Cross Genre Match #21: Frieza vs Thanos

Started by Tha C-Master85 pages

Originally posted by illadelph12
Which is why it would be necessary to state the version being used. For example, Animated Goku's canon is from Dragonball through Dragonball GT, whereas his Manga Adaptation ends at DBZ. If a fight were made using Animated Goku, only evidence from the cartoons would be admissable as evidence (which would include feats from GT and make SSJ4 level available), and the same for Manga Goku (only Manga Evidence could be used for arguments, not cartoon clips).
Absolutely (although in this case it wouldn't be a problem as Frieza ends in both media at the same time), as long as it isn't filler.

I posted a site with the whole manga there if anybody wanted to see for themselves and check up on things.

Reposting as I feel it's relivant to the discussion at hand.

Originally posted by jinzin
Here's a major issue when discussing DBZ characters...

I've stated this before in other threads and I'll state it again:

You can debate using DBZers one of two ways.... The first is to use them as if they're regular comic book characters dictating that the feats they present on panel alone are examples of their limitations. While this makes it easier to argue using far less speculation... it's also a meathod that discredits the characters and is not an accurate assessment of their overall power.

Which leads to the second... if one wants to accurately debate using DBZ characters, you HAVE to account for power stacking...
Ironically enough someone already tried to discredit DBZ supporters in this thread with an assessment that really ties things together here... "you rely too much on how things look instead of how they are".

The issue with DBZ characters and most Shonen Jump characters for that matter is that they typically already start out at VERY powerful levels, and that their continual growth in power is analogous with typical comic book upgrades.

---when a US comic character gets an upgrade it's automatically and DEFINITELY worth noting because it changes the dynamic of any given fight. No one would be comfortable comparing "the Other" Spiderman to his classic 1960's incarnation and any attempts to do so would be wholy ignorable beause it would lack any merit given the differences between both versions. ---

The thing about DBZ characters is that they're walking plot holes: When you want to make characters that are already at a planetary busting level and THEN make them hundreds, to thousands, to millions of times stronger than that through the course of the series, the only way you can really represent that without outright destroying universes, or ripping through the threads of reality etc, is to flat out state the differences in strength levels which DBZ did multitudes of times.
DBZ is the HOME of ABC logic, because that's the only way characters are capable of beating one another... by being outright more powerful than they're opponent and hitting them with attacks that are of that power. There are MAYBE a handful of exceptions to that rule through the entire series, but for the most part, it holds true.

Now all of this might sound like a digression but it has very much to do with Black Bolt's post...

Do we need to prove that every attack is of a planet busting level in the Frieza fight?
Logically speaking?.... Not necessarily... No.

And here's why
--- We've seen that DBZ characters can bust cities, moons, and other planetary bodies without taxing their full power or even approaching it.
We've also seen that "all out" attacks from characters of that power level literally do not even leave scratches on stronger opponents.
Given those facts, it's very illogical to assume that ANY character in DBZ would attack an enemy with a weaker level of power then they are capable of dishing out because any attack used in moderation against a stronger opponent would be absolutely useless.

So then, this presumption that attacks from known planet busters are not at a planet busting level just because they don't do the proper collateral damage with every attack is incredibly logically unsound given the overall narrative of the story.

Don't get me wrong, you CAN argue like that, but it's a bit disengenuous to do so.
DBZ threads inherently lend themselves to "either/or" types of discussions, they're not limited to quantifiable feats alone.

Originally posted by jinzin
Exactly... From a storytelling standpoint, or an author's perspective, when you don't have a third person narrative, or the voice of "god" for exposition, your characters basically become that voice.

That fact alone forces us to put a lot more credence into character observations, assessments, and boasting than we would normally consider at face value.

It's why you have so many anime characters yapping endlessly about their powers and capabilities in situations where they should just be shuttin the hell up and fighting...

it really does come down to the storytelling devices used by a manga vs. the storytelling devices used by comics. They're completely different.

I like the dicussion going underway here. Everyone is bringing up good points and things haven't gotten too heated yet.
But the last couple of pages illustrate my point about DBZ characters being walking plot holes and the illogical nature of assuming that DBZ characters are using weaker attacks than they are capable of in a fight just because of the lack of collateral damage...

Points I feel really shouldn't be ignored.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
Absolutely (although in this case it wouldn't be a problem as Frieza ends in both media at the same time), as long as it isn't filler.

I posted a site with the whole manga there if anybody wanted to see for themselves and check up on things.

Will you repost it? It's been ages since I read DBZ.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

What would you give Frieza in this match?

honestly, I'm not as knowledgeable about either character (esp new thanos) as many others in this thread to give an estimate

I will say I feel frieza would lose majority against thanos.

