Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI disagree.
Flash traveling so fast that Superman's at a standstill is far more impressive than anything I've seen Surfer do.Oh. Iight, I see where the confusion came from. The feat I referenced happened during the one million story arc, but it was done by mainstream Flash. The Justice League had traveled into the far fauture.
So that's a no.
You brought this feat up more than once. I'm confused. Did you not notice the Infinity Gauntlet on his hand?
It was volume 2, and it came out in like 1999.
Ah ok. I hadn't read that.
How fast do you think he'd fly in those circumstances ?
His reaction time wasn't amped at all. he in fact stated he wouldn't see his opponents moves before they happened while depowering himself. he retained limitless power but was fighting at his normal reaction time.
I might run and do a little shopping later I will find these comics and leaf through them if I can.
Originally posted by quanchi112
I disagree.Ah ok. I hadn't read that.
How fast do you think he'd fly in those circumstances ?
His reaction time wasn't amped at all. he in fact stated he wouldn't see his opponents moves before they happened while depowering himself. he retained limitless power but was fighting at his normal reaction time.
I might run and do a little shopping later I will find these comics and leaf through them if I can.
You're welcome to. I think Surfer's somewhat faster than Clark in travel speed but that's it.
It's all good.
Do you have the scans? I don't have the comic on hand. All I remember is him flying right at Thanos while pissed. I just found it strange that it was used as a conclusive faster than light feat for the Titan when no mention of faster than light speed was given.
He didn't have omniscience. He could have still amped himself in other aspects. Limitless power but he most definitely didn't amp up his reaction time.
Cool.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusSurfer also fights while traveling though so for him it's fight speed as well.
You're welcome to. I think Surfer's somewhat faster than Clark in travel speed but that's it.It's all good.
Do you have the scans? I don't have the comic on hand. All I remember is him flying right at Thanos while pissed. I just found it strange that it was used as a conclusive faster than light feat for the Titan when no mention of faster than light speed was given.
He didn't have omniscience. He could have still amped himself in other aspects. Limitless power but he most definitely didn't amp up his reaction time.
Cool.
Yes, he flew as Thanos while pissed and in a bio Fallen one's speed were trans light. I feel he'd be at optimum speed in this situation but it's never specifically stated.
He stated he couldn't see his opponents next moves and was getting blindsided left and right mainly due to overconfidence by spiderman and wolverine.
What kind of show would he be putting on for mistress death if he amped his reaction time which is completely incorrect watching the fight play out and all the characters just wailing on him from all different sides.
He moved while fighting another character and moved out of the way. All he needs to do here is move and the shields go up.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I already posted the scan where Wally stated he could throw a thousand infinite mass punches before the White Martian could blink.
That was one punch, tho. He said he COULD but he never demonstrated it as a feat. Would have been different if he actually DID punch him with 1000 IMPs.
Also, from the expression of the white martian it actually looked like he saw that single punch coming.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Show me Surfer doing anything that impressive in terms of combat speed.
Not saying that the Surfer is more impressive than the Flash (hell I think Zoom/Flash would be a blur to the Surfer). Just saying he can react to them.
Milliseconds are slow. Surfer has been shown to have nanosecond reaction speed.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Never heard of that. Issue number?
I rechecked the issue. Looks like he HAD a transport device to get back to Earth. LOL. My mistake. 🙂 Cancel that. The world WAS completely frozen when Makkari was moving around it, tho.
http://img121.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24391_Quasar_58_018_122_692lo.jpg
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
That was one punch, tho. He said he COULD but he never demonstrated it as a feat. Would have been different if he actually DID punch him with 1000 IMPs.Also, from the expression of the white martian it actually looked like he saw that single punch coming.
Haha wow. Flash said he could throw a thousand infinite mass punches in the blink of an eye. We've seen Flash throw much more than a thousand punches in moments. But since we've never seen Flash throw a thousand infinite mass punches specifically, it's in doubt.
The desperation is amusing.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not saying that the Surfer is more impressive than the Flash (hell I think Zoom/Flash) would be a blur to the Surfer. Just saying he can react to them.Milliseconds are slow. Surfer has been shown to have nanosecond reaction speed.
http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/48/marvelcomicspresents001fk4.jpg
It'll mean shit against Wally and Zoom. Wally can think/operate to the attosecond and even went as far as the zeptosecond at one point I believe.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I rechecked the issue. Looks like he HAD a transport device to get back to Earth. LOL. My mistake. 🙂 Cancel that. The world WAS completely frozen when Makkari was moving around it, tho.http://img121.imagevenue.com/img.php?image=24391_Quasar_58_018_122_692lo.jpg
So nothing particularly impressive.
