Annhilators vs Morrison JLA

Started by MONSTAR29 pages

Originally posted by Bentley
Ok, I'll try to put this in terms of the simplest maths. The Annihilators have:

BRB
Quasar
Surfer
Gladiator

while the JLA have:

Superman
Kyle
Martian Manhunter
Flash
Diana

Zauriel, Aquaman and Plasticman are more than enough to deal with Ronan if it ever comes to that.

The characters whose weaknesses can be exploited are:

Gladiator
Superman
Martian Manhunter

Even if we assume each team can take these fighters very fast using weakness exploitation the odds would still be equal in the number of heralds competing. It's obviously harder to aim at two herald level enemies and exploit their weaknesses than to aim at a single one -we can then start argue which characters can atatck the weaknesses of the others, but the amount of attackers and targets are among the same-.

The amount of real fast attackers is as follows:

Superman
Wonder Woman
Flash

Silver Surfer
Gladiator
Quasar (?)

As you see, once again the league not only holds its own but has the fastest character around.

You can argue that Surfer is the strongest herald in both teams, but even there, he's not taking down two heralds at once. He would be hard pressed even just against MM and Kal with weakness exploitation.

Bottomline, the JLA has every advantage here. People who want the Annihilators winning may as well say "Surfer solos" because he's the only factor in the Marvel team's favor.

An event of your making does not win it for the jla. None of that will happen when team one blast them to death. They dont have to engage. Explain to me how team 2 defend against all that energy raining down on their head. The battlefield itself will be destroyed and members of team 1 could stand around watching as over half of team 2 dies while safely tucked away in quasars shields waiting for the dust to clear.

Originally posted by Q99
Superman's freeze breath doesn't stop Diana, and she has her bracers to deflect ranged attacks. In melee, pretty much no herald-level has a particular advantage against her overall. Between high skill, reflexes, and weapons, that's her specialty.

Presumably they're only coming in to help after other Annihilators have fallen to being outnumbered in a fight.

Superman and gladiator are two different characters. If gladiator freeze breath can hold thor girl in place, I see no reason for it to fail on wondy.

I agree with wondys skill but let's not forget that glads has also mastered the shiar martial arts.

The annihilators aren't out numbered imo... they are even. At least 4 peeps right from the start of the fight from the jla could get one shotted and if mm doent phase right from the beginning, he is going to get taken out easily as well.

Originally posted by carver9
Superman and gladiator are two different characters. If gladiator freeze breath can hold thor girl in place, I see no reason for it to fail on wondy.

I agree with wondys skill but let's not forget that glads has also mastered the shiar martial arts.

The annihilators aren't out numbered imo... they are even. At least 4 peeps right from the start of the fight from the jla could get one shotted and if mm doent phase right from the beginning, he is going to get taken out easily as well.

Superman's freeze breath is more impressive.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
An event of your making does not win it for the jla. None of that will happen when team one blast them to death. They dont have to engage. Explain to me how team 2 defend against all that energy raining down on their head. The battlefield itself will be destroyed and members of team 1 could stand around watching as over half of team 2 dies while safely tucked away in quasars shields waiting for the dust to clear.

Or they shield themselves in Kyle's shield? Honestly, the Annis have zero advantage here...

Carver:

Originally posted by Bentley
Your arguments only work if JLA's superior numbers, faster mobility and experience as a team is completely ignored. You're dismissing the most important thing about a team battle...
Originally posted by carver9

The annihilators aren't out numbered imo... they are even. At least 4 peeps right from the start of the fight from the jla could get one shotted and if mm doent phase right from the beginning, he is going to get taken out easily as well.

The JLA has 5 Herald Level types and two more people who are useful directly (Zauriel and Plas), then Aquaman who's telepathy is useful even if he can't physically do much.

MM doesn't have to phase from the beginning, because if fire starts, one of the other four herald level types is going to go for who's making it, and so on.

They're covering each other, don't overlook teamwork and the power of distraction. If the Annihilators are all focusing on one-shotting the weaker members, that means they are also not focusing on the stronger members and get to start out being plowed by the JLA's strongest attacks. If the Annihilators are focusing on the stronger members, then the weaker members have a chance to be useful. Either way they are an advantage, the Annihilators don't get to simply pick off a weak member as if it was a 1-on-1 fight because they are outnumbered, that's a luxury that only happens, at best, in even matches.

