Originally posted by D_Dude1210Yeah, I figured it was vastly higher than that. You actually figured the entire problem out. Thanos' feat blows almost everything I've ever even heard of out of the water.
Actually, via math, one light year per second is about 31536000x the speed of light.
He wasn't even facing the Surfer either.
👆
Originally posted by quanchi112
Yeah, I figured it was vastly higher than that. You actually figured the entire problem out. Thanos' feat blows almost everything I've ever even heard of out of the water.He wasn't even facing the Surfer either.
👆
Funny thing is, the Surfer's best travel feat (at best) is about 1.5768x10^13 times light speed or 15 quadrillion times light speed (or close to that).
Beats Flash's best travel feat by a mile.
Wasn't on when you posted this reply so I'll do that now.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I’m sorry my friend but actions speak louder than words, words such as… the people he carried and the distance and the amount of time. If he did that action, then that’s the speed he traveled like it or not.
Um. The feat was done via narration as well. With this logic, I can just claim that I believe the latter narration more than I believe the former.
It's obvious that the writer did a computation fail here. Tho, it can be mentioned that the latter narration seems to indicate that he WANTED Flash to move at sub light speed. Writer's intention trumps writer's computational fail.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He traveled a distance of 70 miles carrying 1 person sometimes two, so let's say he carried 1.5 people each time. Which means he travelled 70 miles 354,667 times. (Half a million people). That makes 24,826,690 miles. He does that in .00001 MICROSECONDS, that is 10^(-11) seconds.That means he was travelling 2,482,669,000,000,000,000 mps, or about 2.5 quintillion miles per second. That is approximately 13 trillion times the speed of light.
Even if we allow your "feat" (w/c is rendered inconclusive due to mistaken narration), Surfer still trumps that.
By definition, and by your own words, this is a travel feat. Surfer's best is about 15 quadrillion times light speed.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You’ve proved nothing against an all out Flash or Zoom, and Zoom has no limit in his speed anyways, he’ll always be ahead of Surfer and therefore will always be faster.Not that it matters since it says nothing of his reactions at the start of the match. Keep digging.
No limits fallacy much? Nice.
Also, I do agree that he'd be ahead of the Surfer. Heck, I even admitted that he'd be a blur even to the Surfer's senses.
My point was that the Surfer's travel feat trumps Zoom/Flash's. Your admission here seems to prove that I accomplished this.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Funny how Surfer fans do that… all of the time. You shouldn’t contradict yourself. Let’s look up the definition shall we?
con•tra•dict
   Show Spelled[kon-truh-dikt] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to assert the contrary or opposite of; deny directly and categorically.
2.
to speak contrary to the assertions of: to contradict oneself.
3.
(of an action or event) to imply a denial of: His way of life contradicts his stated principles.
4.
Obsolete . to speak or declare against; oppose.You said he hasn’t robbed kinetic energy, but energy in motion, the very definition of kinetic energy is energy in motion, this is sixth grade science where I come from.
And honestly, none of that matters anyways, if he’s a statue, he is a statue.
You're going by definitions of words of the powers via a simple word: "kinetic" but it takes FEATS to prove that he can do something. Something that is absent here. You might want to throw around irrelevant definitions just for theatrics, but that doesn't make your logic sound at all.
Also, the word "kinetic" force gets thrown around in comics. Sebastian Shaw and Strong Guy can absorb "kinetic" energy. Doesn't mean they can absorb the kinetic energy from a person's brain electrical pulses to do it.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
By making them a statue? Sounds about right to me.
He robbed motion but not the mental reaction time of the characters. Even if the Surfer can't move, he can still mentally unleash an omnidirectional blast (PC only takes thought, not action to trigger). Prove me wrong with scans and I'll concede this point.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
How again did I manufacture anything?
By making up abilities that has never been shown thru scans. Next question.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
He explained the mechanic of the Infinite mass punch as he was using it. He goes past light to achieve it. He explained it and even said what he could do, and how many times he could do it. The fact that it is a one hit ko for the most part means he didn’t have to use it.
Which still translate to him SAYING it and not DOING it. It might be hard for you to accept, but if everyone here accepted words and not words backed by actions (would have been different if it showed his hands hitting at IMP power and then he said he was hitting someone 1000x a second) as evidence, then a LOT of characters here would hit at infinite levels (such as Gladiator having "unlimited strength"😉.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
It’s not up to me whether or not you like it, it’s up to the story.
