Cross Genre Match #21: Frieza vs Thanos

Originally posted by Black bolt z
Yes but you have to prove it was planetary power.You can't just claim every blast that they throw is planetary busting power buts its concentrated.You have to prove it.And theres no way to prove it.

And that has absolutely no relevance.

They was this during buu saga with majin vegeta?Yeah them>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Freiza.

No it was because of his biology.

Most of the things you say are hilarious.You can't make a claim without backing it up.

Here's a major issue when discussing DBZ characters...

I've stated this before in other threads and I'll state it again:

You can debate using DBZers one of two ways.... The first is to use them as if they're regular comic book characters dictating that the feats they present on panel alone are examples of their limitations. While this makes it easier to argue using far less speculation... it's also a meathod that discredits the characters and is not an accurate assessment of their overall power.

Which leads to the second... if one wants to accurately debate using DBZ characters, you HAVE to account for power stacking...
Ironically enough someone already tried to discredit DBZ supporters in this thread with an assessment that really ties things together here... "you rely too much on how things look instead of how they are".

The issue with DBZ characters and most Shonen Jump characters for that matter is that they typically already start out at VERY powerful levels, and that their continual growth in power is analogous with typical comic book upgrades.

---when a US comic character gets an upgrade it's automatically and DEFINITELY worth noting because it changes the dynamic of any given fight. No one would be comfortable comparing "the Other" Spiderman to his classic 1960's incarnation and any attempts to do so would be wholy ignorable beause it would lack any merit given the differences between both versions. ---

The thing about DBZ characters is that they're walking plot holes: When you want to make characters that are already at a planetary busting level and THEN make them hundreds, to thousands, to millions of times stronger than that through the course of the series, the only way you can really represent that without outright destroying universes, or ripping through the threads of reality etc, is to flat out state the differences in strength levels which DBZ did multitudes of times.
DBZ is the HOME of ABC logic, because that's the only way characters are capable of beating one another... by being outright more powerful than they're opponent and hitting them with attacks that are of that power. There are MAYBE a handful of exceptions to that rule through the entire series, but for the most part, it holds true.

Now all of this might sound like a digression but it has very much to do with Black Bolt's post...

Do we need to prove that every attack is of a planet busting level in the Frieza fight?
Logically speaking?.... Not necessarily... No.

And here's why
--- We've seen that DBZ characters can bust cities, moons, and other planetary bodies without taxing their full power or even approaching it.
We've also seen that "all out" attacks from characters of that power level literally do not even leave scratches on stronger opponents.
Given those facts, it's very illogical to assume that ANY character in DBZ would attack an enemy with a weaker level of power then they are capable of dishing out because any attack used in moderation against a stronger opponent would be absolutely useless.

So then, this presumption that attacks from known planet busters are not at a planet busting level just because they don't do the proper collateral damage with every attack is incredibly logically unsound given the overall narrative of the story.

Don't get me wrong, you CAN argue like that, but it's a bit disengenuous to do so.
DBZ threads inherently lend themselves to "either/or" types of discussions, they're not limited to quantifiable feats alone.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
You mean 2 percent?

No.... 😕

Originally posted by jinzin
No.... 😕

Divide 120,000,000 by 530,000. What do you get?

Originally posted by quanchi112
Not getting into this with you since I don't watch dragon ball z. Surfer destroys a planet as usually a last ditch effort and has never even been taxed when doing so.

I also suspect you're twisting what Frieza is capable of and are lying when you state this guy can oneshot heralds.

Champion didn't rival his own power so what's your point ?

Shields+ forceblock=game over from what I imagine but then again I don't watch dragon ball z and only correct people's false logic I don't know enough about dragon ball z to debate this as I have stated numerous times.

Frieza has a force block of his own but his force block also atomic bombs the entire area if you try to break out of it or if it touches anything besides him.

I posted a scan of him humiliating a herald.

Originally posted by jinzin
Here's a major issue when discussing DBZ characters...

