Originally posted by "Id"
Are you sure we are talking about Fate, and not Nabu?I thought I read, that Nabu is pure energy. While Kents body is virtually indestructible, and superhuman while it serves Nabu as its host.
I could be entirely wrong, I am just getting into reading Dr. Fate.
I'm not very knowledgeable on Nabu, but I could have sworn I saw a scan posted by Evolution.
Originally posted by Prep-Man
I'm not very knowledgeable on Nabu, but I could have sworn I saw a scan posted by Evolution.
Fate, is endowed with Nabu's protection granting him Flying Brick physicality at Superman's level, and immortality. And IRRC he can turn himself into energy.
But yeah Classic Fate is naturally strong. Its part of Nabu's enchantment.
Originally posted by Uriel005
If Strange starts channeling Dr. Fate energy against himself like he did with Shuma its over. But I think CIS prevents that as last time Shuma nearly possesed him because of it. But yeah CIS off that would take care of Fate and most people pretty quick when you combine that with the other abilities and forces he has available to him. But with CIS on I stick by my statement Dr. Fate wins by a slight margin.
Versus matches are CIS free, or at least knotted down. Meaning they fight with the intentional to win. If CIS is what prevents Strange from using his most exotic or dangerous spells in his comics, they would not factor in here.
Originally posted by "Id"
I am sure Nabu is an entity of pure energy.Fate, is endowed with Nabu's protection granting him Flying Brick physicality at Superman's level, and immortality. And IRRC he can turn himself into energy.
But yeah Classic Fate is naturally strong. Its part of Nabu's enchantment.
Versus matches are CIS free, or at least knotted down. Meaning they fight with the intentional to win. If CIS is what prevents Strange from using his most exotic or dangerous spells in his comics, they would not factor in here.
Just to interject: it is a presumption that Strange would be able to use Fate's power against him in that manner. Both are relatively equal in feats/expressed power, and both have more subtle edges in their favor (Fate likely has more applicable esoteric knowledge, and thus "harder" application of mystical force, while Strange has more finesse/adaptability of magic; while those subtleties can make or break any particular moment of a battle, in the longview they more or less balance out).
Originally posted by tideoftimeAggress. Fate routinely takes on characters of Nabu’s level, its evident that Fate wields magic sufficiently high enough to counter or block such attempts.
Just to interject: it is a presumption that Strange would be able to use Fate's power against him in that manner. Both are relatively equal in feats/expressed power, and both have more subtle edges in their favor (Fate likely has more applicable esoteric knowledge, and thus "harder" application of mystical force, while Strange has more finesse/adaptability of magic; while those subtleties can make or break any particular moment of a battle, in the longview they more or less balance out).
I just wanted to delude the thought, that CIS will play a heavy factor in this match.
Originally posted by "Id"
I am sure Nabu is an entity of pure energy.Fate, is endowed with Nabu's protection granting him Flying Brick physicality at Superman's level, and immortality. And IRRC he can turn himself into energy.
But yeah Classic Fate is naturally strong. Its part of Nabu's enchantment.
Versus matches are CIS free, or at least knotted down. Meaning they fight with the intentional to win. If CIS is what prevents Strange from using his most exotic or dangerous spells in his comics, they would not factor in here.
Found it. I knew I read it somewhere, although the scan doesn't work. It states in his respect thread.
Dr. Fate can hold his breath underwater(unaided by any spell) and does jujitsu underwater as well...lol. Next, they talk about Fate's body being pure energy and indestructible, he is unharmed by a light ray.
Also, don't forget that the Helm of Fate is pretty damn powerful. One of the most powerful artifacts in the universe according to Helm of Fate mini series.
Originally posted by tideoftime
Uhhh... no, sweetie...You're displaying considerable ignorance in that assessment.
They are both relatively equal.
The real question, as indicated by the majority of above answers, really boils down to giving an arguement for how the general split between them can be swayed to 6/10 in one or the other's favor, which a couple posters have already provided.
Do some proper research, then come back and give a more sensible arguement for why Strange would get the 6/10 (though certainly *not* a slam, under any conventional circumstances).
I never post in threads before doing research.
Doctor Strange has beaten In-Betweener and even Death itself. He had ressurected Galactus and could fight Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet. Even Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet had to worry about Stepen's power. Stephen also fought the Living Tribunal several times. And he also has beaten Shuma-Gorath 2 times.
Doctor Fate simply doesn't stand a chance against the Sorcerer Supreme.
Dr. Strange has some incredible highs, it's true, but he's also got some of the lowest lows around. Getting beaten by Spiderman, or knifed by a random dude, getting beaten by Thor, etc.
And some of the feats that have been mentioned thus far -- Fighting Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet, for instance -- are accomplished with prep, and by bringing in every mystical artifact he has, rather than just the 'standard' artifacts he generally carries. If you're going to go in THAT direction, you may as well point to Dr. Fate destroying an entire UNIVERSE in Cosmic Odyssey. Some of them are grossly mis-represented, like 'fighting' the Living Tribunal (yes, he attacked him -- so could Paste Pot Pete).
