Surfer and Thanos vs Wally West and Zoom, no PIS, CIS, BFR, or BS Megamatch!!!

Started by Tha C-Master43 pages
Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Let’s get one thing clear about earlier. I don’t “dislike” anybody, I say stuff like that all of the time. So if anybody is offended, my bad. But, that being said, I do believe many members on here who get “bashed” all of the time are being silly and doing it for kicks, there’s just no way after this many years they keep doing what they’re doing and don’t realize it.

It’s called fooling around.
Now, let’s get on with this.

Originally posted by quanchi112
@ C-Master

Yes darling?
Originally posted by quanchi112
@ Thanos used other means for the Runner. His goal was to simply stall him we've seen him use other means when dealing with guys with tremendous speed.

What other means? It seems pretty clear that Thanos had a hard time with him, what were these means that pertain to the matchup? Can you please show them to me Mr. Quan?
Originally posted by quanchi112
@ That is evidene for this matchup. Thanos while fighting another character stopped someone flying at quadrillion times the speed of light. He can move far faster than either can even tag him based on this feat.

Where is this? When has Thanos moved Quadrillions of times past the speed of light?
Originally posted by quanchi112
@ Nothing you have even compares I mean most of the scans are these guys operating at light speed and above. Surfer went over a billion times that while Thanos was fighting someone else and he still moved out of the way and all he h as to do is put up shields. Game over, boss.

Where is this?
Originally posted by quanchi112
@ Blame rage for me ending the thread with scans when he sai dod the -------math. I ended the thread right there.

You ended the thread with using math?

Originally posted by quanchi112
@ Either show flash or zoom going faster than this or kindly concede. Thanos or the Surfer solos. Surfer is faster and Thanos can react to his insane traveling speed while fighting cap america.

Already been done, we’ve explained it in thorough detail. Surfer hasn’t done anything out the range for a GL or Superman and the Flash outright trumps them in speed.

Originally posted by quanchi112
@ Team 1 stomps.

They get stomped you mean?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Actually, I've given this a bit of thought and tried to consider it from your angle. With that, I've come to the realization that it really doesn't.

I believe it does. Intentional or unintentional the feat did really happen, he might have botched it, but it still happened and he still saved the city. This is kinda like the bean counting thing. Were there really 3,200 beans or 32,000? Did the writer mess up or did Superman?
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
As the whole feat was done VIA NARRATION as well, it doesn't trump writer's own narration of the feat. This is comics and for suspension of disbelief to be observed, basic rules (such as physics and sometimes even simple math) need to be ignored at times
The writers intent was for him to save the people in that amount of time. The point at the end of the day is if he did the feat then he did the feat. The nuke hit and if he had went under lightspeed it wouldn’t have happened.
It would be like having Wolverine slicing off Xavier’s head in an issue. Even if the writer said Wolverine didn’t do it, it wouldn’t count because it’s shown on panel. If that’s the case word of God would dominate and because there are so many writers it would be one big mess.
The only way out of it would be a retcon of some sort. It is a high end feat, but it’s at least done, better than the “counting stars” feat presented on the other side.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
(I know that at a certain point it SHOULD observe the rules, but again, it really comes down to the writer how much RL rules he wants to follow. If he thinks Spinach can give you superpowers, well good for him).

Well the problem is that comics still revolve around the real world to some extent. The only exceptions is when powers allow people to do otherwise, like flying. Things like the Sun being hot and normal humans dying when they lose their head still applies. People who say that logic doesn’t apply generally don’t like it because they don’t understand it very well. Why would they bother using “Ten ton strength” and “lightspeed” if it weren’t based around the world and something that we understand? Comics have grounding in the real world and on this forum we use logic. Logic is really nothing more than a tool for inferencing.
Whether that inference is in a comic world or the “real world” it still applies.
Magic A is Magic A.
If a character can survive a nuke, then it would be logical to say they can survive a grenade, even if said combatant hasn’t done that. This is the kind of thinking we use in a logical debate.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
We know two things are true in this scan:
1) He rescued 500,000 ppl under that span of time.
2) It was done under light speed.

