Surfer and Thanos vs Wally West and Zoom, no PIS, CIS, BFR, or BS Megamatch!!!

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have the Surfer feat for one and secondly I have Thanos easily reacting with Fallen one traveling at him. You call that nothing I call that evidence.

Which is easily debatable. You're assuming the Fallen One was zooming around at trans light speeds when nothing of the sort was indicated. So yes, you have nothing.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos was arrogant against the heroes and his senses perceived at the last possible moment the threat of the Surfer. When he had to react he did so. That's like the flash arguers dismissing all instances of him getting tagged while highlighting all his speed feats.

He stated he couldn't see their moves before they happened. Retaining limitless power doesn't mean amping his reflexes. The comic doesn't point to it nor does common sense when applied to the comic.

If his senses were amped he'd be bobbing and weaving the entire time. You have nothing and you realize it.

He retained limitless power and restored his senses immediately after this preparing for the heavyweights.

Again, Thanos deprived himself of omniscience etc. This does not mean that he can't amp his reflexes or speed when the moment is dire.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Feat stands and shows Thanos can easily move himself to put up a shield. Still no proof the flash or zoom can beat someone of Surfer's magnitude let alone Thanos.

Lulz. You can keep on thinking whatever you like.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He does have to be close to light speed. However he can reach those speeds easily. Hence, to him there's no distinction.

Not really. Here his inches away from the Reverse Flash, and knocks him out with a punch packing the force of a White Dwarf Star because he was moving at the speed of light. No running around etc. required.

http://s38.photobucket.com/albums/e139/RageOfTheGod/Flash/?action=view&current=APunchLikeStar.jpg

Hm. Admittedly, that scan does point out to him being able to IMP at short range.

However, like I said, that's still a single punch. Arguments like "it takes a lot out of him to IMP" to "he needs to gather enough energy to IMP" can be made as long as there is no definitive proof that he's able to pepper targets with 1000s of IMPs.

My point has always been that you NEED show on-panel evidence before you can claim that an ability can be used in a debate.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Hm. Admittedly, that scan does point out to him being able to IMP at short range.

However, like I said, that's still a single punch. Arguments like "it takes a lot out of him to IMP" to "he needs to gather enough energy to IMP" can be made as long as there is no definitive proof that he's able to pepper targets with 1000s of IMPs.

My point has always been that you NEED show on-panel evidence before you can claim that an ability can be used in a debate.

facepalm

Clearly you're either dense, desperate, or both. Or maybe you're just being purposefully difficult. I don't particuraly care but this is my last post with you regarding the subject.

I already explained to you how the infinite mass punch works and why it would be almost just as easy for him to throw a thousand of infinite mass punches (Which Wally stated he could do in inner monologue no less) and a thousand regular punches.

Those arguments are asinine. There's absolutely no evidence that even hints doing an infinite mass punch takes a lot out of him or that he needs to gather a lot of energy. Quite the opposite actually. He just has to be at near light speed or faster.

You're acting as if I pulled this out of my ass.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
facepalm

Clearly you're either dense, desperate, or both. Or maybe you're just being purposefully difficult. I don't particuraly care but this is my last post with you regarding the subject.

I already explained to you how the infinite mass punch works and why it would be almost just as easy for him to throw a thousand of infinite mass punches (Which Wally stated he could do in inner monologue no less) and a thousand regular punches.

Those arguments are asinine. There's absolutely no evidence that even hints doing an infinite mass punch takes a lot out of him or that he needs to gather a lot of energy. Quite the opposite actually. He just has to be at near light speed or faster.

You're acting as if I pulled this out of my ass.

Not trying to be dense, desperate or difficult, dude (tons of D's here, I'm happy). I'm really not all that invested on who wins in this thread, but I DO think that one simply can't use inference as a form of proof, otherwise, (in extreme cases) super-versatile characters (like the Surfer) can be made to do just about anything. That is why we use actual proven on-panel feats to prove that certain abilities can be done, it's to keep the forum fair for all sides of debate.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Which is easily debatable. You're assuming the Fallen One was zooming around at trans light speeds when nothing of the sort was indicated. So yes, you have nothing.

Again, Thanos deprived himself of omniscience etc. This does not mean that he can't amp his reflexes or speed when the moment is dire.

Lulz. You can keep on thinking whatever you like.

There's no proof whatsoever he amped his reflexes. The on panel fighting also suggests you'd have to be somewhat slow to consider he was amping his reflexes during the melee brawl that took place.

It seems when it isn't stated on panel it's nothing but then again here you don't need on panel proof. In any event you want to neglect all argument for Thanos showing you to be a little unfair here. You can't have it both ways.

The scans back up my thoughts. I don't make things up.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I have common sense and given the situation it's more than reasonable to deduce he was going at max speed.