Originally posted by Bentley
Or they shield themselves in Kyle's shield? Honestly, the Annis have zero advantage here...
You think Kyle's shields can stop surfer or bills hammer? I dont think they would want to be piled up together seeing as to where bill or surfer could send them all. How long can kyle hold up his shield? Because the minute it gets destroyed or fail, bill, surfer and ronan will have them all in one spot IF they are still there and not in a black hole or red giant. To many options for the annis.

Thing is if this is Morrisons JLA they will fight like morons.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
You think Kyle's shields can stop surfer or bills hammer? I dont think they would want to be piled up together seeing as to where bill or surfer could send them all. How long can kyle hold up his shield? Because the minute it gets destroyed or fail, bill, surfer and ronan will have them all in one spot IF they are still there and not in a black hole or red giant. To many options for the annis.

Any argument which supposes the outnumbered Annihilators are going to dictate the pace of this battle gladly ignores CIS, team strategies and the powerlevels of both teams.

Originally posted by Bentley
Any argument which supposes the outnumbered Annihilators are going to dictate the pace of this battle gladly ignores CIS, team strategies and the powerlevels of both teams.
Outnumbered for how long? Half a second? All of team 2 together could not muster up enough energy blast to accomplish anything close to being a threat. Team 1 can blast planets apart, create black holes, transmute matter, create matter.. And thats just the tip of the iceburg. Team JLA cannot compete with that because they have a few more members who wont be around long anyway. Team 1 stomps.

Jla win

Originally posted by Deadline
Thing is if this is Morrisons JLA they will fight like morons.

How?

Originally posted by MONSTAR
Outnumbered for how long? Half a second? All of team 2 together could not muster up enough energy blast to accomplish anything close to being a threat.

BRB won't last half a second against Wally nor Glads against J'onz, how many people will be koed by then? 😉

(By the way, MM's telepathy is more of a ranged threat than most of the blasts Glads or Ronan had ever shown)

Originally posted by MONSTAR
Team 1 can blast planets apart, create black holes, transmute matter, create matter.. And thats just the tip of the iceburg. Team JLA cannot compete with that because they have a few more members who wont be around long anyway.

You probably mean Surfer... Nice how you want Wendell and Gladiator to keep up with Surfer when they clearly cannot compete with Kal nor Diana.

I'll repeat this for people not paying attention: THIS BATTLE ISN'T JUST ABOUT SURFER, HE'S JUST ONE CHARACTER, HE WON'T BEAT FIVE HERALDS ON HIS LONESOME.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
Team 1 stomps.

Now, this is utterly unbelievable and disgusting 😘

Seriously, you can believe team 1 wins, but it won't be an stomp in any sense.

You just lost the credibility that kept me discussing with you 😐

Originally posted by MONSTAR
Outnumbered for how long? Half a second?

Considering they have an equal number of herald levelers as the Annihilators, significantly longer.

It's not like Flash couldn't save anyone targeted by an Annihilator by zipping to somewhere else, or GL block for them, or any of the Herald Level JLA people just lay into their opponents while they try that.

It's not like Zauriel or Plastic Man are particularly fragile, nor is Aquaman unused to dodging beings significantly more powerful than himself in a large melee. Since the Annihilator will have a herald-level foe in their face pretty much immediately, they only need to survive that half a second, then they can start looking how to hurt, annoy, or distract someone in combat with one of their stronger allies.

All of team 2 together could not muster up enough energy blast to accomplish anything close to being a threat. Team 1 can blast planets apart, create black holes, transmute matter, create matter.. And thats just the tip of the iceburg. Team JLA cannot compete with that because they have a few more members who wont be around long anyway. Team 1 stomps. [/B]

As opposed to the JLA side's containing Supernovas, holding black holes bare handed, slaying gods... and that's just the tip of the iceburg.

You think Kyle's shields can stop surfer or bills hammer? I dont think they would want to be piled up together seeing as to where bill or surfer could send them all. How long can kyle hold up his shield? Because the minute it gets destroyed or fail, bill, surfer and ronan will have them all in one spot IF they are still there and not in a black hole or red giant. To many options for the annis.

