Originally posted by Impediment
Doesn't a time turner only move through time and not space?
Glad you asked:
The only way time travel will work, as presented, is if you move through time and space. The galaxy is moving through the universe, the galaxy's arms are rotating about the center, the sun is moving within the arm, the earth is moving around the sun, and the earth is rotating.
The only way to move through time by even a few hours is if you also move through space.
That's, of course, mutually exclusive to the fact that time and space are linked through different elements of physics than just 3D location (much more complicated than I care to get into and the fact that I don't fully understand some of those concepts makes it difficult to explain).
So, yes, the time turner, by necessity, has to move the user through time and space so that they end up at the same exact location as when they activated it: a fact that I'm quite sure that JK Rowling did not think of.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
And is Superman habitually doing surprise attacks? Or Hancock?Point. But the fact remains that he did not go from 0-light speed instantly. It took him a few seconds.
And what about it taking him a full two seconds to reach the clouds? Or a full five to reach outer space?
Or this, when Lois dies:
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At 2:54, Superman senses/hears/whatever Lois in trouble. He takes off to find her. He didn't find her until 3:44. It took him almost a full minute. Now, with his super senses and shit, why did it take him so long? Point here is that if a wizard apparates to Afghanistan, Superman can't pinpoint him/her with his senses, go to light speed, and find them instantly.
I agree that there is a disparity, there.
IMO, that was a blood-lusted Superman. He literally did something quite naughty there: he turned back time to create an alternate future that he saw as best (partly for selfish reasons). Just like the Hit Girl hallway scene, Ozy's bullet aim avoidance, and so forth: it was more for dramatic effect than to show him not accelerating to superluminal speeds. What about AFTER he reached the clouds? He went from a very quick hypersonic speed to a speed MANY times faster than that in really short period of time. (I have not measured nor watched the scene: I'm sure you could give me a quick eyeball estimate of how long it takes him from going multiples the speed of sound to multiples of the speed of light) that would be a true testament to his acceleration ability (because accelerating to those speeds WHILE at speed is a giant speed increase.)
Meaning, I think you may not have a good point: measure his time to speed up to those time-changing velocities to get a true measure of his acceleration abilities.
Let me explain it this way: going from multiples the speed of sound to multiples the speed of light are two completely different things: that type of acceleration, even if it took him 2 seconds, is far more than enough acceleration to take out the whole other side in far less than a fraction of a second. Does that make sense? It's hard for me to explain, but it makes sense to me.
Originally posted by dadudemonOh my GOD I lost interest.
I agree that there is a disparity, there.IMO, that was a blood-lusted Superman. He literally did something quite naughty there: he turned back time to create an alternate future that he saw as best (partly for selfish reasons). Just like the Hit Girl hallway scene, Ozy's bullet aim avoidance, and so forth: it was more for dramatic effect than to show him not accelerating to superluminal speeds. What about AFTER he reached the clouds? He went from a very quick hypersonic speed to a speed MANY times faster than that in really short period of time. (I have not measured nor watched the scene: I'm sure you could give me a quick eyeball estimate of how long it takes him from going multiples the speed of sound to multiples of the speed of light) that would be a true testament to his acceleration ability (because accelerating to those speeds WHILE at speed is a giant speed increase.)
Meaning, I think you may not have a good point: measure his time to speed up to those time-changing velocities to get a true measure of his acceleration abilities.
Let me explain it this way: going from multiples the speed of sound to multiples the speed of light are two completely different things: that type of acceleration, even if it took him 2 seconds, is far more than enough acceleration to take out the whole other side in far less than a fraction of a second. Does that make sense? It's hard for me to explain, but it makes sense to me.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
Oh my GOD I lost interest.
I apologize. I have that effect on you, quite often, as I ramble on about boring stuff.
I just think him accelerating, in that very same scene, from a really fast hypersonic speed to multiples of the speed of light, is a far better acceleration feat.
For whatever reason, he didn't use that acceleration ability WHILE inside of the Earth's atmosphere. Maybe he was thinking?
Regardless, as you said, that was definitely as near to blood-lusted as we ever saw Superman.
Originally posted by dadudemonI just think you're overanalyzing.
I apologize. I have that effect on you, quite often, as I ramble on about boring stuff.I just think him accelerating, in that very same scene, from a really fast hypersonic speed to multiples of the speed of light, is a far better acceleration feat.