There were two things stated but only one thing true. The amount of time that he took to do the act, referenced by the saved city and the nuke already hitting, so there can be no argument of it detonating early, if he went light speed, much less *under* light speed, he wouldn’t have rescued one person.
Honestly at this point it doesn’t even matter. Flash has even better feats than that, like moving at -2 and creating duplicates of himself from sheer speed.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You might want to chose to ignore one occurrence because it contradicts what you KNOW to be RL facts (I chose not to). But this is comics, it doesn't follow RL facts.

I’m not ignoring, I’m comparing and using the valid evidence.
If a comic had Superman tug the Earth and said he pulled 200 lbs, there wouldn’t be any argument that the latter is wrong. We know the Earth weighs more than 50 lbs.
The only issue this is brought up is simply because of the fact that the math to figure this out is more complex. At the end of the day, he did do the feat.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I don't really get the logic/reasoning on why you insist on posting these definition of terms. Other than to sound condescending to ppl who you don't even know. It really serves no purpose on this thread and (and I DO mean this with all due respect) makes you look like an ignorant tool.

Not really. I keep posting them because throughout the repeated posts and quotes it has shown me people quite clearly don’t understand the parameters of this matchup. Arguing that he can’t hit hard or move fast with the evidence stacked in front of you (them being statues around Zoom being a no brainer), should be pretty clear. It might be a bit mean to some posters but I felt it was necessary to get the point across. Especially when have to repeat myself.
Again, and again, and again, and… again.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I actually, didn't bring this feat up. You did. Or someone else did. I merely mentioned that it was mentioned by the writer that the feat was performed at sub-light speeds by the writer's own word.

I thought you provided the scan and started to argue it. Either way, it doesn’t matter anymore.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You really have to cut it out with these persistent irrelevant cut/paste posts (you may mention it once, but multiple times is just being insulting). This is very high school and we would want to think (at least, I do anyway) that we're all above this sort of thing. Just because we disagree with you, doesn't denote ignorance. Just a difference of opinion.

Not high school at all, there has been some condescending posting on your side as well. To keep asking for the same thing we’ve just proven is an insult to us. Especially when what you’re asking for is pretty much common knowledge.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Thing is, logical inference (w/c is what you're doing here) is a poor way of providing proof. It can point out to the possibility of something, but you often need to back it up with corroborating evidence.
It is used in versus threads, the reason being that this match hasn’t happened in comics and it hasn’t happened in these conditions. You cannot “prove” something that hasn’t happened before in the manner you speak of. You can only gather the evidence and make a judgement based off of what is presented to you. Then from there you can say the likelihood you expect these things to happen.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Also, I'm sure EVERYONE here knows the stips of the match as well as the rules of the forum. No need to keep repeating it. Seriously, we know what "full capacity" is.
Because people are acting like Zoom and Flash can’t punch hard or fast. This match isn’t a comic book match, so to go entirely on how a person fight’s in a comic (especially) a person of this magnitude (as explicitly stated in the example given) is simply insufficient.

[i]Originally posted by D_Dude1210
We just disagree that 1000 IMPs is within the Flash's "full capacity" as it was never proven on panel.
I have already explained the mechanics of an Infinite Mass Punch. Until you have proof that it doesn’t work that way and going against what the characters have even stated on panel, then there is no need to argue it because you are at a disadvantage on this point. It is easier to just concede this.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
The Spider-Man thing is a poor analogy. There has been many showings where Flash needed to put someone down quickly, why didn't he do the 1000 IMPs then?
You’re kidding right? Firstly the Spider-Man thing isn’t a poor analogy. He has the power to end a lot of matches he drags out. But because he holds back he doesn’t.
Secondly, and again, an IMP is pretty much a 1 hit ko.
Lastly, the rules *explicitly* say Flash can do this even if he doesn’t in comics because he has the power to do so, you have no argument here.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Also, the scans you provided where he punched some 1000 times, why weren't THOSE IMPs?
Which scans are you talking about? I already explained the mechanics of it. He has to be going above a certain speed before those happened. So now you’re going against, logic, the comics, the character, *and* the rules. You can continue to argue it, but you’ll be at a disadvantage.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
With no absolute proof that he CAN perform 1000 IMPs back-to-back, I don't understand why you insist that you have provided sufficient proof to conclude that 1000 IMPs is an obvious ability for the Flash.