Same can be said for you.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The main problem where your argument falls apart is this is KMC, in this match they are at the *best* of their abilities PIS off, and in this case CIS off. That means Flash is operating at the top of speed force with no mercy and can do whatever he likes with his powers. Do they ever write him that way, of course not. It would ruin the story. Maybe you need a freshening up on the rules:
Here I’ll do the work for you, like I’ve had to do the work throughout this thread:Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Again, what relevance is this? When did I ever mention CIS/CIP would hinder Flash? You need to get back to the relevant facts.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Which is just what is happening in this thread. I don’t have a problem with people using his powers within reason for this particular match, but trying to limit the other characters is very hypocritical, to say the least… again:Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Since when did I limit? I actually just requested that you provide Flash actually hitting someone with 1000s of IMPs in a second so that I may concede the point. You going around and ranting and tossing around irrelevant points only wastes both our time.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
What is hard for you to understand? I’ve displayed feats of speed, striking power, and everything else and people are saying it isn’t so because it will cause their beloved character to lose. Why should I have to keep drilling these points in over and over?
Did you read the arc?
Actually, if you read thru my points, I've made special care not to demonstrate a bias. I simply wanted you to post proof to back up your statements and this seems to send you into a tizzy.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Regardless I think destroying anti-montior’s shell will do. Or is *he* too high for Thanos now?
Post scans so that context may be determined pls.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Great, CISless Wally can’t even hurt a Superman level character now, when will it end?
When exactly did I say he couldn't? I only stated that you should provide proof to back up your statements and not to use ambiguous self-statements as conclusive evidence.
Will post a reply to your second reply later.
And here we go again… good fun.
Originally posted by quanchi112Thanos can be ko'ed. Thanos had a hard time with the Runner. That is hardly evidence for this matchup.
Thanos reforms. He is immune to death. I have already put up a scan at surfer going at least 1,000 times the speed of light and while fighting another character still moving out of the way. Team 1 stomps.
Originally posted by carver9Which are all a bunch of lies, I'm really getting tired of this. Rage pretty much said the same thing I said, and provided scans as well. I put up scans of punching power, speed, and moving speed and instead of countering them intelligently (because it couldn't be done), people made excuses and ran to other feats. Once those were proven they kept asking for things that were common sense, like it or not there has been sufficient prove our side to cover everything we said, this is our first Flash and Zoom debate, he’s been argued here for years.
Rage has owned in this thread... good job and cmaster, I never said that flash couldn't punch a thousand times in a second... that's all you all had to do was put up the zoom and flash fight, flash did it before the amp. What I was questioning was the millions, he has never shown this.
If people don't know Flash's power set then that's their problem, but don't try to use that ignorance and clog up the thread. There are only 3 people who seem to have this problem, all on the opposing side too... hmm…
The "No PIS" Rule
PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity
At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
com•pre•hend
   Show Spelled[kom-pri-hend] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to understand the nature or meaning of; grasp with the mind; perceive: He did not comprehend the significance of the ambassador's remark.
2.
to take in or embrace; include; comprise: The course will comprehend all facets of Japanese culture.
You have that proof of Wolverine’s superhuman speed and strength yet?
😆
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Wasn't on when you posted this reply so I'll do that now.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Um. The feat was done via narration as well. With this logic, I can just claim that I believe the latter narration more than I believe the former.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Writer’s action always trumps intent. Word of God if subject to change at any time. The writer meant for Flash to do the feat and *then* messed up afterwards. The fact that he saved the city before the bomb even went off says that in itself as the bomb had already hit and some of the projectiles come out at light speed anyways, if he had gone any slower it would have been impossible to save anyone. The feat is high end, but my point is that he did it.
It's obvious that the writer did a computation fail here. Tho, it can be mentioned that the latter narration seems to indicate that he WANTED Flash to move at sub light speed. Writer's intention trumps writer's computational fail.
com•pre•hend
   Show Spelled[kom-pri-hend] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to understand the nature or meaning of; grasp with the mind; perceive: He did not comprehend the significance of the ambassador's remark.