Zepto/Septo-second
Originally posted by quanchi112
Surfer also fights while traveling though so for him it's fight speed as well.
Okay?
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, he flew as Thanos while pissed and in a bio Fallen one's speed were trans light. I feel he'd be at optimum speed in this situation but it's never specifically stated.
So you have nothing. At least nothing concrete.
Originally posted by quanchi112
He stated he couldn't see his opponents next moves and was getting blindsided left and right mainly due to overconfidence by spiderman and wolverine.
You don't see the flawed reasoning? He was caught off guard by much slower heroes, and yet he can move out of the way of a speeding Surfer.
Originally posted by quanchi112
What kind of show would he be putting on for mistress death if he amped his reaction time which is completely incorrect watching the fight play out and all the characters just wailing on him from all different sides.He moved while fighting another character and moved out of the way. All he needs to do here is move and the shields go up.
Why would amping his reaction time suddenly take away from the sport? He was just mopping the floor with 99% of the heroes there. It wasn't a show but a beatdown.
Not to mention keeping the Infinity Gauntlet would take precedence over the little fight.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Zepto/Septo-secondOkay?
So you have nothing. At least nothing concrete.
You don't see the flawed reasoning? He was caught off guard by much slower heroes, and yet he can move out of the way of a speeding Surfer.
Why would amping his reaction time suddenly take away from the sport? He was just mopping the floor with 99% of the heroes there. It wasn't a show but a beatdown.
Not to mention keeping the Infinity Gauntlet would take precedence over the little fight.
Exactly how fast is Flash reacting at septoseconds?
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha wow. Flash said he could throw a thousand infinite mass punches in the blink of an eye. We've seen Flash throw much more than a thousand punches in moments. But since we've never seen Flash throw a thousand infinite mass punches specifically, it's in doubt.
It's not desperation, dude. It's basic debating logic. Being able to do two distinct things individually doesn't translate to being able to do two distinct things simultaneously.
Also, saying you can do something doesn't translate to doing it. And unless we see him do a 1000 IMPs in a second, then I don't see why him saying that he can punch many times can be considered evidence that he can. Heck, it can even be debated that his "punches before he can blink" comment can be translated to regular punches and not IMPs as he never specifically mentioned 1000 IMPS in his comment.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
It'll mean shit against Wally and Zoom. Wally can think/operate to the attosecond and even went as far as the zeptosecond at one point I believe.
I agree. Again, let me reiterate that Zoom and Flash are MUCH MUCH faster than the Surfer in terms of reaction time and that they'd be a blur to the Surfer.
But I was only debating on the context of the "1000 punches a second" feat. It's really not impressive given the ppl we're debating about.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
So nothing particularly impressive.
World is still frozen. Duplicates the impressiveness of the "raindrops are frozen" feat you posted. If you think that isn't impressive, then the feat you posted isn't impressive either. 🙂
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
It's not desperation, dude. It's basic debating logic. Being able to do two distinct things individually doesn't translate to being able to do two distinct things simultaneously.Also, saying you can do something doesn't translate to doing it. And unless we see him do a 1000 IMPs in a second, then I don't see why it can be considered evidence that he can.
They are not two distinct things. The only difference between an infinite mass punch and a regular punch is that Flash allows real world affects to apply to him, which as we've seen does not hinder him at all. Hence, this is asinine.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I agree. Again, let me reiterate that Zoom and Flash are MUCH MUCH faster than the Surfer in terms of reaction time and that they'd be a blur to the Surfer.But I was only debating on the context of the "1000 punches a second" feat. It's really not impressive given the ppl we're debating about.
Okay.
I think Wally could throw a lot more than a thousand punches per second. I'd say he could throw billions of punches etc. without any problem.