This is where Raditz comes in.

Dragon Ball & Dragon Ball Z

Here's Frieza.

Frieza

Originally posted by Starscream M
honestly, I'm not as knowledgeable about either character (esp new thanos) as many others in this thread to give an estimate

I will say I feel frieza would lose majority against thanos.

Really? I had a feeling...

thumbsup

Awesome. Thank you.

Have a good X-mas C?

Originally posted by jinzin
thumbsup

Awesome. Thank you.

Have a good X-mas C?

Can't complain. I'm my own Santa now and I do the same things I do on Christmas all year round (giving, tithing, etc.). Like I feel it should be. 😛

You?

Originally posted by jinzin
Reposting as I feel it's relivant to the discussion at hand.

I like the dicussion going underway here. Everyone is bringing up good points and things haven't gotten too heated yet.
But the last couple of pages illustrate my point about DBZ characters being walking plot holes and the illogical nature of assuming that DBZ characters are using weaker attacks than they are capable of in a fight just because of the lack of collateral damage...

Points I feel really shouldn't be ignored.

good repost...I enjoyed reading it. I also admire your ability to write posts so long!

I would give frieza a small majority, something like 6/10 but frieza would have to play it smart if he wants to win because one mistake could probably end the fight.

Originally posted by Tha C-Master

Really? I had a feeling...

for me its hard to decide

I def give speed to frieza

I feel like power is about equal

but I feel thanos trumps frieza in durability

now if someone would like to correct any of those notions, pls do 🙂

Starscream is in a good mood today... keep it up.

Originally posted by Starscream M
good repost...I enjoyed reading it. I also admire your ability to write posts so long!
In the Christmas spirit kinda late aren't you 😄

Originally posted by carver9
I would give frieza a small majority, something like 6/10 but frieza would have to play it smart if he wants to win because one mistake could probably end the fight.
yeah, dbz characters durability aren't all that

and frieza is still fairly low on the dbz totem pole. later characters wouldn't even acknowledge frieza's pathetic existence.

He misses Dum Dum Dugan.

Originally posted by Starscream M
good repost...I enjoyed reading it. I also admire your ability to write posts so long!
The other day you said long posts were pointless when you could use scans. 😛

Originally posted by Tha C-Master
The other day you said long posts were pointless when you could use scans. 😛
I said they were useless when the same points have been said over and over...and also remember you were responding to quanchi...we know he won't shift his opinion on thanos 😛

Originally posted by Starscream M
I said they were useless when the same points have been said over and over...and also remember you were responding to quanchi...we know he won't shift his opinion on thanos 😛
Long posts are fun to write, but I think there is a time and place for them and person. I try to avoid doing the mega posts unless it is worth it.

That post was mostly on D_Dude, some was on Quan and Kurupt though. 😛

Originally posted by Starscream M
yeah, dbz characters durability aren't all that

and frieza is still fairly low on the dbz totem pole. later characters wouldn't even acknowledge frieza's pathetic existence.

Why do you think their durability isn't up there? Goku took the worst beat down in comic history and was still willing to fight. No one has ever been through what goku or frieza went through in their one fight. Frieza dn goku fight lasted for about 10 to 15 comics with them tanking off the chain stuff. Hit through moutains, goku hitting frieza with the 20 times kayoken kamehameha wave (rememeber, kayoken times 1 had enough power to shed a planet)... hit by atomic bombs, hit by thousands of high 100 ton punches, and the list goes on. Hell, frieza was also hit by the spirit bomb.

No one has been through what frieza been through in a fight and having the ability to still be alive.

Let's not forget, a planet exploded on frieza as well.

Originally posted by Starscream M
good repost...I enjoyed reading it. I also admire your ability to write posts so long!

Thank you.

Also that last part could be taken the wrong way, but it definitely made me chuckle a little.

Originally posted by carver9
Why do you think their durability isn't up there? Goku took the worst beat down in comic history and was still willing to fight. No one has ever been through what goku or frieza went through in their one fight. Frieza dn goku fight lasted for about 10 to 15 comics with them tanking off the chain stuff. Hit through moutains, goku hitting frieza with the 20 times kayoken kamehameha wave (rememeber, kayoken times 1 had enough power to shed a planet)... hit by atomic bombs, hit by thousands of high 100 ton punches, and the list goes on. Hell, frieza was also hit by the spirit bomb.

No one has been through what frieza been through in a fight and having the ability to still be alive.

They do DBZ fighter logic. "Let me get slightly more powerful instead of just ending it."

Lol.