Originally posted by GrieverSquall
No. I conceded the point because TheScenario posted evidence for Link's strength, and that is what I needed.
Yeah, I know. It's just kind of funny that you didn't see his strength when he lifted the pillar, instead of when he broke it against the wall. I was just talking about the striking aspect of your argument. steel is better than stone. He cut through it.
Originally posted by The Scenario
That'd be the Like Like.
yeah, the Like Like. I haven't actually played OoT in a few years. After awhile, I tend to forget all the details. I didn't feel like searching for the name though. thanks
Originally posted by Super Marie 64
[b]How reliable is your source? How extensive is his knowledge in magic? [/B]
Pretty good I guess. Hang on a sec, and I'll have him get on here. Ask him yourself. He said Magic is doing the impossible, that's pretty much what magic is... That's why it's called magic. I don't see how it can be calculated every time when people don't understand how it even works. It's Magic. 😕
edit: nvm... he won't answer the phone.
I sleep for a few hours to wake up and find this thread is still pestering me. I hate all of you.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Lloyd doesn't need strength feats. If a Skultulla can hurt Link then Lloyd can. I've already admitted that Link has higher strength, but that doesn't give him the fight. Nor do Deku Nuts. Lloyd still has much higher speed and agility. And it might be debatable that he can fly (He does it at the end). Plus, he defeated Kratos, which is an amazing feat in itself.
Lloyd does have to deal with the weapons in hand, like his sword and sheild. A sheild which survives boulders falling on it like a champ. That sheild is not being broken by Lloyd. And Link defeated Ganondorf, which at the moment is more impressive.
Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
Yeah, I know. It's just kind of funny that you didn't see his strength when he lifted the pillar, instead of when he broke it against the wall. I was just talking about the striking aspect of your argument. steel is better than stone. He cut through it.
I admitted he was strong. I wasn't 100% sure at to what extent though. But yeah, I conceded the argument. It would have been better to provide that video when I firstly asked for it, you know, to save several pages of discussion.
😬
Because I'm actually getting paid to do this....
Can someone scientifically or mathematically explain how that is possible?
Originally posted by linkownsyousobs
Pretty good I guess. Hang on a sec, and I'll have him get on here. Ask him yourself. He said Magic is doing the impossible, that's pretty much what magic is... That's why it's called [b]magic. I don't see how it can be calculated every time when people don't understand how it even works. It's Magic. 😕edit: nvm... he won't answer the phone. [/B]
Actually, the word magic originate from the word magus, or magi, which were priests in a priest order in ancient Persia. They didn't do the impossible, they just had very much influence and an authorative religious position, so the word doesn't mean impossible.
It was later used to describe ones ability to foretell the weather (Today they are called weather forecasters), again not impossible.
Then came witchcraft, which root in herbs and alchemy (Again, not impossible).
It's only in recent times that people have come to think of magic as something impossible, because we have a very wild imagination and the moment someone says magic, we think of teleportation and other stuff that we believe impossible.
In short, "magic" doesn't mean impossible (It more or less means mysterious), and even if it did, impossible doesn't mean incalculable. So don't come here flaunting with definitions.
A spell cast by a magician exist, and is therefore constructed in some manner. If it exist, it has a structure, and anything with a structure can be calculated.
And just because it's not natural, just because it's magic, doesn't mean you don't understand how it works. Numerous fictional verses go deep into description on how to weave magic.
Although in the end, your point is the point I've been making all along. We don't have the numbers. That, however, DOESN'T mean there aren't any.
We don't know how many stars there are in our universe, that doesn't mean they aren't there. Don't praise human intelligence, we're idiots.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Now, when you make the argument that the Tallon Crab (Metroid Prime) can harm Samus, you're essentially saying that the crab (which is, incidentally, smaller than your hand) is stronger than a Space Pirate scythe (no damage in cutscenes), being thrown into a wall (also no damage) or the various explosions Samus faces regularly, again with no damage.That is the part I have issue with. Actually, forget the crab, there's a better example. I brought up a space pirate scythe being completely unable to damage Samus in cutscene. This same pirate scythe, in gameplay, can suddenly do damage. How would you explain this anomaly? The same thing is simultaneously able and unable to cause damage, with the one unable being in cutscene.