I've stated this before in other threads and I'll state it again:

You can debate using DBZers one of two ways.... The first is to use them as if they're regular comic book characters dictating that the feats they present on panel alone are examples of their limitations. While this makes it easier to argue using far less speculation... it's also a meathod that discredits the characters and is not an accurate assessment of their overall power.

Which leads to the second... if one wants to accurately debate using DBZ characters, you HAVE to account for power stacking...
Ironically enough someone already tried to discredit DBZ supporters in this thread with an assessment that really ties things together here... "you rely too much on how things look instead of how they are".

The issue with DBZ characters and most Shonen Jump characters for that matter is that they typically already start out at VERY powerful levels, and that their continual growth in power is analogous with typical comic book upgrades.

---when a US comic character gets an upgrade it's automatically and DEFINITELY worth noting because it changes the dynamic of any given fight. No one would be comfortable comparing "the Other" Spiderman to his classic 1960's incarnation and any attempts to do so would be wholy ignorable beause it would lack any merit given the differences between both versions. ---

The thing about DBZ characters is that they're walking plot holes: When you want to make characters that are already at a planetary busting level and THEN make them hundreds, to thousands, to millions of times stronger than that through the course of the series, the only way you can really represent that without outright destroying universes, or ripping through the threads of reality etc, is to flat out state the differences in strength levels which DBZ did multitudes of times.
DBZ is the HOME of ABC logic, because that's the only way characters are capable of beating one another... by being outright more powerful than they're opponent and hitting them with attacks that are of that power. There are MAYBE a handful of exceptions to that rule through the entire series, but for the most part, it holds true.

Now all of this might sound like a digression but it has very much to do with Black Bolt's post...

Do we need to prove that every attack is of a planet busting level in the Frieza fight?
Logically speaking?.... Not necessarily... No.

And here's why
--- We've seen that DBZ characters can bust cities, moons, and other planetary bodies without taxing their full power or even approaching it.
We've also seen that "all out" attacks from characters of that power level literally do not even leave scratches on stronger opponents.
Given those facts, it's very illogical to assume that ANY character in DBZ would attack an enemy with a weaker level of power then they are capable of dishing out because any attack used in moderation against a stronger opponent would be absolutely useless.

So then, this presumption that attacks from known planet busters are not at a planet busting level just because they don't do the proper collateral damage with every attack is incredibly logically unsound given the overall narrative of the story.

Don't get me wrong, you CAN argue like that, but it's a bit disengenuous to do so.
DBZ threads inherently lend themselves to "either/or" types of discussions, they're not limited to quantifiable feats alone.

I thought it was 2%? Can't remember offhand, as that was ages ago.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
Divide 120,000,000 by 530,000. What do you get?

Nah, I put credence into what Frieza stated about his own power levels.

The actual sources are giving me those numbers. Anyway, when did Frieza say he used 0.025 percent of all his power to blow up Vegeta?

Yeah, I don't exactly like arguing by way of handbooks alone, especially when they tend to condradict canon material.

Frieza stated his power was fluxing from percentages of 1 to 100 in his forth form... you just have to down-scale from there.

Originally posted by TheTyrant
The actual sources are giving me those numbers. Anyway, when did Frieza say he used 0.025 percent of all his power to blow up Vegeta?

When frieza was fighting goku at 1% of his true power level and the 1% frieza was in the millions powerlevel wise and was FAR more powerful than the frieza that blew up planet vegeta.

If you look at it, it would be like 0.005 if you include his other forms.

Originally posted by jinzin
Here's a major issue when discussing DBZ characters...

I've stated this before in other threads and I'll state it again:

You can debate using DBZers one of two ways.... The first is to use them as if they're regular comic book characters dictating that the feats they present on panel alone are examples of their limitations. While this makes it easier to argue using far less speculation... it's also a meathod that discredits the characters and is not an accurate assessment of their overall power.

Which leads to the second... if one wants to accurately debate using DBZ characters, you HAVE to account for power stacking...
Ironically enough someone already tried to discredit DBZ supporters in this thread with an assessment that really ties things together here... "you rely too much on how things look instead of how they are".

The issue with DBZ characters and most Shonen Jump characters for that matter is that they typically already start out at VERY powerful levels, and that their continual growth in power is analogous with typical comic book upgrades.