For whatever reason, he didn't use that acceleration ability WHILE inside of the Earth's atmosphere. Maybe he was thinking?
Regardless, as you said, that was definitely as near to blood-lusted as we ever saw Superman.
Originally posted by dadudemonIt's not that I don't like it. Remember when you read the OP to that thread I made and were like "dude you typed alot?" same thing.
I'm not: what you've done is the same thing I've done except I chose a different portion of the same scene to analyze. You don't like my version because it shows a much better acceleration "vector" than the one you chose to use.
OK, do this, brainiac. Figure out about how high Supes was when his fathers voice was telling him it's forbidden to change human history, count in that it took Supes 5 seconds to reach space, figure out how fast he was going.
Originally posted by Rogue Jedi
OK, do this, brainiac. Figure out about how high Supes was when his fathers voice was telling him it's forbidden to change human history, count in that it took Supes 5 seconds to reach space, figure out how fast he was going.
Why? When we have Returns and it isn't jinxed by 1980's SFX.
Even sticking to Reeve's version, he's fast enough. Once he's in space, he's circling the planet just like that.
Originally posted by Robtard
Why? When we have Returns and it isn't jinxed by 1980's SFX.Even sticking to Reeve's version, he's fast enough. Once he's in space, he's circling the planet just like that.
Originally posted by NemeBro
This. Forever this.Exploiting an obvious SFX limitation at the time is just balls.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Superman's eyesight is vastly superior to that of humans and his phsiology is completely different. What proof do you have that spells designed to affect humans will work on a man who converts the Sun's rays into flight, laserbeam vision and other ways of casually raping physics?
Because spells do usually affect physical properties, instead of metaphysical ones. This is why "Avada Kedavra" kills, without leaving any sign of physical damage for example. That aside: A repelling charm would affect the mind of Superman. Does he have one?
Yes, clearly magical. Not just extremely well trained and intelligent, but obviously magical in nature. 🙄Again your argument seems to suffer from a distinct lack of proof. That seems to be a theme for the Potter-side of this debate.
Apparently, you suffer from a distinct lack of common sense. No owl, no matter how well trained and intelligent, would be capable of finding a target which whereabouts are entirely unknown. Yet, Harry can sent a message to Sirius in "Goblet of Fire", despite the fact that - according to canon - his godfather is on the move, changing the place he is at, while Harry is entirely unaware where Sirius is. So how would Hedwig have found him, without magic? Luck?
In this post:'That aside: Since we've never see a Wizard dying due to blunt force, it stands to reason that it doesn't kill them.'
Or were you advocating diaboli in this case as well? 😬
No. In that case, I was applying your ridiculous "logic" against you.
You have told me that theres a source, which was certianly nice. You have not however, provided one.However, I am more than willing to conceed the point. Now if you'll just prove that theres a similar charm around Hogwarts an that it'll actually effect Superman.....
I have told you, where exactly the proof is to be found. If we were talking about books, would I be in need to provide you an exemplar of every work I mention, so that you could read it? I don't think so. And your acknowledged ignorance to one of the movies you want to discuss here, makes you appear rather stupid as well.
That aside: We know that there is a similar charm around Hogwarts and, unless he's resistant against magic, Superman will be affected by it. End of story.
Avada Kadava? What does that have anything to do with this?
I was pointing out your limited perspective, when attempting to judge "power". We don't know how much power those spells do generate. If we judge by the closing scene of Deathly Hollows, it's pretty much:
Now notice that this is the Elder Wand in the hands of Voldemort, who isn't the rightful master of the object, while Dumbledore - who is the master of the wand - has used the precisely same thing to summon the defensive spells around Hogwarts. I'd say they'd survive power unleashed against them in the split second of Supermans impact against them. Probably better than Superman himself would...
And you seem to be assuming that because it's magic its completely unbrakable with physical attacks. Thats called the 'no-limits fallacy'. Now kindly stop your bitching and prove that it can stop him.Though of course you can't.
You mean like you're inable to proof that Superman can simply move through magical shields? And no. I'm not working from the position of a "no limit fallacy" here. That would be your own position, because you presume that Superman, thanks to speed, can overcome any obstacle in his ways. D'oh. Logic gap exposed.
He will fly into a magic field with unknown properties in terms of effect and power. So "Oh. Superman simply breaks through" doesn't cut it, does it?