2.
to take in or embrace; include; comprise: The course will comprehend all facets of Japanese culture.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Not really, as that isn’t Flash’s best feat anyways, I was just explaining it as you were the one who brought It up.
Even if we allow your "feat" (w/c is rendered inconclusive due to mistaken narration), Surfer still trumps that.
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210I never said that and that isn’t true. I explained that clearly. Surfer simply using a warp travel technique to fly really fast in a straight line, even though that wasn’t that clear anyways (the distance), isn’t the same thing as moving fast in several directions, having to rescue people, having to locate them, pick them up one or two at a time, and having to bring them back. That is a reaction, fighting feat, and in the time he did that action one time, he could have thrown thousands of punches. Quite easily.
By definition, and by your own words, this is a travel feat. Surfer's best is about 15 quadrillion times light speed.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210In regards to Zoom’s powers? Not really, if you read on the character you’d know that’s exactly how his powers work.
No limits fallacy much? Nice.
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Can we have some general knowledge on the characters we’re debating? I’m not trying to be mean, but c’mon.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Also, I do agree that he'd be ahead of the Surfer. Heck, I even admitted that he'd be a blur even to the Surfer's senses.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
My point was that the Surfer's travel feat trumps Zoom/Flash's. Your admission here seems to prove that I accomplished this.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You're going by definitions of words of the powers via a simple word: "kinetic" but it takes FEATS to prove that he can do something. Something that is absent here. You might want to throw around irrelevant definitions just for theatrics, but that doesn't make your logic sound at all.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210They would have no access to it, it isn’t really within their powers. They only absorb from impacts.
Also, the word "kinetic" force gets thrown around in comics. Sebastian Shaw and Strong Guy can absorb "kinetic" energy. Doesn't mean they can absorb the kinetic energy from a person's brain electrical pulses to do it.
But even with all of that said, how does it really matter if the character is a statue?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
He robbed motion but not the mental reaction time of the characters. Even if the Surfer can't move, he can still mentally unleash an omnidirectional blast (PC only takes thought, not action to trigger). Prove me wrong with scans and I'll concede this point.
Case closed.
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210I’d like to see an example of this. Or maybe you’re just not aware of how logic works. This is fallacy of exclusion and slothful induction.
By making up abilities that has never been shown thru scans. Next question.
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Nope, because we use logic and that is the mechanics of how his abilities work. That is his characterization and protrayal. Flash has said it, and he has done it. The characters are fighting at their best which for this match means they do everything within their power. Trying to say something that isn’t stated isn’t obvious in this case is like arguing Spider-Man can’t smash someone’s head in, since he has never done it. It doesn’t hold up. This has been proven thoroughly, honestly what you think when you haven’t read up on the characters doesn’t really matter.
Which still translate to him SAYING it and not DOING it. It might be hard for you to accept, but if everyone here accepted words and not words backed by actions (would have been different if it showed his hands hitting at IMP power and then he said he was hitting someone 1000x a second) as evidence, then a LOT of characters here would hit at infinite levels (such as Gladiator having "unlimited strength"😉.
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Same can be said for you.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Again, what relevance is this? When did I ever mention CIS/CIP would hinder Flash? You need to get back to the relevant facts.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210You really need to study up on the character, your lack of understanding doesn’t really change what he can do.
Since when did I limit? I actually just requested that you provide Flash actually hitting someone with 1000s of IMPs in a second so that I may concede the point. You going around and ranting and tossing around irrelevant points only wastes both our time.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Actually, if you read thru my points, I've made special care not to demonstrate a bias. I simply wanted you to post proof to back up your statements and this seems to send you into a tizzy.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Post scans so that context may be determined pls.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210Done that. However we should follow the rules and use them at their max. They do the aforementioned things with *ease*.
When exactly did I say he couldn't? I only stated that you should provide proof to back up your statements and not to use ambiguous self-statements as conclusive evidence.Will post a reply to your second reply later.
@ C-Master
Thanos used other means for the Runner. His goal was to simply stall him we've seen him use other means when dealing with guys with tremendous speed.
That is evidene for this matchup. Thanos while fighting another character stopped someone flying at quadrillion times the speed of light. He can move far faster than either can even tag him based on this feat.
