Surfer and Thanos vs Wally West and Zoom, no PIS, CIS, BFR, or BS Megamatch!!!

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Couldn't they just hit them before they react. I wonder how phasing would work, or a time jump.

It's been shown that the Surfer can react to FTL attacks even at close range. Flash stands about half a mile away and would need to close the gap BEFORE the Surfer can even react at the slightest. IMO, I'm sure Flash/Zoom are fast enough to close the gap to IMP the Surfer, however, the Surfer would be able to detonate a cosmic Omni-blast after the first few punches land (w/c the Surfer would be able to tank).

The Flash would need to start running after that. He runs out of room to run, Omni-blast spreads to the ends of the planet, encompassing the whole place, then POOF! Flash-fried Flash.

Assuming that the Flash/Zoom can somehow find room to get away from the blast, this would give Thanos enough time to erect a forcefield, wherein the mind-raping shall begin...

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
It's been shown that the Surfer can react to FTL attacks even at close range. Flash stands about half a mile away and would need to close the gap BEFORE the Surfer can even react at the slightest. IMO, I'm sure Flash/Zoom are fast enough to close the gap to IMP the Surfer, however, the Surfer would be able to detonate a cosmic Omni-blast after the first few punches land (w/c the Surfer would be able to tank).

The Flash would need to start running after that. He runs out of room to run, Omni-blast spreads to the ends of the planet, encompassing the whole place, then POOF! Flash-fried Flash.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Flash couldn't even react to Zoom while seriously amped, and Flash going all out is such a beast that he could have hit a Superman character (who can also react that fast) 1,000 times before he could blink, after a certain point actions start to happen simultaneously. I'd bet on them in a quickdraw. Either way they can still vibrate and time hop.

Thing is, they'd need to be many thousands of times faster than the Surfer's perception (w/c has been shown as FTL) just to close the .5 mile gap AND pepper him with punches before the Surfer can react with a thought (w/c is all it takes to fire off an Omniblast). W/c I don't think is the case.

They vibrate thru objects by vibrating between molecules. Energy attacks dont have molecules. Do they have feats that show them vibrating thru energy attacks?

Also, time-hopping is something the Surfer can do just as easily as Flash, and wouldn't that count as self-BFR?

The instant Flash/Zoom go on the defensive, Thanos' shields go up and it's game over anyway.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Thing is, they'd need to be many thousands of times faster than the Surfer's perception (w/c has been shown as FTL) just to close the .5 mile gap AND pepper him with punches before the Surfer can react with a thought (w/c will be an Omniblast). W/c I don't think is the case.

They vibrate thru objects by vibrating between molecules. Energy attacks dont have molecules. Do they have feats that show them vibrating thru energy attacks?

Also, time-hopping is something the Surfer can do just as easily as Flash, and wouldn't that count as a BFR?

The instant Flash/Zoom go on the defensive, Thanos' shields go up and it's game over anyway.

On the forum anyways.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The problem is Zoom is always ahead of any timeline the combatants are in (so it doesn't count as a bfr if they are on the battlefield, which is Earth). Both characters have gone many thousand times faster than light. Then you have speed steal. To blitz a character on Superman's level before he can react shows that. No BS CIS Wally and Zoom is pretty much unbeatable until you get to a good skyfather.

On the forum anyways.

Time manipulation is one of the Surfer's powerset. Doing a time-attack really wouldn't cut it here and should also be excluded as the debate on this issue would prolly be longer than a "blow the planet up" attack w/c wasn't allowed to the cosmic team for the same reason. That is, unless you want to really demonstrate a bias here.

To speed steal, they need to get in close (or is there a time where he did it at a range?) w/c won't happen because the Omni blast would already be heading their way. Also, from my knowledge, speed stealing takes away KINETIC energy, not the reaction time of the Surfer's mind. Even frozen in place, he can still omni-blast.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Time manipulation is one of the Surfer's powerset. Doing a time-attack really wouldn't cut it here and should also be excluded as the debate on this issue would prolly be longer than a "blow the planet up" attack w/c wasn't allowed to the cosmic team for the same reason. That is, unless you want to really demonstrate a bias here.