He was pissed off. I'll grant you that. That however isn't evidence that his flying at trans light speeds. If we tap into the pool of heroes, it doesn't even mean a character is using half the power at their disposal.

Originally posted by quanchi112
There's no proof whatsoever he amped his reflexes. The on panel fighting also suggests you'd have to be somewhat slow to consider he was amping his reflexes during the melee brawl that took place.

I saw Thanos do everything from amp his strength to grow in size. Even if he did see Surfer coming all by his lonesome, that doesn't mean he was fast enough to move out of the way on his own.

Originally posted by quanchi112
It seems when it isn't stated on panel it's nothing but then again here you don't need on panel proof. In any event you want to neglect all argument for Thanos showing you to be a little unfair here. You can't have it both ways.

I wondered when you were going to bring up this little tactic. Unfortunately for you, I'm not assuming Wally can throw out a thousand infinite mass punches etc. based on the fact that he can throw out a thousand regular punches but based on the fact that he said he can. On panel proof is present here.

You're assuming that the Fallen one was moving at faster than light speeds without any evidence. I don't think his even been shown to move that fast ever.

Originally posted by quanchi112
The scans back up my thoughts. I don't make things up.

Tell me again why Squirrel Girl kicking Thanos' ass isn't cannon again?

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
He was pissed off. I'll grant you that. That however isn't evidence that his flying at trans light speeds. If we tap into the pool of heroes, it doesn't even mean a character is using half the power at their disposal.

I saw Thanos do everything from amp his strength to grow in size. Even if he did see Surfer coming all by his lonesome, that doesn't mean he was fast enough to move out of the way on his own.

I wondered when you were going to bring up this little tactic. Unfortunately for you, I'm not assuming Wally can throw out a thousand infinite mass punches etc. based on the fact that he can throw out a thousand regular punches but based on the fact that he said he can. On panel proof is present here.

You're assuming that the Fallen one was moving at faster than light speeds without any evidence. I don't think his even been shown to move that fast ever.

Tell me again why Squirrel Girl kicking Thanos' ass isn't cannon again?

Thanos can react before he's beaten. The guy trades blow for blow with Odin yet you claim Flash can beat him before he even knows what is happening to him when we've seen the Surfer go far beyond the speed of light and miss ?

You dismiss this feat and hypocritically assume his reflexes were amped without any proof yet a reply up say since Fallen one's speed isn't mentioned I have nothing. By your own rationale you have nothing with the Surfer feat then. That's by far the better of the feats anyways. 🙂

Thanos has survived while weaker mind you a blast from Galactus intended to kill him yet you think Zoom or the Flash can defeat him inside of how many seconds ?

I already stated fallen one's speed was discussed in the ann bio.
That's going off topic and I have already explained my opinion on the matter thoroughly.

SG stomping thanos is canon.

End story.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus

I wondered when you were going to bring up this little tactic. Unfortunately for you, I'm not assuming Wally can throw out a thousand infinite mass punches etc. based on the fact that he can throw out a thousand regular punches but based on the fact that he said he can. On panel proof is present here.

I disagree about simple comments (w/o an act performed) being presented as conclusive on panel proof.

It's unfortunate that I don't give a shit what you think. I already explained the mechanics of the attack and why performing one or a thousand would be simple. Wally said he could do a thousand. Wally's shown that he can do a lot more than a thousand with regular punches. Wally hasn't shown any indication that an infinite mass punch takes more energy than a regular punch etc. This is a thread without CIS in play. Wally will be more than capable of doing a thousand infinite mass punches.

Question: Do you think Surfer can create a black hole in someone's eye?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Common sense leads me to believe he was going as fast as he can but whatever you seem hell bent on dismissing everything for thanos. That's on you.

You're lecturing me on common sense? Lulz. I don't think the Fallen One was going faster than light because there's no evidence or statement indicating that was his level of speed. Even if he was going faster than light, that doesn't mean Thanos can mount a defense against Wally or Zoom.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos can react before he's beaten. The guy trades blow for blow with Odin yet you claim Flash can beat him before he even knows what is happening to him when we've seen the Surfer go far beyond the speed of light and miss ?

Not at the speed Wally and Zoom move. Blow for blow with Odin? 😂

What fight did you read?

Exactly.

Originally posted by quanchi112
You dismiss this feat and hypocritically assume his reflexes were amped without any proof yet a reply up say since Fallen one's speed isn't mentioned I have nothing.

Without any proof? He had the Infinity Gauntlet on his hand, and we saw that he was more than willing to amp himself in various ways. And that was when he was amusing himself.

I'm not you Quan. There aren't going to be contradictions from post to post.