We have no absolute proof Surfer just puts up shields and destroys everything at the start of the match, I mean, where has he done this? How do we know it doesn’t take time?
Show me where Spider-Man rips off a human’s head. I haven’t seen him do it.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Not insisting that Flash can't do these things. Just asking for proof that he can. I don't use logical inference to prove that Surfer can do something, I simply expect the opposing side to provide the same courtesy.

So you’re asking for someone to not be logical in a debate. That’s unheard of. I don’t know what types of debates you expect to happen here. Especially considering a forum match isn’t a comic book match, and that’s something I’ve made clear several times.
And using “Surfer puts up shields and nukes up the planet.” Is the *same* thing. So now that’s just hypocritical.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Didn't say he can't blitz. When did I say that?

You weren’t just implying it, you were outright saying it. He can nail a Superman level character before he can react and explained that he could. Because you aren’t as familiar with Flash doesn’t mean you can discredit it. Honestly, saying he can’t do it just because doesn’t cut it here.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I just said that he hasn't proven that he can hit someone with 1000s (or millions) of IMPs back-to-back as I've never seen that on panel.
Why would he need to?
He can on the forum though.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Never said he can't fight fast. Also, if you do the math, the feat where Zoom and an amped Flash fought, isn't really all that impressive. Let me explain:

Sure it was. Allow me to explain.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Here's the fight:

http://img232.imageshack.us/f/13qo5.jpg/

Key facts:

Circled the Earth a dozen times.
Punched once every thousand miles.
Occured less than a second.
Earth's circumference: 24,901.55 miles

With these numbers, it means:

They travelled a total of 298,812 miles (slightly above light speed).
Punched a total of 298 times.
Even assuming that they didn't travel in a straight line, still isn't all that impressive.
All within less than a second.

You really don’t have to explain it to me. I know light travels around the globe about 8 times a second. However that was only one part of their fight and the beginning. Superman was unable to react, and furthermore Flash went to light speed instantly nowhere was it stated it was his max speed. Now you mention the punches, nobody said he was punching his fastest. Just that he traveled 1,000 miles a punch. Not the same thing.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
It also proved one thing: They travel faster than they punch as for every punch, they travel a thousand miles.

Only in that particular matchup, there was nowhere stated that they were punching their fastest. I’m sorry to say this is simply ignorance of the character.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Just some facts to think about (based on the Zoom/Flash fight).

I don’t need to base it off of one incident where it wasn’t even stated he was punching his fastest when you have Zoom punching millions of times before he can finish one of *his* sentences…
That’s because I’m actually familiar with the characters I’m arguing mind you.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Never assume that disagreement to be a sign of ignorance. Only the intellectually arrogant do this. And most of them don't really get that far in life as they lack the capacity to learn from others.

Please. I like learning new things and I base my life around it. I’m saying ignorance because it really *is* ignorance. To insinuate Flash can’t punch a measly 1,000 times in a second, something Supes and Diana can probably do is just ignorance of the character. Many people familiar with the characters on both sides of the debate see this as reaching.

I simply feel you started this argument to continue to argue from the get go. No matter how many scans provided I keep getting the same thing. “No, I want to see more.” Then it was even insinuated I wanted to make the thread to give an unfair advantage when I explicitly asked several members what they thought of the therad so it can be even (on both sides).

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
And yet you cannot provide ONE definitive scan of the elusive 1000s or 1000000s of IMPs per second. Wonder why this is?