---when a US comic character gets an upgrade it's automatically and DEFINITELY worth noting because it changes the dynamic of any given fight. No one would be comfortable comparing "the Other" Spiderman to his classic 1960's incarnation and any attempts to do so would be wholy ignorable beause it would lack any merit given the differences between both versions. ---

The thing about DBZ characters is that they're walking plot holes: When you want to make characters that are already at a planetary busting level and THEN make them hundreds, to thousands, to millions of times stronger than that through the course of the series, the only way you can really represent that without outright destroying universes, or ripping through the threads of reality etc, is to flat out state the differences in strength levels which DBZ did multitudes of times.
DBZ is the HOME of ABC logic, because that's the only way characters are capable of beating one another... by being outright more powerful than they're opponent and hitting them with attacks that are of that power. There are MAYBE a handful of exceptions to that rule through the entire series, but for the most part, it holds true.

Now all of this might sound like a digression but it has very much to do with Black Bolt's post...

Do we need to prove that every attack is of a planet busting level in the Frieza fight?
Logically speaking?.... Not necessarily... No.

And here's why
--- We've seen that DBZ characters can bust cities, moons, and other planetary bodies without taxing their full power or even approaching it.
We've also seen that "all out" attacks from characters of that power level literally do not even leave scratches on stronger opponents.
Given those facts, it's very illogical to assume that ANY character in DBZ would attack an enemy with a weaker level of power then they are capable of dishing out because any attack used in moderation against a stronger opponent would be absolutely useless.

So then, this presumption that attacks from known planet busters are not at a planet busting level just because they don't do the proper collateral damage with every attack is incredibly logically unsound given the overall narrative of the story.

Don't get me wrong, you CAN argue like that, but it's a bit disengenuous to do so.
DBZ threads inherently lend themselves to "either/or" types of discussions, they're not limited to quantifiable feats alone.

This is the best way of explaining this. People fail to understand the word "plot". Of course they don't blow up the planet with every attack just like odin doesn't destroye galaxys with every attack. This could also lead to the fact why cell DIDN'T destroy the solar system with his attack, that would have been the end of dbz but that didn't take away from the fact that cells words about his power wasn't a lie since the characters themselves is the narriator of the manga.

Exactly... From a storytelling standpoint, or an author's perspective, when you don't have a third person narrative, or the voice of "god" for exposition, your characters basically become that voice.

That fact alone forces us to put a lot more credence into character observations, assessments, and boasting than we would normally consider at face value.

It's why you have so many anime characters yapping endlessly about their powers and capabilities in situations where they should just be shuttin the hell up and fighting...

it really does come down to the storytelling devices used by a manga vs. the storytelling devices used by comics. They're completely different.

Originally posted by jinzin
Here's a major issue when discussing DBZ characters...

I've stated this before in other threads and I'll state it again:

You can debate using DBZers one of two ways.... The first is to use them as if they're regular comic book characters dictating that the feats they present on panel alone are examples of their limitations. While this makes it easier to argue using far less speculation... it's also a meathod that discredits the characters and is not an accurate assessment of their overall power.

Which leads to the second... if one wants to accurately debate using DBZ characters, you HAVE to account for power stacking...
Ironically enough someone already tried to discredit DBZ supporters in this thread with an assessment that really ties things together here... "you rely too much on how things look instead of how they are".

The issue with DBZ characters and most Shonen Jump characters for that matter is that they typically already start out at VERY powerful levels, and that their continual growth in power is analogous with typical comic book upgrades.

---when a US comic character gets an upgrade it's automatically and DEFINITELY worth noting because it changes the dynamic of any given fight. No one would be comfortable comparing "the Other" Spiderman to his classic 1960's incarnation and any attempts to do so would be wholy ignorable beause it would lack any merit given the differences between both versions. ---

The thing about DBZ characters is that they're walking plot holes: When you want to make characters that are already at a planetary busting level and THEN make them hundreds, to thousands, to millions of times stronger than that through the course of the series, the only way you can really represent that without outright destroying universes, or ripping through the threads of reality etc, is to flat out state the differences in strength levels which DBZ did multitudes of times.
DBZ is the HOME of ABC logic, because that's the only way characters are capable of beating one another... by being outright more powerful than they're opponent and hitting them with attacks that are of that power. There are MAYBE a handful of exceptions to that rule through the entire series, but for the most part, it holds true.