Originally posted by quanchi112
By your own rationale you have nothing with the Surfer feat then. That's by far the better of the feats anyways. 🙂

Lol, cool.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Thanos has survived while weaker mind you a blast from Galactus intended to kill him yet you think Zoom or the Flash can defeat him inside of how many seconds ?

It's your opinion that his more durable currently. Frankly, I'm not seeing it.

Let's forget that Thanos had his shields prepared during the encounter.

Seconds? I think it'll take less time than that.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already stated fallen one's speed was discussed in the ann bio.
That's going off topic and I have already explained my opinion on the matter thoroughly.

Lulz. He really hasn't gone faster than light on panel. Not even a mention?

Do you think Flash can perform a thousand infinite mass punch?

Haha.

@Rage

Yes, I am lecturing you on common sense since you seem to abandon it here.

If you can't provide evidence of a thousand infinite mass punches then it's no longer viable. It's ridiculous it's like a fighter throwing and taking the same amount of effort and quickness with an uppercut as opposed to a jab. It's ridiculous.

I have a bio stating he can go that fast. I said it's my opinion he was going that fast based on the situation but that's fine if you don't agree.

Yes, it does.

How fast do you think Surfer was going beyond the speed of light in that scene ? If Thanos can react while fighting someone else and being completely unaware of him why can't he react against two speedsters he's aware he's fighting ? All he has to do is raise his arm. Where's this proof of either beating anyone near Thanos level before they could react ?

He stated he depowered himself. On panel confirmation. He also stated he could not see his opponents moves only that he retained limitless power so you have nothing on panel to assume his reflexes were amped when the exact opposite was stated. When has anyone with the ig ever amped reflexes ? Please show me. You can continue to be hypocritical here it only hurts you.

I already stated why we've seen far less cut him than Gamora's blade which broke on his skin.

If it'll take less than seconds prove it. You haven't named or shown anyone close being beaten this quickly by either character.

His bio states he can, was the bio just a lie ? If a bio mentions a character's abilities that have never been stated in a comic is that marvel messing with us ?

No, I don't. If he can prove it.

Originally posted by quanchi112
Yes, I am lecturing you on common sense since you seem to abandon it here.

Lol.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you can't provide evidence of a thousand infinite mass punches then it's no longer viable. It's ridiculous it's like a fighter throwing and taking the same amount of effort and quickness with an uppercut as opposed to a jab. It's ridiculous.

😂

You think the Fallen One was going faster than light despite the fact that there's absolutely no indication, yet the Flash throwing a thousand infinite mass punches isn't viable despite the fact that he stated he could during inner monologue. I'm tempted to just end it here.

STOP!

That's a completely false analogy. An infinite mass punch is in no way depended on Flash's own personal strength/power. That would make him a Class 100 being in terms of strength. The infinite mass punch comes into play simply when Flash consciously allows real world affects to, for lack of a better word, affect him.

Originally posted by quanchi112
I have a bio stating he can go that fast. I said it's my opinion he was going that fast based on the situation but that's fine if you don't agree.

A bio is good enough for you, but on panel statements aren't. 👆

Yes, it does.

Originally posted by quanchi112
How fast do you think Surfer was going beyond the speed of light in that scene ? If Thanos can react while fighting someone else and being completely unaware of him why can't he react against two speedsters he's aware he's fighting ? All he has to do is raise his arm. Where's this proof of either beating anyone near Thanos level before they could react ?

I don't know. Do the f*cking math.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He stated he depowered himself. On panel confirmation. He also stated he could not see his opponents moves only that he retained limitless power so you have nothing on panel to assume his reflexes were amped when the exact opposite was stated.

Why do you keep confusing omniscience with reflexes? The two don't go hand in hand. Thanos might not be able to see Surfer's next move before he does it, but that doesn't mean he can't react to an attack that he normally can't.

Originally posted by quanchi112
When has anyone with the ig ever amped reflexes ? Please show me. You can continue to be hypocritical here it only hurts you.

😂

Originally posted by quanchi112
I already stated why we've seen far less cut him than Gamora's blade which broke on his skin.

And I already explained to you that the temporary boost he got was lost.

Originally posted by quanchi112
If it'll take less than seconds prove it. You haven't named or shown anyone close being beaten this quickly by either character.

Outside of the Anti-Monitor? None that I can think off.

I don't see why that matters. Everything from speed stealing to simply blitzing would be effective.

Originally posted by quanchi112
His bio states he can, was the bio just a lie ? If a bio mentions a character's abilities that have never been stated in a comic is that marvel messing with us ?

Copy and paste what I said in the beginning of my post.

By the way, bios are wrong at times. I'm betting that little tidbit was written simply because the Fallen One is a herald.

Originally posted by quanchi112
No, I don't. If he can prove it.