Who is it elusive to?
When has Flash needed to IMP somone 1,000 times?
What are the condiitons of this matchup?
What does the forum say about full capacity. For you to keep arguing these things makes me want to keep pasting definitions and rules. You really have nothing on your side, and this continued reaching by members on that side about things that should be obvious is ridiculous. Read up on Flash.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I feel the same way. Like I said, other than h1, I try to give ppl here due respect when debating. Especially when I see your point (I just don't agree with it).

Nothing wrong with disagreeing, but your side doesn’t have any evidence otherwise, many posts here show that many members on the board aren’t familiar with Flash *or* Zoom.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Some of the things you guys mentioned such as Flash being able so speed steal someone's reaction time/thought speed were pretty much unproven assumptions based on a play of definition of terms. You need to provide real evidence other than simple word usage to be able to prove that this is a possibility.

Not a play at all. It is all Kinetic energy as you said yourself. You knew this so you just threw it out. Not that it matters because characters “frozen” can’t do anything at all.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Also, just to add. The Surfer "conjures things up" a whole lot better than the Flash.

I have no problem with that, but the Flash can do it as well, but he doesn’t need to. The Flash also does it faster.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Nope he hasn't (sorry Rage, I respect you as a debater, but I really don't think you've conclusively proven your point here).

He has, your ignoring the point constantly doesn’t mean many members haven’t proven it.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
They MAY be able to do things, but the fact that you guys seem to point out that this SHOULD be a no-brainer seems to be ignoring the fact that they've had a LOT of need for this sort of thing (1000s of IMPs) as well as plenty of opportunity to do it, yet not even ONE SCAN can be provided to conclusively show that they've been able to do it before....

Just something to think about.

And again, you seem to forget the mechanics of the IMP have already been mentioned multiple times on panel, it isn’t some “special attack” that is different, as Flash states *himself* as he does it to Zum (not Zoom), it happens when he approaches light speed, and he even said he could do it 1,000 times.
Also the move has been pretty much a 1 hit ko so he has no need.

Did you miss the full capacity and PIS thing I posted multiple times, because it looks like it needs to be posted.
Characters fight at their full capcacity and “Flash can knock someone out instantly”.
Flash has had many times to ko everyone in an instant but why hasn’t he done that? That’s right, PIS. That doesn’t apply here so it doesn’t matter. Flash fights at his best, which means he goes way faster than light and hits with Imp’s; he’s fighting to his best ability here. End of story.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Skipped on your middle reply. Let me adress this now:

I underlined all the words that stated travel and the fact that this is a traveling feat isn't true?

The feat was impressive, I'll give you that. but you need to consider that there was as much more travel speed attached to that feat than there was reaction time. He needed to carry ppl across and it was that w/c made the feat impressive. The only non-travel based feat he really performed was grabbing them. Carrying/transporting them and finding them was mostly accomplished via his traveling speed.


It was a reaction feat. Flash can punch more than one time in a mile, and he can also punch quicker than he can carry one person 70 miles, who couldn’t? The fact that he had to come back and forth, search for people, find them and bring them to a certain location (not to mention opening and closing door, etc.) It shows he has the reaction time along with the speed. It is nothing like traveling in the same line.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
With that kind of inference, I can claim that the Surfer would need to dodge planets, asteroids, space debris, stars and the occasional space vessel as he travels at that speed and that, in itself would denote FTL reaction time.

No it doesn’t. It has nothing to do with him traveling in a straight line. The two simply don’t mix at all.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Being able to control how fast or slow in time he goes DOES NOT translate to unlimited speed. Geez.
Actually, neither Flash nor Zoom have a descript limit of their speed. They have to work harder to go faster (particularly Flash), and Zoom just manipulates time so he’s always faster. This is a red herring, because really. They’re both fast enough to blitz anyways. And hit hard.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Hell, their description of his abilities even imply a sort of "hard limit" to his abilities as they tend to stress the fabric of time. Also, the fact that the Flash managed to catch up to Zoom even PROVES that there is a clear limit to his speed.
Flash has never managed to catch up to Zoom with his own power, there was always a plot device. If you read the comics you would know this. 😛

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Please stop stretching the wordings used to make them fit your conclusions.