Now all of this might sound like a digression but it has very much to do with Black Bolt's post...

Do we need to prove that every attack is of a planet busting level in the Frieza fight?
Logically speaking?.... Not necessarily... No.

And here's why
--- We've seen that DBZ characters can bust cities, moons, and other planetary bodies without taxing their full power or even approaching it.
We've also seen that "all out" attacks from characters of that power level literally do not even leave scratches on stronger opponents.
Given those facts, it's very illogical to assume that ANY character in DBZ would attack an enemy with a weaker level of power then they are capable of dishing out because any attack used in moderation against a stronger opponent would be absolutely useless.

So then, this presumption that attacks from known planet busters are not at a planet busting level just because they don't do the proper collateral damage with every attack is incredibly logically unsound given the overall narrative of the story.

Don't get me wrong, you CAN argue like that, but it's a bit disengenuous to do so.
DBZ threads inherently lend themselves to "either/or" types of discussions, they're not limited to quantifiable feats alone.

So until there is a feat or statement of freiza that says he can destroy a solar system or more then you have to leave it.

Originally posted by carver9
When frieza was fighting goku at 1% of his true power level and the 1% frieza was in the millions powerlevel wise and was FAR more powerful than the frieza that blew up planet vegeta.

If you look at it, it would be like 0.005 if you include his other forms.

The thing is people think freiza was only using 1% when he was in his final form.I mean he was laughing while doing it but it obviously took a large amount of power to blow planet vegeta.

Which you still haven't proven is 10x the size of earth.

Originally posted by Black bolt z

So until there is a feat or statement of freiza that says he can destroy a solar system or more then you have to leave it. 😂

Originally posted by Starscream M
you don't need to be able to destroy a solar system to be able to beat thanos.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I understand what you are saying. But the thing is is that without feats to show how much more powerful they are you can't quantify how much more powerful he is.I mean freiza can easily bust a planet. This was shown and stated on panel.

So until there is a feat or statement of freiza that says he can destroy a solar system or more then you have to leave it. 😂

The thing is people think freiza was only using 1% when he was in his final form.I mean he was laughing while doing it but it obviously took a large amount of power to blow planet vegeta.

Which you still haven't proven is 10x the size of earth.

As I said, different story telling devices.. I mean you can ignore the solar system statements, but those statements are a bit more credible than the typical comic book hyperbole IMO.

At the very least you can quantify that Frieza could destroy 1 planet using below 1 percent of his power and multiply the amount of planets he could concievably blow up at 100% I suppose.

Vegeta... a large amount of power for another character, but not for Frieza by all appearances... I mean the guy was sitting, laughing, not powering up and using a single finger... doesn't exactly scream out frieza at his best IMO but even if you want to call that the max power of his first form (being very disengenous to Frieza) there's still multitudes of percentages to account for....

*sigh* Stupid DBZ characters are a headache to argue over in a comic book forum.... wait no... I just drank too much coffee... eh probably both. 😛

I'm content to agree to disagree with you on the issue though... I honestly don't think this threads gonna be changing opinions regardless of how heated it gets.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
I understand what you are saying. But the thing is is that without feats to show how much more powerful they are you can't quantify how much more powerful he is.I mean freiza can easily bust a planet. This was shown and stated on panel.

So until there is a feat or statement of freiza that says he can destroy a solar system or more then you have to leave it. 😂

The thing is people think freiza was only using 1% when he was in his final form.I mean he was laughing while doing it but it obviously took a large amount of power to blow planet vegeta.

Which you still haven't proven is 10x the size of earth.

Its all common sense black bolt. If someone has a power level of a hundred and is able to shed a moon easily, what would a person with a power level in the millions be able to do?