To speed steal, they need to get in close (or is there a time where he did it at a range?) w/c won't happen because the Omni blast would already be heading their way. Also, from my knowledge, speed stealing takes away KINETIC energy, not the reaction time of the Surfer's mind. Even frozen in place, he can still omni-blast.

Even if we were going to play the blow the planet up thing, (which we could, I just didn't want to ruin the debate with it) we could also do the "Drop the multiverse on their domepieces" argument.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Zoom's powers function off of him manitpulating his own time bubble. It hasn't been BFR in any debate. I've never seen it implied as such. Leaving the battlefield itself or removing it is a "battlefield *removal" in my book.

Even if we were going to play the blow the planet up thing, (which we could, I just didn't want to ruin the debate with it) we could also do the "Drop the multiverse on their domepieces" argument.

Scans of this feat?

Blowing up the planet is something the Surfer and the other Heralds have demonstrated to be a regular ability. "Dropping the multiverse on ppl's domepieces" is a feat RIFE with PIS and/or hyberbole (kinda like Thor lifiting an infinitely increasing hammer). Unless you consider Flash to be a multiversal-lvl character (w/c he is not).

Scans of the time bubble?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
Scans of this feat?

Blowing up the planet is something the Surfer and the other Heralds have demonstrated to be a regular ability. "Dropping the multiverse on ppl's domepieces" is a feat RIFE with PIS and/or hyberbole (kinda like Thor lifiting an infinitely increasing hammer). Unless you consider Flash to be a multiversal-lvl character (w/c he is not).

Flash keeps going and achieves infinite mass... you know the rest...

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Scans of the time bubble?

Flash keeps going and achieves infinite mass... you know the rest...

W/c is what an IMP is, I know. But dropping a multiverse? Hyperbole (the aftermath of an attack like this would destroy the univere. did he destroy the universe?).

Like I said, Time Manipulation is as much the Surfer's powers as it is Zoom's. But going that route would really turn this into a circular debate. But if you mean that they use time manipulation the way Zoom does it to move quickly, then I don't see how it makes a difference here. He'd outrun the omniblast, but it'd eventually get him once he runs out of room.

Originally posted by Parmaniac
Even if, Flash has already shown that he can outrun TP attacks, without CIS/PIS he definately will.

Flash isn't the only one in this fight. Zoom hasn't shown any resistance to it.

Originally posted by Colossus-Big C
flash has run to the end of the universe, there definitly not going to run out of space to run 😬

also these guys are fast enough to vibrate through the blast

Self bfr for the lose?

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
W/c is what an IMP is, I know. But dropping a multiverse? Hyperbole (the aftermath of an attack like this would destroy the univere. did he destroy the universe?).

Like I said, Time Manipulation is as much the Surfer's powers as it is Zoom's. But going that route would really turn this into a circular debate. But if you mean that they use time manipulation the way Zoom does it to move quickly, then I don't see how it makes a difference here. He'd outrun the omniblast, but it'd eventually get him once he runs out of room.

Great dane can explain the multiverse dump. ^

I am talking about time being a bfr. It's how their powers work.

Now. When has Surfer or Thanos used their ability like Zoom's and to his level of mastery?

To quote a respected debater:

Originally posted by h1a8
Your opponent can have the power of TOAA (minus the speed) and flash will still win.

Both Thanos and Surfer have time manipulation abilities.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Both Thanos and Surfer have time manipulation abilities.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/search.php?s=&action=showresults&q=userid%3A101622&sortby=&sortorder=&pagenumber=6

Great dane can explain the multiverse dump. ^

I am talking about time being a bfr. It's how their powers work.

Now. When has Surfer or Thanos used their ability like Zoom's and to his level of mastery?

You'll need to show this "multiverse dump" via scans or you really can't use it here.

Like I said, Zoom uses his "time bubble" power to speed up. The Surfer actually travels thru time and perceives time lines. If you allow a time attack, he'd just go back and time and un-exist Zoom (w/c he's done on-panel before).