What have I stretched? Please do not water things down for the sake of your own argument, everything is all there to be seen. Unless you can prove that his IMP works differently than shown on panel, you have no real argument.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Again, disagreement does not denote ignorance.

No, but a lack of knowledge denotes it wonderfully.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
I know and understand Zoom's powers. I just don't exaggerate it.

I’ve heard Zoom can’t punch fast, hard, or run fast on that side of the argument. What else am I supposed to thing.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
W/c can be classified as a low showing for Superman as my Math above has shown.

Not really. None of the heroes could help. Superman has been blitzed numerous times, and they have gone trillions of times light speed. Supes doesn’t stand a chance.

They were locked between seconds, meaning time had frozen between all else but them. Have you read the actual issue? I know you haven’t.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
My main complaint is that ppl use Flash's speed feats and equate them DIRECTLY to his reaction speed when it seems that his travel speed is far more impressive than his reaction speed/combat speed feats. Then they say that this is "common sense" to think this and automatically translates to feats w/o first providing on panel evidence.

Not really. All versions of Flash and Zoom have their reaction right up to par with their travelling. You might want to try again. That’s pretty much par for the course being Flash and all.
You have no evidence of t his and you have nothing to substan

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
If he is able to show them on-panel then we can conclusively prove that he can. Creating feats by virtue of word interpretation is a poor way to debate as many words can be interpreted in many ways.

Yes feats matter, but so does inference, and keeping in mind the fact that this is a forum match and not a comic match, means they will be using their powers to maximum effect.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Flash needs to prove that he can steal a person's reaction time/mental reaction speed and if this was ever shown on panel. I know he's had plenty of feats where he slowed a person's movement down, but it never showed that these ppl couldn't mentally react anymore.

Look up Inertia, he really couldn’t do anything.
Originally posted by D_Dude1210
This is EXTREMELY relevant as the Surfer doesn't really need to move to do an omni-blast or to "think" himself intangible or to create force fields as he only really needs to think it for his powers to function.

Not if they can’t do anything.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Surfer doesn't need to move to use his powers. He just needs to think it. Are you saying that Flash can steal reation/thinking speed? Please provide scans of this.

I’m saying he won’t be able to do anything. The Flashes have several abilities that don’t require movement, but being frozen takes this from them.
If one of their types of characters can be affected by it, especially being that they can manipulate the same energies, Surfer doing so is out of the question.

S

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Sigh. Again, if you can't show the feat on-panel, all you have is logical inference as "evidence".

It’s been proven by his characterization, history, and forum rules.
You don’t really have anything to base your argument off of, hence you sending everyone on a goose chase.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
No, this is me ASKING for evidence and not logical inference being forced down ppl's throat as evidence. The problem with you is that you already suffer from a precognitive bias that sufficient evidence already exist. But when called on it, you return to logical inference as your definitive proof. I completely disagree with this methodology of debating.

No, this is you *stalling* and refusing to admit said evidence. The problem with you and your argument is that you’ve had a bias from the start based on your comments. I really haven’t. Even several people on your own side see that. Besides a handful of… people, there hasn’t been any real argument here.
Your side has ignorantly claimed things about their speed that wasn’t true. That has been proven wrong, now your side jumps to punching power, that has been proven wrong to.
The reason it has become so ridiculous is that the things you are asking for are straight up common sense facts about Flash and Zoom, and you want to use your own “inference” to negate points when it suits you, but I’m sorry it doesn’t work that way. I’m not trying to be insulting but it’s becoming very difficult not to make a sarcastic remark when in the very rules of this forum it even uses Flash as an example for speed and going all out to max ability and you still ignore it like nobody has said anything. The level of reaching is proposterous. I have definitely contributed more and have proven more, along with the likes of Galan, Rage, and other posters.