In general, it seems pretty clear, especially from the JLA/Avengers crossover, that Dr. Fate is going to have more raw power immediately available to him. He himself is an incarnate Lord of Order (Or balance, depending on the version we're talking about), where as Dr. Strange generally has to draw upon the powers of others to effect his spells -- thusly is more reliant on time, on words, on gestures. Dr. Fate also has the added advantage of being physically superior -- invulnerable and super strong -- which in a battle like this may SEEM like a small thing, until you realize the importance of striking first, of being able to take more punishment even as you dish it out.
That said, I don't think anyone can doubt that classic Dr. Strange has some of the highest feats in comics, and his highest highs are higher than those of Dr. Fate, IMHO.
It's probably a wash -- both I see as above top tier and the respective pinnacles of their universe's magic.
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
Doctor Strange has beaten In-Betweener
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
and even Death itself.
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
He had ressurected Galactus
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
and could fight Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet.
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
Even Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet had to worry about Stepen's power.
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
Stephen also fought the Living Tribunal several times.
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
And he also has beaten Shuma-Gorath 2 times.
I have no idea what Classic Fate's feats and capabilities are. Can anyone clue me in?
There is a respect thread out there, though it's fairly incomplete...
http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t445327.html
Some things not included on it would be the casual killing of one of the Demons Three, Fate's battle with the Spectre, the omnipotence ability demonstrated in the Detective Chimp one shot, totally deconstructing and reconstructing a city, defeating and trapping a Lord of Order in a dead body, granting every wish of Black Alice and resisting her will/power, defeating a powered up Mordru (once in a battle that crossed dimensions and time, another time with the element of surprise, etc), defeating a God more powerful than Nabu, etc
Originally posted by Desaad
There is a respect thread out there, though it's fairly incomplete...http://www.killermovies.com/forums/f98/t445327.html
Some things not included on it would be the casual killing of one of the Demons Three, Fate's battle with the Spectre, the omnipotence ability demonstrated in the Detective Chimp one shot, totally deconstructing and reconstructing a city, defeating and trapping a Lord of Order in a dead body, granting every wish of Black Alice and resisting her will/power, defeating a powered up Mordru (once in a battle that crossed dimensions and time, another time with the element of surprise, etc), defeating a God more powerful than Nabu, etc
I feel like redoing Fate's respect thread, in its entirety.
Originally posted by "Id"
I am sure Nabu is an entity of pure energy.Fate, is endowed with Nabu's protection granting him Flying Brick physicality at Superman's level, and immortality. And IRRC he can turn himself into energy.
But yeah Classic Fate is naturally strong. Its part of Nabu's enchantment.
Versus matches are CIS free, or at least knotted down. Meaning they fight with the intentional to win. If CIS is what prevents Strange from using his most exotic or dangerous spells in his comics, they would not factor in here.
Originally posted by Lord_Dagoth
I never post in threads before doing research.Doctor Strange has beaten In-Betweener and even Death itself. He had ressurected Galactus and could fight Adam Warlock with the Infinity Gauntlet. Even Thanos with the Infinity Gauntlet had to worry about Stepen's power. Stephen also fought the Living Tribunal several times. And he also has beaten Shuma-Gorath 2 times.
Doctor Fate simply doesn't stand a chance against the Sorcerer Supreme.
I was about to post concerning your... "imaginative" response... but then noted that King Kandy already beat me to it, and answered correctly... soooooo...
Merry Christmas...
Hope that Santa left you some *proper* research in your stocking...
I am familiar with Classic Strange, and although he did not perform any of the feats as ascribed to him so far in this thread, he was insanely powerful; easily the most powerful superhero in marvel during his peak. And more importantly, he was versatile, and usually had a way to make smaller feats add up into larger ones when he wasn't up to a task.
Casual time stopping, able to drain the energy from mystical beings more powerful than himself, a variety of nigh-inescapable BFR options, absolute telepathy (I can't recall a single instance of him losing a telepathic battle that he was prepared for), and other nifty powers. I'm hesitant to give the win to anyone in a fight against him, but while a lot of the abilities I mention have been pretty well publicized, some kind of scans for Fate's favor should be posted, I think. Not just beating powerful beings (thought seeing that would be great, because the scans of those fights are no longer working), but specific powers and abilities that give him an edge on Strange.
Peak Strange with CIS off can't lose. Nothing short of abstracts or direct magic counters stops him. His ability to channel his opponents energy against them like he did in his earlier days before he found out about being corrupted by doing so made him unbeatable for all intents and purposes in a straight up fight. Since someone said CIS off he channels Fates energy against him for a guaranteed win. That said I'm not 100% sure Fate would win anyways. In a physical fight sure but Dr. Strange is one of THE magical authorities in Marvel as generally being above certain gods in terms of raw power with the ability to call for more if needed. Dr. Fate certainly puts up a good fight but he isn't taking this one.