Nothing you have even compares I mean most of the scans are these guys operating at light speed and above. Surfer went over a billion times that while Thanos was fighting someone else and he still moved out of the way and all he h as to do is put up shields. Game over, boss.
Blame rage for me ending the thread with scans when he sai dod the -------math. I ended the thread right there.
Either show flash or zoom going faster than this or kindly concede. Thanos or the Surfer solos. Surfer is faster and Thanos can react to his insane traveling speed while fighting cap america.
Team 1 stomps.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Enjoy.This reminds me of the Akuma thing where you post things and people ignore them anyways.
We have Flash rescuing the people, and it’s shown they were rescued, not to mentioned the Nuke had hit when he came, so yea… claim what you want though, feats still > than statements here.
Writer’s action always trumps intent. Word of God if subject to change at any time. The writer meant for Flash to do the feat and *then* messed up afterwards. The fact that he saved the city before the bomb even went off says that in itself as the bomb had already hit and some of the projectiles come out at light speed anyways, if he had gone any slower it would have been impossible to save anyone. The feat is high end, but my point is that he did it.
Actually, I've given this a bit of thought and tried to consider it from your angle. With that, I've come to the realization that it really doesn't. As the whole feat was done VIA NARRATION as well, it doesn't trump writer's own narration of the feat. This is comics and for suspension of disbelief to be observed, basic rules (such as physics and sometimes even simple math) need to be ignored at times (I know that at a certain point it SHOULD observe the rules, but again, it really comes down to the writer how much RL rules he wants to follow. If he thinks Spinach can give you superpowers, well good for him).
We know two things are true in this scan:
1) He rescued 500,000 ppl under that span of time.
2) It was done under light speed.
You might want to chose to ignore one occurrence because it contradicts what you KNOW to be RL facts (I chose not to). But this is comics, it doesn't follow RL facts.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
com•pre•hend
   Show Spelled[kom-pri-hend] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to understand the nature or meaning of; grasp with the mind; perceive: He did not comprehend the significance of the ambassador's remark.
2.
to take in or embrace; include; comprise: The course will comprehend all facets of Japanese culture.
I don't really get the logic/reasoning on why you insist on posting these definition of terms. Other than to sound condescending to ppl who you don't even know. It really serves no purpose on this thread and (and I DO mean this with all due respect) makes you look like an ignorant tool.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Not really, as that isn’t Flash’s best feat anyways, I was just explaining it as you were the one who brought It up.
I actually, didn't bring this feat up. You did. Or someone else did. I merely mentioned that it was mentioned by the writer that the feat was performed at sub-light speeds by the writer's own word.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels. [/B]
You really have to cut it out with these persistent irrelevant cut/paste posts (you may mention it once, but multiple times is just being insulting). This is very high school and we would want to think (at least, I do anyway) that we're all above this sort of thing. Just because we disagree with you, doesn't denote ignorance. Just a difference of opinion.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Nope, because we use logic and that is the mechanics of how his abilities work. That is his characterization and protrayal. Flash has said it, and he has done it. The characters are fighting at their best which for this match means they do everything within their power. Trying to say something that isn’t stated isn’t obvious in this case is like arguing Spider-Man can’t smash someone’s head in, since he has never done it. It doesn’t hold up. This has been proven thoroughly, honestly what you think when you haven’t read up on the characters doesn’t really matter.
Thing is, logical inference (w/c is what you're doing here) is a poor way of providing proof. It can point out to the possibility of something, but you often need to back it up with corroborating evidence.
Also, I'm sure EVERYONE here knows the stips of the match as well as the rules of the forum. No need to keep repeating it. Seriously, we know what "full capacity" is.
We just disagree that 1000 IMPs is within the Flash's "full capacity" as it was never proven on panel.
The Spider-Man thing is a poor analogy. There has been many showings where Flash needed to put someone down quickly, why didn't he do the 1000 IMPs then?
Also, the scans you provided where he punched some 1000 times, why weren't THOSE IMPs?
With no absolute proof that he CAN perform 1000 IMPs back-to-back, I don't understand why you insist that you have provided sufficient proof to conclude that 1000 IMPs is an obvious ability for the Flash.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Not really, arguing such silly things about Flash’s speed is almost trolling, you don’t seem like a troll though. So I won’t say that.
