, taking the life of another to protect your own does not make you a hero. You ain't that important. Whatever was behind that door you were guarding, in addition, is not of as high importance as a human life.

I personally can't comprehend the comparison of a human life to material value. To view that door, and the content behind it, as reason enough to kill a seemingly unhostile enemy, is not heroism. Heck, it's not even humane. The civilian you shoot doesn't have to follow your orders, because WEAPON and POWER does NOT mean AUTHORITY. For all you know, this civilian didn't understand the order you was giving it (Linguistic or some other comprehensive difficulty), and upon investigating its corpse, you could just as well find out that she wanted to give you a flower as thank you for your services for her country.

Well going to my example, if I don't shoot the civilian and he has a bomb, then it would be my fault that he got past the perimeter. So I guess either way I'm not a hero (although that has never happened to me just hypothetical) So I'm not a hero because I killed someone to protect myself and maybe members of my squadron as well. Or if you're using the door example, then nothing behind the door is as important as human life, even if it was something that severly compromised the mission?

The civilian I shoot has to follow any orders when approaching a military installation. You don't just stroll up to someone in a hostile environment to give them a flower, and think it's ok not to follow orders. Now if I'm in a country that no one speaks English, then I will be informed of how to say stop or halt in that language. With that being said, I would tell the person stop before anything. If he or she follows my orders there, I can easily call in for a translator unless that civilian knows the duress word to approach me.

I would like to see you stroll up to a military base in a hostile environment or foreign country, and not follow any orders given to you.

You're confusing heroism with right and authority.

You and the squad you saved agreed to go into a dangerous zone. If you save the lives that by choice put themselves in danger (You included), you aren't a hero. You simply balanced the action out.

If I throw a kitten up into a tree, and then save it, I'm not a hero. I only barely balance the act out, by fixing the situation I myself created.

I wouldn't walk up to any military base under near any situation, regardless of intentions, but that's irrelevant, so stop bringing me as an individual into the discussion. I'm talking about generic situations, and not situations that are likely to happen to either one of us.

If a young child came walking towards you, when you guarded that door, would you shoot it? Children are notorious for their nature of not paying much attention to what's asked of them.

I'm just trying to get perspective here. And an idea of what your idea of heroism is. Does maybe saving your squad outweigh refraining from shooting the potentially not dangerous child in terms of heroism?

wow.. 14 to 7 saying not a hero... that paints a bit of a pall on this forum, now doesn't it?

It's a very odd question. It assumes all soldiers are alike. A friend of mine is a soldier and a hero in every sense of the word, but the same friend sometimes share stories from his service that dent the heroic appearance soldiers has had to me.

I've outgrown my soldier worship because of mentioned stories, but my friend and men like him are still heroes to me 🙂

Originally posted by truejedi
wow.. 14 to 7 saying not a hero... that paints a bit of a pall on this forum, now doesn't it?

Unless of course you think that simply signing up in the first place is courageous, in which case, yeah they'd all be heroes.

Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Until the individual actually does something heroic, they're not a hero. Soldiery is just one of those professions that presents more opportunities for heroism.

Unless of course you think that simply signing up in the first place is courageous, in which case, yeah they'd all be heroes.

It also presents more opportunity for raping and pillaging, torture, friendly fire etc. :-) Heroic?

considering your future is taken out of your hands the moment you sign up, they definitly have my respect for doing so. When they sign up, they are volunteering for every dangerous mission that they will be given. After the sign-up, the do whatever the guys in charge tells them to do.

Originally posted by truejedi
considering your future is taken out of your hands the moment you sign up, they definitly have my respect for doing so. When they sign up, they are volunteering for every dangerous mission that they will be given. After the sign-up, the do whatever the guys in charge tells them to do.

Originally posted by truejedi
wow.. 14 to 7 saying not a hero... that paints a bit of a pall on this forum, now doesn't it?