I have explained the mechanics of the IMP, and I have shown Flash explain it. Like I’ve explained Zoom’s powers, and I have explained his character when fighting heroes that won’t be used in this match, I’ve explained all of it and proven it on panel.
You have no argument to go against this nor do you have any significan logic or inference. In this forum Flash fights at his best, along with Zoom. With that in mind they blitz them numerous times before they can react. You have no argument against it nor have you proven it to be out of their capability. This argument is pretty much solid and closed at this point.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
If you're allowed to use logical inference then maybe you should allow quanchi to do the same.
Lol he has done all of the “inference” he needs to do. You are *supposed* to use logical inference to determine *anything* in a debate. That isn’t even a question.
Saying the Flash and Zoom can’t do their ability and then posting a strategy of “Shield up, nuke planet.” Is hyprocritical as all hell. I’m sorry.
Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
So I'm gone and there is STILL no proof of Flash or Zoom throwing millionS or billionS of punches in less than a second I see. Only inference and conjecture on many people's part. Shoot we don't even see a scan were flash or zoom threw that many punches, let alone KO'd someone on the level of surfer..let alone Thanos. Both Surfer and Thanos have displayed ftl reflexes. Sure they are slower than either party here.. Cool. Never argued otherwise. What I am arguing is that they will land blows... many blows before Surfer or Thanos can react, but won't be KO'd before they can fire and omni blast, teleport, raise shields or any numbers of things they can do. All the conjecture about what they could or couldn't do is great.. yet when it comes down to it.. we have never seen them throw the amount of punches in much much less than a second (how fast they woudl have to considering surfer and thanos reaction speeds) and they haven't KO'd ANYBODY of significance using said tactic.
Everything that has been shown will be shown, you will either agree or disagree. I think I know the result by now.

This last part is for everyone who doesn’t seem to understand the rules of the match:
The "No PIS" Rule

PIS = Plot Induced Stupidity

At times, for the sake of the plot, characters that are immensely more powerful than their opponent will "job" to carry on the plot of the story, even though the characters powers and history would clearly show that they are more than capable of destroying their opponent. For this reason we have a No PIS Rule. This rule prohibits the use of such instances of PIS from being used as evidence in debates.
Full Capacity
It is assumed that each contestant will fight to his/her best ability, but still within the character's personality, unless specified otherwise. That means they will use any powers at their disposal. For example, even though The Flash doesn't clock each of his own opponents in the first millisecond in his own comic, it is assumed that is a viable tactic on this board since it is a proven fact that he possesses that level of speed.
It is also assumed that the characters fight at their optimum levels of ability - not explicitly weakened or unusually powered up for those who have variable power levels.
com•pre•hend
   Show Spelled[kom-pri-hend] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1.
to understand the nature or meaning of; grasp with the mind; perceive: He did not comprehend the significance of the ambassador's remark.
2.
to take in or embrace; include; comprise: The course will comprehend all facets of Japanese culture.

log•ic
   [loj-ik]
–noun
1.
the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.
2.
a particular method of reasoning or argumentation: We were unable to follow his logic.
3.
the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.
4.
reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions: There wasn't much logic in her move.
5.
convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness: the irresistible logic of the facts.
6.
Computers . logic circuit.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

There. Now that's done.

Rage.Of.Olympus Senior Member

Haha, I wouldn't even have bothered.

I couldn't help but notice that Ddude is still arguing against Flash being able to throw a thousand infinite mass punches and so on. My response: Lulz.

I thought we ended that a while ago.

-Pr- Hey Yo!

...as if he'd even NEED a thousand.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

I'd say a handful for Surfer and Thanos.

Originally posted by Rage.Of.Olympus
Haha, I wouldn't even have bothered.

I couldn't help but notice that Ddude is still arguing against Flash being able to throw a thousand infinite mass punches and so on. My response: Lulz.

I thought we ended that a while ago.

I was almost not going to, but I wanted to address them. He said he's done, but I have a feeling he might argue it again.

It is ridiculous to argue such common sense things. I understand Flash and Zoom are broken on the forum, but that's not my problem.

Starscream M Senior Member

instead of posting these long ass responses...wouldn't just 2 or 3 scans be far more effective?

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by -Pr-
...as if he'd even NEED a thousand.
Exactly.