To quote you: I'll already gave my reasoning.

It'd be futile anyway as you, I, and everybody else knows.

Your next post better be more than you're usual bull if you want a reply.

Surfer beats flash but CIS-off zoom would be too much for either he or thanos.

I can go for that, even though I'm not sure on the Flash part. Probably the most fair thing I've heard on that "side". Thanks for posting. 🙂

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I can go for that, even though I'm not sure on the Flash part. Probably the most fair thing I've heard on that "side". Thanks for posting. 🙂

In regards, to the flash bit, i consider Surfers mental reactions good enough to initiate an omniblast, defensive shield or some other use of his powers which could negate flashes speed in a direct encounter between them. THen as for the speed steal, i have yet to see flash drain KE from an energy manipulator of surfers calibur so i doubt it will work.

Thanos' shield pulverized by Thor.

Thanos getting owned again. Rofl

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Flash traveling so fast that Superman's at a standstill is far more impressive than anything I've seen Surfer do.

Is this from the Zoom fight? If so this was done with an amp.

Thanos goes down hard AGAiN!!! Wooooohoo this is fun!

Shoko is taking no prisoners today.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Lol.

😂

You think the Fallen One was going faster than light despite the fact that there's absolutely no indication, yet the Flash throwing a thousand infinite mass punches isn't viable despite the fact that he stated he could during inner monologue. I'm tempted to just end it here.

STOP!

That's a completely false analogy. An infinite mass punch is in no way depended on Flash's own personal strength/power. That would make him a Class 100 being in terms of strength. The infinite mass punch comes into play simply when Flash consciously allows real world affects to, for lack of a better word, affect him.

A bio is good enough for you, but on panel statements aren't. 👆

Yes, it does.

I don't know. Do the f*cking math.

Why do you keep confusing omniscience with reflexes? The two don't go hand in hand. Thanos might not be able to see Surfer's next move before he does it, but that doesn't mean he can't react to an attack that he normally can't.

😂

And I already explained to you that the temporary boost he got was lost.

Outside of the Anti-Monitor? None that I can think off.

I don't see why that matters. Everything from speed stealing to simply blitzing would be effective.

Copy and paste what I said in the beginning of my post.

By the way, bios are wrong at times. I'm betting that little tidbit was written simply because the Fallen One is a herald.

To quote you: I'll already gave my reasoning.

It'd be futile anyway as you, I, and everybody else knows.

Your next post better be more than you're usual bull if you want a reply.

I don't see this as enough either way to ko Thanos. I mean it would bust him up but he's survived far worse and far more powerful characters in the Maker, Tyrant, Mar-vell, and Odin without the use of his shields.

You've enticed me so prepare to take the brunt of a personal mission to really commit myself to this thread now. Just give me time to dig .

you will rue the day you ever dared challenge me.

Let me get this comic I'm at somewhat of a disadvantage here as I care nothing about the flash and need to sort through this issue around 150 you say.

Let's see here he's a little over a light year away.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/The_Infinity_Guantlet_03-43.jpg

Now let's see how long it takes the Surfer to travel this distance with watching Thanos' movements against Cap America.

http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/The_Infinity_Gauntlet_04-42-1.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/The_Infinity_Gauntlet_04-43-1.jpg

I mean wtf. Is there any other reaction feat greater than this ? I mean the guy is well beyond even 1,000 times the speed of light to travel this distance in a second or two. I mean this is beyond a feat. He wasn't even aware of the Surfer's presence and that's how fast he made it to him at top speed and Thanos still evaded him yet Zoom or Flash is going to beat him before he can react. GFTO.

Ok, mr. I don't comprehend what I read.

Here are the scans.
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/The_Infinity_Gauntlet_04-09-4.jpg
http://i201.photobucket.com/albums/aa41/quanchi112/The_Infinity_Gauntlet_04-10-1.jpg

I need only to cut myself off from all sensory input from time, space, reality, thought, and the soul.

I would retain limitless power yet not know my enemies' next move.

My diminished capacity now turns this conflict into a true test of nerves and battle skills.

I just showed you with on panel proof he cut off all sensory input from all the other gems only taking in limitless power so this was Thanos with limitless power under his own skills and battle nerves.

He never lost his boost as his power was returning. What don't you get he was gaining his strength back the entire arc.

Thanos uses his shields before anyone even touches him imo based off this feat or even if he were to get tagged he puts them up immediately afterwards. Forceblock, mind lobo- game over.

Bios being wrong doesn't suggest this bio was off it's obvious the writer intends him to travel at very fast speeds. It makes no sense to create a herald of Galactus who can fly very very quickly on panel and yet be slower than light travel.

The Heavens will run red with blood. But in the end as always, Thanos will stand triumphant.