Not insisting that Flash can't do these things. Just asking for proof that he can. I don't use logical inference to prove that Surfer can do something, I simply expect the opposing side to provide the same courtesy.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You didn’t say that, but by implying he can’t blitz somoene like he blitzed Zum (a time warper)
Didn't say he can't blitz. When did I say that?
I just said that he hasn't proven that he can hit someone with 1000s (or millions) of IMPs back-to-back as I've never seen that on panel.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
and how Zoom has moved so fast that Superman couldn’t react to him says plenty. They’ve traveled around the world many times throwing numerous punches.
If Flash can build bridges and rescue people in seconds along with fighting really fast, I’m sure he can do it here.
Never said he can't fight fast. Also, if you do the math, the feat where Zoom and an amped Flash fought, isn't really all that impressive. Let me explain:
Here's the fight:
http://img232.imageshack.us/f/13qo5.jpg/
Key facts:
Circled the Earth a dozen times.
Punched once every thousand miles.
Occured less than a second.
Earth's circumference: 24,901.55 miles
With these numbers, it means:
They travelled a total of 298,812 miles (slightly above light speed).
Punched a total of 298 times.
Even assuming that they didn't travel in a straight line, still isn't all that impressive.
All within less than a second.
It also proved one thing: They travel faster than they punch as for every punch, they travel a thousand miles.
Just some facts to think about (based on the Zoom/Flash fight).
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
You really need to study up on the character, your lack of understanding doesn’t really change what he can do.
Never assume that disagreement to be a sign of ignorance. Only the intellectually arrogant do this. And most of them don't really get that far in life as they lack the capacity to learn from others.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Lol, there have been an absolute fullisade of feats and scans projected, however we use logic at KMC.
And yet you cannot provide ONE definitive scan of the elusive 1000s or 1000000s of IMPs per second. Wonder why this is?
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Now, explaining things over and over again that should be common knowledge is just tiresome. You’re an ok guy it seems, but I don’t see why this is difficult to understand. You act like we just pulled things out of nowhere, like Flash’s ability to conjure up things.
I feel the same way. Like I said, other than h1, I try to give ppl here due respect when debating. Especially when I see your point (I just don't agree with it).
Some of the things you guys mentioned such as Flash being able so speed steal someone's reaction time/thought speed were pretty much unproven assumptions based on a play of definition of terms. You need to provide real evidence other than simple word usage to be able to prove that this is a possibility.
Also, just to add. The Surfer "conjures things up" a whole lot better than the Flash.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I believe Rage has already done that dear.
Nope he hasn't (sorry Rage, I respect you as a debater, but I really don't think you've conclusively proven your point here).
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Done that. However we should follow the rules and use them at their max. They do the aforementioned things with *ease*.
They MAY be able to do things, but the fact that you guys seem to point out that this SHOULD be a no-brainer seems to be ignoring the fact that they've had a LOT of need for this sort of thing (1000s of IMPs) as well as plenty of opportunity to do it, yet not even ONE SCAN can be provided to conclusively show that they've been able to do it before....
Just something to think about.
Skipped on your middle reply. Let me adress this now:
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I never said that and that isn’t true. I explained that clearly. Surfer simply using a warp travel technique to fly really fast in a straight line, even though that wasn’t that clear anyways (the distance), isn’t the same thing as moving fast in several directions, having to rescue people, having to locate them, pick them up one or two at a time, and having to bring them back. That is a reaction, fighting feat, and in the time he did that action one time, he could have thrown thousands of punches. Quite easily.
I underlined all the words that stated travel and the fact that this is a traveling feat isn't true?
The feat was impressive, I'll give you that. but you need to consider that there was as much more travel speed attached to that feat than there was reaction time. He needed to carry ppl across and it was that w/c made the feat impressive. The only non-travel based feat he really performed was grabbing them. Carrying/transporting them and finding them was mostly accomplished via his traveling speed.
With that kind of inference, I can claim that the Surfer would need to dodge planets, asteroids, space debris, stars and the occasional space vessel as he travels at that speed and that, in itself would denote FTL reaction time.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
In regards to Zoom’s powers? Not really, if you read on the character you’d know that’s exactly how his powers work.