I haven't played too many Metroid games. Do you have any videos?
Originally posted by The Scenario
0:20. Same exact thing. King Bulblin's axe knocks Link off his feet in cutscene, with no visible damage, yet in gameplay that same attack deals a whopping three hearts. What can you even say about that? There was evidence, right there, of Link being unharmed by a powerful attack. Hell, it knocked the boar out cold, but does nothing to Link. Yet when you get to gameplay, suddenly these attacks hurt.What will you follow, cutscenes or gameplay?
1.) That is Twilight Princess Link.
2.) It does hurt him, if you hear, he yelps in pain.
3.) By your logic, that ax should have shattered on contact with Link's skin.
Originally posted by The Scenario
'k, I'm going to need some evidence that Link's fighting to survive. You yourself say the enemies are weak, so it's seems more like they're just speedbumps for Link while he takes out the trash. Yeah, they didn't make Link invincible, but cutscene evidence proves that he's too durable for these little monsters to hurt.
No, cutscenes don't. They only do if you over analyze or try to math them.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying here. I don't actually think these enemies are strong at all, the super strong thing is just to prove a point. Namely, that evidence still shows that Link is too durable for the enemies as they are shown to hurt. They can't hurt him, and if they could they'd be super strong. Cutscenes show Link as being too durable for them, and gameplay damage means nothing.
So you don't think the enemies can hurt Link? So you ARE going with the assumption that the developers created completely worthless enemies that were never meant to actually cause Link and danger? The developers actually WANTED a character who was never in any actual danger at any point in his quest?
Originally posted by The Scenario
The thing now is that you're assuming Link blocks attacks. Link only gets the shield because others encourage him to, really. Again, gameplay. The gameplay damage is still outright stated to be Link getting weary as he fights, it doesn't even have to be a result of getting hit. Link could just use the shield so he can balance out the sword, and once you get the Biggoron Sword, you don't even need the shield.
You are going to need more than an unclear wording of a fairy to prove that Link simply takes a nap when you get a game over.
Actually, when a character fights with a sword and shield, the logical assumption to make is that he uses the shield. Not that he carries it around cause he thinks it looks pretty.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Please, hiding? I'm just using the mechanics as they are described in the game itself. The hearts are stated to represent Link's energy level, and how exhausting combat is. If Link loses all the hearts, he becomes too weary to fight anyone. Fairies and potions only restore Link's strength to keep fighting, nothing else.
Prove that. Prove that when Link grunts and slumps to the floor he isn't dead, but simply tired and taking a quick snooze. As if that, for some reason, means that you fail. That is one of the most ridiculous claims I think I've heard yet.
Originally posted by The Scenario
Hmm. I suppose that is a poor assumption. Good thing I'm not the one making it, then, eh? Link isn't invincible, he's just beyond your average Zelda enemy's ability to meaningfully hurt. Ganondorf can demonstratably hurt him and affect him, as could Bongo Bongo, in cutscene. The developers simply let the enemies serve to tire Link out as he fights, so that he has to rest occasionally. That's the canon statements.
That's the canon statements? You mean the one quote from a fairy that can be taken either way? This is getting far beyond ridiculous at this point. So again, according to you, Link is not, at any point in his entire quest except Bonga Bonga and Ganon in any danger what so ever?
Originally posted by The Scenario
And I'm sure there's evidence to such. As I said, certain beings have been shown to be able to hurt or otherwise affect Link for a little while, but cutscene evidence definitively shows Link to be too tough for the average enemy.
It doesn't show that his skin is harder than diamond.
Originally posted by The Scenario
I thought we were just debating Link's ability to be hurt by his own enemies, but okay. What can Lloyd even do about a Deku Nut? If he doesn't know what it is, he doesn't really have a chance to avoid the effect.