Basically, Zoom's time power is just Zoom moving really really fast w/c won't help him once the omni-blast starts.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
To quote a respected debater:

I seriously hope the term "respect" was meant in jest.

Originally posted by D_Dude1210
You'll need to show this "multiverse dump" via scans or you really can't use it here.

Like I said, Zoom uses his "time bubble" power to speed up. The Surfer actually travels thru time and perceives time lines. Basically, it's just Zoom moving really really fast w/c won't help him once the omni-blast starts.

I seriously hope the term "respect" was meant in jest.

Zoom travels and pops in and out of time at will. I was just saying that using his ability wouldn't be a bfr as it is the source of his powers.

This battle is really just haxx. The Flash and Zoom are characters that you either get stomped by or you stomp them, based on their powerset. Nothing stopping Flash from doing a trillion IMP's at the start of the match. He could nail a white martian with 1,000 of them as easily as one before he could react. Surfer doesn't really show to have Supes combat reflexes. Surfer *can* travel fast though. Furthermore perception isn't the same thing as reacting.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
When have Surfer or Thanos used their ability to the level of Zoom, particularly in regards to reaction time and movement?

When has Thanos been KO'd via blunt force? If they are hiting Surfer or thanos that means they are in range and getting hit by an omni directional blast as it radiates from their entire body. If they are making contact with Thanos or Surfer they are getting hit. Please show me zoom or flash.. dodging omni directional blast radiating from someone's body while punching them.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Don't dis h1a8 fool. uhuh

Zoom travels and pops in and out of time at will. I was just saying that using his ability wouldn't be a bfr as it is the source of his powers.

This battle is really just haxx. The Flash and Zoom are characters that you either get stomped by or you stomp them, based on their powerset. Nothing stopping Flash from doing a trillion IMP's at the start of the match. He could nail a white martian with 1,000 of them as easily as one before he could react. Surfer doesn't really show to have Supes combat reflexes. Surfer *can* travel fast though. Furthermore perception isn't the same thing as reacting.

Please show me Flash doing a trillion IMP's in less than a second.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Don't dis h1a8 fool. uhuh

h1's my b!tch, you're gonna WATCH me diss im and like it, punk!

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Zoom travels and pops in and out of time at will. I was just saying that using his ability wouldn't be a bfr as it is the source of his powers.

This battle is really just haxx. The Flash and Zoom are characters that you either stomp or you stomp them, based on their powerset. Nothing stopping Flash from doing a trillion IMP's at the start of the match. He could nail a white martian with 1,000 of them as easily as one before he could react. Surfer doesn't really show to have Supes combat reflexes. Surfer *can* travel fast though. Furthermore perception isn't the same thing as reacting.

Sigh.

FYI, Surfer's fastest travel feat pwns Zoom's or Flash's.

Perception indicates an ability to sense something. Sensing someting implies that it exists between your instances of thought. If he can perceive it then he can think about it. Thought is all the Surfer needs to trigger his Power Cosmic.

While Zoom might be faster than the Surfer's limbs are able to react. He is not faster than the Surfer being able to perceive him then trigger an omniblast via thinking it.

I'm not sure about that travel feat. It won't beat Zoom's and probably not Flash's going all out. Especially when Flash has done crazy things like going so fast that a duplicate of himself emerged and outraced... himself.

Percieving something isn't the same thing as reacting to it. Your body might process the information or send it to you, but the time it takes to send the signals (kinetic by the way) are another thing entirely. Basically, because I see something doesn't mean I can react to it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
When has Thanos been KO'd via blunt force? If they are hiting Surfer or thanos that means they are in range and getting hit by an omni directional blast as it radiates from their entire body. If they are making contact with Thanos or Surfer they are getting hit. Please show me zoom or flash.. dodging omni directional blast radiating from someone's body while punching them.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Please show me Flash doing a trillion IMP's in less than a second.

Being serious here now, I understand that we have to be consistent but it's pretty obvious that if a character can do something they can. Flash can IMP a white martian one or 1,000 times instantly, after a certain speed actions begin to happen simultaneously. He OHKO'ed a Superman level character and sent him into space.

Now hasn't Drax and Gamora given Thanos some pain?