Well there was that time he was a baby. And then he was bitten by a Basalisk and only survived because of Pheonix tears. And of course he's been in mortal danger, often seconds from death, and he's never done it once except in the graveyard and on the moterbike, both times coincidentally against Voldemort btw.
Apparently, you have entirely missed my previous postings. Obviously, as with young Harry, at some occassions magic simple acts through a Wizard, to save the Wizards from dangerous situations. Situations like being hunted by superhuman beings. Situations like being confronted with a pretty heavy punch. In fact, the Wizards take all kinds of physical violence that would kill usually beings and walk off with a scratch.
But not apparantly, any other character whose died in the entire mythos. Is this just a thing unique to Harry? He can sometimes but not very often perform feats of magic to automatically defend himself?
Apparently, any form of sarcasm is totally lost on you. I said I'm going to ignore the context. And without context, any Wizard powerful enough is capable of cheating impending death, among them Potter and Dumbledore. And if the latter isn't "blitzed", the team is utterly screwed.
They was not an automatic defence to stop them from death. they were in a duel and they are both extremely powerful wizards. Cedric didn't do it. Sirius didn't do it. There is no auto-defence bullshit.
There is some sort of auto-defense against non-magical damage, especially blunt physical force. Or have you seen any Wizards being killed in the movie by anything but magic? No? That despite the fact that they are in constant danger?
"Hey. Let that 14 year old kid fight against a freaking dragon."
"Sure. We should cheer him a little bit, don't you think so."
He's moving fast and punching! How the fvck are those two mutually incompatable? When in fact moving faster actually increases the force of your punches?
How fast can he move in the situation of the fight?
He's not just flying circles around earth. He's moving in atmosphere (friction and drag should slow him down), and has to move through a magical castle, with a constantly changing architecture. So you think he won't be confused by stairs moving their position, rooms that disappear and secret passages hidden behind pictures that, when one removes the picture, are also gone (see the Fat Lady in "Prisoner of Azkaban"😉.
I think you're taking a little much for granted, even if we - without proof - assume that he will be able to make it into the castle in the first place. That thing is a magical labyrinth.
Uh, ya think? It's not like they can re-grow bones or anything.
Or mend them with minimum effort...
Which is, basically, the case for all kind of injuries save for magical wounds, which the quartet of Superheroes isn't capable of inflicting, correct?
YOu're lecturing me on providing proof? Excuse me while I reattach my head and conquer the chuckles so I may provide you with one:
Wow. Thanks for providing proof that the Superman scriptwriters don't care about physics. And also thanks for proving that he's capable of moving fast in outer space. This translates into similary fast movements through buildings featuring the above mentioned properties how exactly? Oh. It doesn't? So what exactly does that video prove?
They're children. Being able to cause them any amount of pain without actually doing anything to them is easily enough to subdue them.
You must be have been a little girl pretty soft willed child if some little pain would subdue you. I think it was a little more pain, and I also think - with some reason - that Voldemort did grow stronger in magic due to sixty years of training in the art than he was as an 11 year old child. So I can see enough pain happening to stop the quartet, or at least Superman and Hancock, since the other two freaks are only good for target practice anyway.
He was barely above the cloud-line. 😬 How much more sun would he have been getting than regularly?
Since you find it reasonable to turn back time by reversing rotation of the Earth, I don't see any use in lecturing you about the properties of our atmosphere and sunlight.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Harry Potter was too 'good' for Voldemort to possess. What do you think attempting it on Superman's going to accomplish?
Thanks for exhibiting your lack of knowledge once again. Harry wasn't "too good" for Voldemort to possess. He just felt too much love, forcing Voldemort - who can't stand that feeling - out of his mind. Do you think the same would occur, when Voldemort tries this on a bloodlusted Superman? I don't think so.
How long does it take to call a dementor?
Since they can apparate, this works instantly. But in our special case, one would be at the school, since the opening post mentions "after GoF" but has all people inside the school at the same time. And those aren't present at the end of the movie any more, just after Harry returns and Crouch jr. is unmasked. So...
That aside: The foe-glasses of "Mad Eye" are inside the castle, offering the Wizards previous knowledge of the attack. Anything enough to get to a time-turner would be enough to extend the prep-time to "limitless", meaning the quartet will spontaneously be confronted with a kryptonite covered castle, guarded by Dementors and other unpleasant magical creatures (Nundu anybody?), with all stones on the outer walls have been turned into portkeys to very unpleasant places.
Wizards win.