Yes, the guy can contain Supernovas and has trapped the entire CSA before, not to mention containing Imperiex, a Galaxy Buster, for a short time, all in this era. He can, temporarily at least, put up shields that'll hold against practically anything.

And Annihilators piling up on a single member of the JLA? Bad idea. Sure, they could all combine and take down Kyle no question... while meanwhile they're turing their back to Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Flash, and probably lose 2-3 of their number for the effort. Sounds like a good trade for the JLA.

The thing about the 'JLA piles a few characters on one Annihilator' is they can do that without leaving any Annihilator unengaged. The reverse is not true.

Originally posted by Deadline
Thing is if this is Morrisons JLA they will fight like morons.

Why? They fought pretty well as a team against all kinds of foes.

Originally posted by Q99

Why? They fought pretty well as a team against all kinds of foes.

MM and Aquaman hardly uses telepathy. Flash gets punked alot etc.

Originally posted by Bentley
BRB won't last half a second against Wally nor Glads against J'onz, how many people will be koed by then? 😉

(By the way, MM's telepathy is more of a ranged threat than most of the blasts Glads or Ronan had ever shown)

You probably mean Surfer... Nice how you want Wendell and Gladiator to keep up with Surfer when they clearly cannot compete with Kal nor Diana.

I'll repeat this for people not paying attention: THIS BATTLE ISN'T JUST ABOUT SURFER, HE'S JUST ONE CHARACTER, HE WON'T BEAT FIVE HERALDS ON HIS LONESOME.

Now, this is utterly unbelievable and disgusting 😘

Seriously, you can believe team 1 wins, but it won't be an stomp in any sense.

You just lost the credibility that kept me discussing with you 😐

On the day that Kal or diana destroy a planet with strength, you please let me know. Gladiator has proven hes stronger and faster than both Kal and diana. Five heralds? Do you think they are equal to galactus heralds in power? Abilities? Galactus heralds wreck planets, no one on team 2 can do that strength wise or energy wise. And you say I lost any credibility?? Yet you make a statement like that? Have a nice day.

Originally posted by Q99
Considering they have an equal number of herald levelers as the Annihilators, significantly longer.

It's not like Flash couldn't save anyone targeted by an Annihilator by zipping to somewhere else, or GL block for them, or any of the Herald Level JLA people just lay into their opponents while they try that.

It's not like Zauriel or Plastic Man are particularly fragile, nor is Aquaman unused to dodging beings significantly more powerful than himself in a large melee. Since the Annihilator will have a herald-level foe in their face pretty much immediately, they only need to survive that half a second, then they can start looking how to hurt, annoy, or distract someone in combat with one of their stronger allies.

As opposed to the JLA side's containing Supernovas, holding black holes bare handed, slaying gods... and that's just the tip of the iceburg.

Yes, the guy can contain Supernovas and has trapped the entire CSA before, not to mention containing Imperiex, a Galaxy Buster, for a short time, all in this era. He can, temporarily at least, put up shields that'll hold against practically anything.

And Annihilators piling up on a single member of the JLA? Bad idea. Sure, they could all combine and take down Kyle no question... while meanwhile they're turing their back to Superman, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Flash, and probably lose 2-3 of their number for the effort. Sounds like a good trade for the JLA.

The thing about the 'JLA piles a few characters on one Annihilator' is they can do that without leaving any Annihilator unengaged. The reverse is not true.

[quote=Deadline]Thing is if this is Morrisons JLA they will fight like morons.

Why? They fought pretty well as a team against all kinds of foes. [/QUOTE] You had my attention until you said it would take the whole team of annihilators to take down kyle and tried to imply that current superman held a black hole in his hands.

Originally posted by Deadline
MM and Aquaman hardly uses telepathy. Flash gets punked alot etc.

PIS is off.

Originally posted by MONSTAR
You had my attention until you said it would take the whole team of annihilators to take down kyle and tried to imply that current superman held a black hole in his hands.

it was current superman (that's since been upgraded) that performed the black hole feat.

Originally posted by -Pr-
PIS is off.

CIS (excluding Flash..maybe)?

Originally posted by Deadline
CIS (excluding Flash..maybe)?

CIS being on doesn't make him fight like an idiot, though. It just makes him less likely to IMP from the get-go.