I really shouldn’t explain such common sense things.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Zoom has no limit in his speed anyways
Being able to control how fast or slow in time he goes DOES NOT translate to unlimited speed. Geez.
Hell, their description of his abilities even imply a sort of "hard limit" to his abilities as they tend to stress the fabric of time. Also, the fact that the Flash managed to catch up to Zoom even PROVES that there is a clear limit to his speed.
Please stop stretching the wordings used to make them fit your conclusions.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Can we have some general knowledge on the characters we’re debating? I’m not trying to be mean, but c’mon.
Again, disagreement does not denote ignorance.
I know and understand Zoom's powers. I just don't exaggerate it.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Exactly why at the top of their powers, they’d both be blitzed. Superman was a statue in their fight which should say plenty.
W/c can be classified as a low showing for Superman as my Math above has shown.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I never admitted to anything, but I was trying to bring the discussion forward. What purpose is a travel feat in a thread like this, where they have to have the reaction time.
Actually concerning space travel, I’m sure Superman has similar feats (maybe better) speed has always been a pain to quantify in threads, and if you compare Superman’s speed to Wally’s or Zoom’s going all out, well there is just no comparison.
My main complaint is that ppl use Flash's speed feats and equate them DIRECTLY to his reaction speed when it seems that his travel speed is far more impressive than his reaction speed/combat speed feats. Then they say that this is "common sense" to think this and automatically translates to feats w/o first providing on panel evidence.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Flash is a master of kinetic energy by his powers (if you were aware of how they worked), unfortunately for you if Flash is able to do things with his powers, he is able to do them, particularly in this matchup, because you don’t like them doesn’t mean it doesn’t count, this is like that Carnage has no vampiric ability thing (despite it being mentioned and done on panel).Feats are only *one* part of a debate, characterization and logic are another. Using only silly featwars just leads to pointless circular arguments with high/low showings on both ends. You can show Batman out react Flash all you want to on panel, but on here he gets smoked every time, PIS is not contingent on consistency. This has been done a long time, and is pretty much common knowledge with Flash. Why it’s being argued against here is beyond me.
They would have no access to it, it isn’t really within their powers. They only absorb from impacts.
If he is able to show them on-panel then we can conclusively prove that he can. Creating feats by virtue of word interpretation is a poor way to debate as many words can be interpreted in many ways.
Flash needs to prove that he can steal a person's reaction time/mental reaction speed and if this was ever shown on panel. I know he's had plenty of feats where he slowed a person's movement down, but it never showed that these ppl couldn't mentally react anymore.
This is EXTREMELY relevant as the Surfer doesn't really need to move to do an omni-blast or to "think" himself intangible or to create force fields as he only really needs to think it for his powers to function.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
But even with all of that said, how does it really matter if the character is a statue?Characters who have their speed stolen turn into statues. Inertia can testify to that. He can’t do anything.
Case closed.
Surfer doesn't need to move to use his powers. He just needs to think it. Are you saying that Flash can steal reation/thinking speed? Please provide scans of this.
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
I’d like to see an example of this. Or maybe you’re just not aware of how logic works. This is fallacy of exclusion and slothful induction.
Like I said *and* Rage said, AND Flash said, and I’ll say again (yet again)… when Flash approaches light speed (which is no problem for him) he starts to achieve the necessary conditions to perform an infinite mass punch. Each hit after that is an IMP, it takes no other conditions on his part.
Sigh. Again, if you can't show the feat on-panel, all you have is logical inference as "evidence".
Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Hitting way more than 1,000 times? Defnitely been proven. Moving fast? Definitely been proven (obviously).
The funny part is we’re not even using the peak of their abilities like Conjuring items out of nowhere. I think the issue is that you aren’t really familiar with the characters and it sticks out painfully in this discussion by you ignoring evidence you don’t like and sending us on some wild chase to educate you on things you don’t understand. Do yourself a favor and visit the Flash respect thread at least, if you aren’t going to read his comics.
No, this is me ASKING for evidence and not logical inference being forced down ppl's throat as evidence. The problem with you is that you already suffer from a precognitive bias that sufficient evidence already exist. But when called on it, you return to logical inference as your definitive proof. I completely disagree with this methodology of debating.
If you're allowed to use logical inference then maybe you should allow quanchi to do the same.