Why people think Thanos and Surfer could endure thousands of IMPs, and thousands of Superman-level punches delivered almost instantly after the battle begins, is completely beyond me..

Starscream M Senior Member

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

Why people think Thanos and Surfer could endure thousands of IMPs, and thousands of Superman-level punches delivered almost instantly, is completely beyond me..

isn't this million superman level punches per second theoretical?

anyone has an onpanel scan of either flash or zoom throwing million SUPERMAN LEVEL punches per second?

Omega Vision Face Flowed Into Her Eyes

Originally posted by Starscream M
instead of posting these long ass responses...wouldn't just 2 or 3 scans be far more effective?

I think it's been established in this thread that the Thanos/Surfer camp are in the habit of ignoring scans.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

It's not a habit, it's a gift.

Originally posted by Galan007
Exactly.

Why people think Thanos and Surfer could endure thousands of IMPs, and thousands of Superman-level punches delivered almost instantly after the battle begins, is completely beyond me..

I don't even know if they think that, they just argue that they can't do it in the first place. Since that shield thing has been removed from the equation.
Originally posted by Starscream M
instead of posting these long ass responses...wouldn't just 2 or 3 scans be far more effective?
We've done both and it hasn't gotten through. Not to mention there are a plethora of scans on here. D_Dude asked for it... literally.

Starscream M Senior Member

Originally posted by Omega Vision
I think it's been established in this thread that the Thanos/Surfer camp are in the habit of ignoring scans.
so respond with 10000 word posts instead is a better idea?

that would seem counterintuitive, no?

Starscream M Senior Member

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
We've done both and it hasn't gotten through. Not to mention there are a plethora of scans on here. D_Dude asked for it... literally.
yeah there prob are...this thread is getting so long that I have no idea where to look for the relevant parts

if the opposing side are gonna ignore scans/hard evidence, then why even bother putting up these multiple post responses?

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by Starscream M
isn't this million superman level punches per second theoretical?

anyone has an onpanel scan of either flash or zoom throwing million SUPERMAN LEVEL punches per second?

Originally posted by Galan007
On panel, we know that Zoom CAN deliver millions of punches in the time it takes HIM to finish a sentence, we know he CAN punch with the force of Superman, and we know he CAN strike at the aforementioned levels without having to build up any extra speed/momentum (he was literally striking Dianna with those level of punches from point blank.)

^^ That being said, if Zoom were bloodlusted, not holding back whatsoever, and using his powers to their best (which are the stips of this thread), he would certainly be putting those abilities together. To suggest otherwise is to completely disregard the evidence presented.

1+1+1=common sense.

Tha C-Master Zitz! Rash! Pimple!

Honestly a million punches for Flash is like a million pounds for Superman. Just a walk in the park.

Originally posted by Starscream M
so respond with 10000 word posts instead is a better idea?

that would seem counterintuitive, no?

That was more than 10,000 words. I believe.

I think you can do either/or, but you can't make people see what they don't want to.

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah there prob are...this thread is getting so long that I have no idea where to look for the relevant parts

if the opposing side are gonna ignore scans/hard evidence, then why even bother putting up these multiple post responses?

Mainly because I said I'd counter his argument and I also argued several people at once. We can always post up scans or link up a respect thread.

Honestly that can be said about any thread after about 2 pages. This is nowhere near as big as some other monsters on the forum.

Starscream M Senior Member
Originally posted by Galan007
we know he CAN strike at the aforementioned levels without having to build up any extra speed/momentum (he was literally striking Dianna with those level of punches from point blank.)

I have an issue with this one.

Does it not take him more energy to do this? He punched Diana how many times...maybe 10? To extrapolate from that he could punch 1000 or a million times at the same power without any further evidence seems a stretch.

Even if he didn't need momentum, he would need more energy...vastly more to deliver a superman level punch than the weaker punches. Does he have an infinite store of energy...to allow him to deliver A MILLION?

you can't supply reduce this to a 1+1 equation. that's a simplistic and flawed approach. Now you may in the end be right...but the evidence certainly isn't sufficient.