Feats doesn't mean sh** in dbz when akira put power level in place to help us with this. Akira also gave us a starting point. He showed us that one of the weakest being in dbz could become a planetary threat. He showed us that the weakest being could level a moon with ease.

Then later on his show us that with a lift of their hand they are able to topple cities, create explosions that is big enough that it is seen in space.

Later on down the line buu was so powerful that the guy was destroying cities with his mouth. Hell, kid buu was so powerful that his scream was destroying the planet earth.

Then you have super buu screaming yet again breaking through dimensions. Planetary ain't sh** to them. By the saiyan saga, goku and vegeta alone was shooting out planetary level power and you have frieza that is a couple of 100 millions more powerful than him.

I already showed you that power level means a lot in dbz. You have guy with a power level of 350 over powering picollo blast and piccolo had a power level of 300. That small difference caused goku to generate far more power and over come piccolos blast.

The list goes on.

Frieza would laugh at roshi moon busting attack, it won't even faze him. Hell, he will walk through it and pimp smack roshi... do you want to know why, because frieza is significantly more powerful than him.

You shouldn't be debating on if a character should be able to shed a solar system if they are able to wipe cities clean just by opening their mouths. You shouldn't be calling a person only planetary since they are able to scream and destroy planets.

Frieza was millions of times more powerful than vegeta during the saiyan saga. Do the math. Frieza should be able to destroy a solar system without too much trouble. Hell, piccolo himslef stated that frieza can blow up namek instantly.

And again, let's not forget, frieza is a universal threat.:-)

Originally posted by jinzin
He was focused on you proving the planetary destructive force of Surfers blast.. you didn't.
It's that simple. You made a digression from the original point and expected everyone else to take the leap with you, then got your panties in a bundle with it didn't happen.

😂 If the most you can do is criticize my spelling errors, I'm going to have to assume you have nothing else of merit to say, but given the string of your posts on the subject, that isn't at all surprising.

So once again, you admit to posting "irrelevant" (that better for you?) material... Cool, I'll take your concession on the matter.

No, I didn't I gave an example of Thanos being involved in a battle that destroyed a planet and he won at his weakest. You then came in chirping about me being impressed which was incorrect.

No, as you can plainly see I did more than criticize your spelling errors I just pointed out you don't know how to spell words you use. That's embarrassing.

No, it was relevant as to planet destroying power which Thanos at his weakest won in spite of the planet being destroyed. It was relevant whereas you are irrelevant.

Originally posted by carver9
Frieza has a force block of his own but his force block also atomic bombs the entire area if you try to break out of it or if it touches anything besides him.

I posted a scan of him humiliating a herald.

Originally posted by Black bolt z
No.But you need more then planet busting to beat thanos.

And frieza was more than planet busting. Use your brain blackbolt. Vegeta during the saiyan saga was planet busting... do you think goku during the frieza saga can generate more power?

Originally posted by jinzin
As I said, different story telling devices.. I mean you can ignore the solar system statements, but those statements are a bit more credible than the typical comic book hyperbole IMO.

At the very least you can quantify that Frieza could destroy 1 planet using below 1 percent of his power and multiply the amount of planets he could concievably blow up at 100% I suppose.

Vegeta... a large amount of power for another character, but not for Frieza by all appearances... I mean the guy was sitting, laughing, not powering up and using a single finger... doesn't exactly scream out frieza at his best IMO but even if you want to call that the max power of his first form (being very disengenous to Frieza) there's still multitudes of percentages to account for....

*sigh* Stupid DBZ characters are a headache to argue over in a comic book forum.... wait no... I just drank too much coffee... eh probably both. 😛

I'm content to agree to disagree with you on the issue though... I honestly don't think this threads gonna be changing opinions regardless of how heated it gets.

Yes he can destroy a planet with that. But being able to destroy 1 planet with 1% does not equate to being able to destroy 100 planets with 100% or even a planet 100x earths size.

Yes.But it obviously isn't 1%.Would I guess he had more power in 1st form?Yes.Would I guess it was a lot more?No.

😂. Yes they are hard to argue over.As to debate with them properly ABC logic is needed and you don't use that for comic books.

Exactly.