Of course since it's never happened -the most punches I think his thrown are 5000 in a second- people won't accept it, despite the fact that the speed his been shown to run and operate at more than justifies such claims. I can understand their position, but I'm sure these say same people will be for this type of reasoning when it favors them.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
World is still frozen. Duplicates the impressiveness of the "raindrops are frozen" feat you posted. If you think that isn't impressive, then the feat you posted isn't impressive either. 🙂
I didn't post that to demonstrate the speed edge but rather the way Wally's mind operates. He can operate at that level like consistently.
Wally being able to pull out entire hours -or perhaps even days- in between seconds impresses me much more than either of those feats.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
They are not two distinct things. The only difference between an infinite mass punch and a regular punch is that Flash allows real world affects to apply to him, which as we've seen does not hinder him at all. Hence, this is asinine.
Not really. A regular person can throw like 2 jabs in a second but can't thrown that many power punches within that span of time. Distinct things.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Okay.I think Wally could throw a lot more than a thousand punches per second. I'd say he could throw billions of punches etc. without any problem.
Of course since it's never happened -the most punches I think his thrown are 5000 in a second- people won't accept it, despite the fact that the speed his been shown to run and operate at more than justifies such claims. I can understand their position, but I'm sure these say same people will be for this type of reasoning when it favors them.
As a matter of opnion and logical inference, he prolly could. But we need to see it in the form of a feat before we can use it as definitive proof.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
I didn't post that to demonstrate the speed edge but rather the way Wally's mind operates. He can operate at that level like consistently.Wally being able to pull out entire hours -or perhaps even days- in between seconds impresses me much more than either of those feats.
Makarri was kind stuck in the same thing during that period (he couldn't even get out of it). But I understand your logic here and agree in a way.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not really. A regular person can throw like 2 jabs in a second but can't thrown that many power punches within that span of time. Distinct things.
facepalm Wally doesn't hit that hard because he puts more power behind his punches. He hits that hard because he consciously lets real world affects apply. Faulty analogy. What don't you understand?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
As a matter of opnion and logical inference, he prolly could. But we need to see it in the form of a feat before we can use it as definitive proof.
Fine.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalm Wally doesn't hit that hard because he puts more power behind his punches. He hits that hard because he consciously lets real world affects apply. Faulty analogy. What don't you understand?
Both are distinct. To pepper a target with IMPs he needs to be close to light speed. Looks like he needs to be running to attain these speeds (from the scans where he DID do it). Running punches are hard to "pepper" an opponent with. Don't really understand comic physics, tbh. But these points CAN be argued. That is why evidence in terms of scans are required.
Originally posted by Rage.Of.OlympusI have the Surfer feat for one and secondly I have Thanos easily reacting with Fallen one traveling at him. You call that nothing I call that evidence.
Zepto/Septo-secondOkay?
So you have nothing. At least nothing concrete.
You don't see the flawed reasoning? He was caught off guard by much slower heroes, and yet he can move out of the way of a speeding Surfer.
Why would amping his reaction time suddenly take away from the sport? He was just mopping the floor with 99% of the heroes there. It wasn't a show but a beatdown.
Not to mention keeping the Infinity Gauntlet would take precedence over the little fight.
Thanos was arrogant against the heroes and his senses perceived at the last possible moment the threat of the Surfer. When he had to react he did so. That's like the flash arguers dismissing all instances of him getting tagged while highlighting all his speed feats.
He stated he couldn't see their moves before they happened. Retaining limitless power doesn't mean amping his reflexes. The comic doesn't point to it nor does common sense when applied to the comic.
If his senses were amped he'd be bobbing and weaving the entire time. You have nothing and you realize it.
He retained limitless power and restored his senses immediately after this preparing for the heavyweights.
Feat stands and shows Thanos can easily move himself to put up a shield. Still no proof the flash or zoom can beat someone of Surfer's magnitude let alone Thanos.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Both are distinct. To pepper a target with IMPs he needs to be close to light speed. Looks like he needs to be running to attain these speeds (from the scans where he DID do it). Running punches are hard to "pepper" an opponent with. Don't really understand comic physics, tbh. But these points CAN be argued. That is why evidence in terms of scans are required.
He does have to be close to light speed. However he can reach those speeds easily. Hence, to him there's no distinction.
Not really. Here his inches away from the Reverse Flash, and knocks him out with a punch packing the force of a White Dwarf Star because he was moving at the speed of light. No running around etc. required.
http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Flash/?action=view¤t=APunchLikeStar.jpg