Normally I don't like trying to presuppose a characters actions in a fight. He is still much faster and more agile than Link is, so he could probably get a fair distance away while his vision clears.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I sleep for a few hours to wake up and find this thread is still pestering me. I hate all of you.Lloyd does have to deal with the weapons in hand, like his sword and sheild. A sheild which survives boulders falling on it like a champ. That sheild is not being broken by Lloyd. And Link defeated Ganondorf, which at the moment is more impressive.
Believe me, I'm not having a picnic here either. I'm now having to contend with the argument that Link falls alseep on his game over screen.
His shield I fully agree is hard enough to block a sword. His skin is not. Anyway, Kratos also fights with a sword and shield combo and does so more effectively than Link, I would imagine and Lloyd defeated him by himself. So the shield certainly doesn't give it to him.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Believe me, I'm not having a picnic here either. I'm now having to contend with the argument that Link falls alseep on his game over screen.His shield I fully agree is hard enough to block a sword. His skin is not. Anyway, Kratos also fights with a sword and shield combo and does so more effectively than Link, I would imagine and Lloyd defeated him by himself. So the shield certainly doesn't give it to him.
I don't really care tbh.
Proof that Kratos is better with a sword and shield combo?
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
I don't really care tbh.
Yes you do. Deep down.
Originally posted by TheAuraAngel
Proof that Kratos is better with a sword and shield combo?
Kratos is a master swords man who has been training with the sword for about 4 thousand years, I think.
Link is a new swordsman who is pretty much self taught.
Not to mention the fact that Kratos can fly, and has powerful magic spells.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Yes you do. Deep down.Kratos is a master swords man who has been training with the sword for about 4 thousand years, I think.
Link is a new swordsman who is pretty much self taught.
Not to mention the fact that Kratos can fly, and has powerful magic spells.
Albert Einstein said that his greatest obstacle in evolving, was his education. Being self taught doesn't equal being less able.
That aside, you're here saying that Kratos is better at sword than anyone younger than him? That his age is the reason for his prosperity?
Originally posted by Super Marie 64
[b]Albert Einstein said that his greatest obstacle in evolving, was his education. Being self taught doesn't equal being less able.That aside, you're here saying that Kratos is better at sword than anyone younger than him? That his age is the reason for his prosperity?
[/B]
The time he has to train.
I never said those who are self taught are weaker. Lloyd started off self taught too. But between a master swordsman who has had 4000 years to train and develop his skills with the sword, and someone who has just picked it up, I'm going with the 4000 year old master swordsman.
That, and the fact that he can fly and has powerful magic.
I thought Kratos became more or less invulnerable, though. Someone who without effort can slaughter the battlefield without the disability of mortality isn't necessarily training day in and day out. He has no reason to do so.
If you have a source for this training, however, that makes it a different story.
Originally posted by Super Marie 64
[b]I thought Kratos became more or less invulnerable, though. Someone who without effort can slaughter the battlefield without the disability of mortality isn't necessarily training day in and day out. He has no reason to do so.If you have a source for this training, however, that makes it a different story.
[/B]
Invulnerable? No. But if he was that would be a pretty good feat for Lloyd. 🙂
His ex-sphere allows his body to stay young and gives him a lot of power, but he wasn't invulnerable.
Originally posted by TacDavey
Kratos is a master swords man who has been training with the sword for about 4 thousand years, I think.Link is a new swordsman who is pretty much self taught.
Not to mention the fact that Kratos can fly, and has powerful magic spells.
Experience does not necessarily mean better.
Flight is a factor that Lloyd does have over Link, though it's not like Link has never fought a flying enemy before. Kratos and his powerful magic sound interesting though. Do want showings of Lloyd survivng magic if there are any.
So, the 4000 year old super sword fighter got owned by a self taught kid. mmm And you claim he's > Link, a self taught swordsman with the shown capability to master weaponry very quickly, based on his age alone? I lol'd.
Also, stop denying cutscenes and evidence just because you don't like them, Tac. Without a strength feat Lloyd cannot hurt Link.